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Needing DAC Advice

My main, current system is a Schiit Urd through a Benchmark DAC3 B through a Schiit Freya+ (running in passive mode exclusively - I haven't even tried the tube output), to Pass Labs X150's to Martin Logan SL3's (and a couple of rythmik subs).

When I 'listen' to music, I listen to CD's or vinyl. I don't stream - too many places for signal compromise in the streaming chain for my tastes and, more importantly, I'm vehemently opposed to paying a provider who profits by paying artists virtually nothing for their content. When I can, I buy physical media directly from the artists I want to hear. 

A brief description of my pathway to here: the best-sounding system (for me) I've ever had was a modded Wadia 831 direct to a Pass Lab amp to ML's. (I'm a less is more adherent). I replaced the Wadia, as it was getting long in the tooth and I was worried about service, with an Oppo BDP105, then a modded 105D, again, directly driving the amps. Decent, but not the magic of the Wadia.

Which brings me to today - a transport and DAC. After much research, I went with the URD (because of the transport) through the Benchmark .I added the Freya+ in case I want to add vinyl to this system and the fact that the Freya is a 3-in-1 preamp. (I've got another, tube-based system for vinyl).

And here's the issue. The system is not a terribly musical-sounding set up. It 'sounds' very good: great detail, fast, big soundstage, blah, blah, blah...All those adjectives we regularly throw around. It's very 'there'! Sounds better than with the Oppo. But it is not...engaging? No soul?

I'm thinking it's the DAC. Maybe I'm just might not be a fan of Sabre or DS in general. Maybe I need try an R2R DAC. So, I started looking: Border Patrol, Denefripes, Mojo Audio, MHDT Orchid, HoloAudio, Lab 12, or even the Schiit Yggy.. Some of these add tubes which I'm not sure I want to do unless they can be bypassed (much as I love tubes, I'm not sure a DAC is the right place to use them.) Finally, before I go down the DAC rabbit hole, I will give the Freya tube output some serious listening, just in case tubes are the missing link. Otherwise, my questions are do you think that R2R is directionally correct and, if so, what suggestions/recommendations might you have? Thanks and I apologize for the length but I'm well aware that more detail I can provide upfront, the more useful your responses are likely to be.

128x128trn
trn's avatar
trn OP
9 posts
 

(Took the week off to do a little skiing...)

Thanks for all the input, much appreciated. To update, I just replaced the preamp-amp interconnects from Signal Silver Resolution to Mogami 2549 Y cables, added a second Pass X150 amp, and vertically bi-amped the SL3's with Canare 4S11 (from Analysis Plus Ovals).

I apologize for the scientific methodological faux pas of changing more than one variable at a time but I'm too old to crawl around making connections multiple times. I'd been planning for this change long before I started questioning the Benchmark DAC.

Result? More. Of everything. Full spectrum improvement and way smoother, very musical. Bass and mid-bass are amazing (I need to dial in my subs: they're too much now), sounds like the bass player is set up in a corner of the room. Highs are maybe a tad rolled off but all there (or maybe just shaded by the fullness in the mids - I need to listen to this for awhile to decide). Not to exaggerate, but the system sounds fundamentally, profoundly different. The Mrs noticed; she's a music lover but not a critical listener. 

This is still with the Freya in passive mode. So the only changes were to add more power (bi-amping) and changing speaker cables and interconnects. I'm not a believer in cable magic so I'm hesitant to give those changes much credit. Which I guess means the extra headroom is the difference maker. 

Bottom line, I don't have a problem with the Benchmark DAC, at the moment. (I was really leaning toward trying an R2R or one of Schiit''s DACs (reasoning that there has to be some synergies between the Urd cdt and their DACs - as an engineer, that's the way I'd do it.) But now I don't notice the DAC and I'm pretty sure I did before.

I'll spend some time with the system like this. Then maybe I'll do as others have suggested and try the preamp modes I have.

 

brbrock's avatar
brbrock
63 posts
 

@jk_richards Are you working on mods for the MK2.  It seems like it would be a good thing as long as the mods didn't interfere with the software upgrades but if you strictly upgraded hardware I don't see how it would affect it. 

kennyc
1,570 posts
 

But it is not...engaging? No soul?

This is tough to nail down as it’s highly subjective on where to stop relative to affordability.

@trn - as you’ve discovered, it’s the whole audio chain that matters.  A better preamp and/or amp might move you in the right direction.  Lower costs DACs may measure well and give excellent detail, but iirc it’s the analog output design that’s key to better engagement.

Here’s a list of notable positive reviewed DACs:

  • 2.3 Doge 7 MkII tube DAC              
  • 2.6 Ferrum Wandla - HR competes w 10k DACs  +1.2 HYPSOS power supply 
  • 2.7 LAiV Harmony DAC
  • 3.0 Musician Aquarius - sounds like a $5k DAC
  • 4.3 Denafrips Terminator  [BNC in                                                                               
  • 4.0 Linear Tube Audio Aero DAC
  • 4.5 Wired4Sound DAC-2v2SE                    
  • 5.0 Audio-GD R7HE MK2                               
  • 5.6 Kitsune Hifi May-KTE.                           
  • 6.6 Lampizator Baltic 4 (punches way above price point- beats KTE).                  
  • 6.8 Bel Canto Ex1 DAC (Transparent)                    
  • 7.1 T+A DAC200
westcoastaudiophile
325 posts
 
@classicrockfan "you don't want to spend more than 1k for a Chinese DAC. These Chinese DACs outperform most US/European made units that cost 10x more. “ my last Gustard DAC is A22, which is an excellent implementation of Akamai Tech. DAC chip design! excellent quality/performance PCB, components etc.. why price downgrade?
rmdvp
2 posts
 

When you say 'Im not a believer in cable magic', I look at cables as another piece of equipment. not unlike a new amp or transport, none of which are magical, they simply add a new character to the sound, preferably a better sound, or swap it out for another, when going down the long road of being a audiophile, 

Im guessing another phase for magic, could be a bigger well defined soundstage,  holography, three dimensional. has soul, whatever vernacular you wish to apply, cables, like tubes, can add a greater since of the above and are analogs to any other piece of equipment in your system that makes a difference, nothing necessarily magic about any single piece of equipment, cumulatively this is where you find the alluring and addictive synergy.

As it has been stated many times, when getting 'new' equipment, all of us think we have made a mistake, sounds flat, dull, until we take the time needed to break-in the piece of equipment, parenthetically cables are especially sensitive to this break-in period

Even when knowing this break-in period is required, still painful process, I just bought a new DAC from Weiss audio, talked with Daniel Weiss about this break-in period, he told me only takes 24 hours, he was just about spot on, I had to be patient, I recall my NBS black label cables took over 100 hours of break-in, not fun when paying these high prices, thinking that it was a mistake, up until the 'wizardry' starts to happen

 

 

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