ARE SUPER EXPENSIVE STREAMERS REALLY WORTH IT

If a decent but not considered high end streamer ouputs via I2S and is connected to an accepted excellent DAC which accepts I2S, is then compared to a top end streamer connected to the same DAC but via USB lets say. Is the outcome a slam dunk to the expensive streamer. I understood that I2S properly implemented all but elliminates the possiblity of timing errors, so if as is being said the whole raison d’etre of high end streamers is to provide a clean signal to the DAC so it doesnt have to work as hard and this results in a better audio signal, I2S should win this contest or?

I would expect a better streamer using a non-i2S connection to sound better than a cheaper streamer using i2S because there’s a lot more to it than just the connection type. I don’t think i2S has as much to do with timing but more to do with the DAC not having to unpack the clocks/data from the combined signal transmitted by other connection types, but I guess timing could be tied into that somehow but I don’t know. Mojo Audio brings up a good point that any i2S cable should be as short as possible (1 foot or less is preferable) because the signal will degrade rapidly with cable length potentially overriding the benefits of i2S, and it also depends greatly on which input(s) the DAC designer put the most effort into sounding best so there are significant variables here and trial and error may be your best option here (unless the DAC designer says one particular input is preferable and then probably best to just go with that). That said, i2S seems less sensitive to cable quality than usual, and I use this cheap 12” HDMI cable from Monoprice and am getting excellent results. I’ll try a better HDMI cable (probably from DH Labs) at some point just out of curiosity, but my results are so good as is I’m not in any rush.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24187

The bottom line is there are many variables when it comes to DAC performance and connection type is only one. Personally I’d take a better DAC that has optimized a given input over a lesser DAC with i2S, but in my case my R2R DAC only cost $1100 and maybe that’s why i2S was better than the other inputs. I don’t know but am just following what my ears are telling me, and since almost every situation — between individual tastes/preferences and differences in equipment design — is different, following your ears as usual should be the final arbiter.

@nubiann Let's try this a different way. The only base caveat being is that the room and equipment need to be all that or close enough.

Many have done this. I did. 

1.) Mac book or Computer w/ generic wire into AMP or integrated.

2.) BlueSound w/ generic wire into AMP or integrated.

3.) BlueSound w/ generic wire into AMP or integrated with upgraded power supply and wire

3.A) Better wire

4.) All in one Streamer/DAC ($) into.....

5.) Better ($$) Streamer/DAC or separates and DAC into ....

6.) Filtered ethernet(Network Acoustics or the like) and audio or enterprise switch with very good wire/connects

7.) Better Streamer/DAC ($$$) or separates and DAC into...

8.) All the bells and whistles ($$$$) for a bit more nuance. Only for the best of the best resolving systems.

So yes, OP as long as the everything's jake, then a top tier streamer and great DAC or a super duper all in one is copacetic.

Chasing down how to get amazing sounding "digital" has a leaning curve and thanks to many here on Agon who are far more knowable than little 'ole me; I believe I now have a digital system that allows hours of pleasure with no fatigue. Got to go....time for my sound bath.

So there seems to be a lot of discussion about I2S vs usb here. I have my own experience which favors I2S but not going to extrapolate this is universal for all setups. I2S does have inherent advantages in that it is native signal path in dacs, it separates data from clock, a lone possible disadvantage is an external clock may be used vs internal dac clock, the theoretically better placement of clock is closest to signal path. So I have the choice to use the external OXCO clock in my Gaia DDC vs internal clocks in my dacs, both Femto, in other words I can sync or unsync clocks, in both cases the external OXCO clock in Gaia provides better sound quality than local clocks (this using 1/2M Tubulus Ximius I2S cable).

So for those who claim none of this is an inherent advantage of I2S, is it an inherent advantage to send signal on detour through usb boards of who knows what quality, only then to convert back to I2S? Is it an advantage to require the dac to separate clock from data?

Not saying usb can't sound good, I used it for at least a decade without complaint, only recently did I discover the I2S setup beat it. And over that decade I've used all manner of streamers with various usb implementation, tweaks and isolation of usb, very nice usb cables, dacs with some very nice usb boards including custom implementations. I2S belongs in the category of less is more which some seem to espouse, point being why do needless conversions.Not going to argue this point as I sometimes experience more is more such as optical conversion.

All in all, I'd take the battle of I2S vs usb on a case by case basis, optimize both and report back, actual experience counts for more than second hand repetition of some other person's experience.

With SPDIF and I2S, the source controls the master clock. With asynchronous USB, the destination controls the master clock. As such, the quality of result with SPDIF and I2S is primarily dictated by the source implementation and vice versa with USB. This distinction is important.

It has been demonstrated through independent, objective testing (Golden Sound, L7 Audio, etc.) and supported by followup listening that DACs that provide USB implementation that feature galvanic isolation and high quality clocks (e.g. Holo Audio) effectively eliminate noise and any jitter falls well below the audible threshold. This holds constant even from noisy sources, with no observable benefit from either switching to I2S, and inserting an expensive external DDC into the USB connection actually degraded performance.

A streamer brings the convenience of a single box that also includes an internal DAC. Alternatively, using an external DAC with a high level of USB performance opens the door to streaming from a computer based platform like HQPlayer ($300 USD), which enables high upsampling rates, PCM->DSD conversion, and a wealth of filters and modulators that offer measurable and audible advantages, all of which that lie well beyond the computing power of a streamer.

Whenever one purchases something super expensive and decides to keep it, that pretty much indicates it was deemed "worth it". Unless of course one is simply stuck with the purchase.

Now what happens a year or two later? Keep or sell for a loss? That’s the interesting part.

If you can sell without taking a loss....G-d Bless! How often does that really happen though for things bought new?