upgrade question regarding DAC and streamer


I want to improve my system's imaging after having carefully placed my speakers and done some room treatment to reduce reflections.

My system includes a McIntosh MA8950 integrated amplifier, Sonus faber Olympica Nova III speakers, a Silent Angel Bonn 8 network switch and its LPU, and an Innuos Zen Mini Mark III with its LPU. I use the Mini with its Sense app to stream Qobuz to the McIntosh's DA2 DAC.

I am considering a DAC+streamer such as the MSB Discrete (with render/streamer add-on, and its separate single LPU) and the dCS Lina (with built-in power supply). My budget is about 15K.

In the future, I will get a separate preamp and amp, perhaps using the MA8950 as the preamp for a while.

The dealer with whom I have a great relationship carries MSB, dCS, and Innuos (their Stream3 may also be a good option when it comes out). Of course, I will listen to the DAC+streamer options with the same/similar integrated amp and speakers at the dealer's.

For the purpose of improving imaging with my system/room/good speaker placement, does upgrading the DAC and streamer make sense, or should I upgrade to separates first? Or something else?

jrdavisphd

@jrdavisphd     I think others have given good advice--your streamer is not likely to be the problem. 

I would want to know what you're seeking when you say "imaging."  More pinpoint focus, perhaps?  I don't think real, live music sounds like that, but some audiophiles want that anyway.  Are the images your system produces larger or smaller than the real instruments?  Answers to those questions might yield more useful directions.

I think speakers and the room contribute a lot to imaging.  I'm not familiar with your speakers.  If your room is too reflective or asymmetrical, that can screw up imaging and require room treatments or different speakers for improvement.

OP

 As one of the posters had posted the Pre-amp seems to play a significant Role.

you have done quite well for the room treatment and that is the most important part for the imaging you are going for. The dcs Lina and streamer combo is very good

You will hear the changes distinctively. 

Your speaker is top notch and so is your amp. if you think/hear your speaker amp combo is working with good synergy, then an external pre-amp may help improve it. OR you may then spring for a complete separate. Then at that time, I would recommend the gryphon family. I heard it in separate occasions, and I have to say, it is a level of its own

good luck

Very thoughtful and well posed question.  Very nice system--the system detail in your ask really helps.  Myself and all my friends in the hobby with systems at this level are all using separate DACs and streamers.  I would advise the same and not get a combo unit. 

Your DAC is a weak link so I would start there.  Get the best DAC you can and use the onboard clock.  The improved clocking will greatly enhance your imaging. The next step would be to upgrade your streamer which will improve the imaging further.  Good luck and cheers.  

I have a Macintosh MA 8950 paired with Dynaudio Heritage Special speakers. I owned a BlueSound Node 2i streaming Tidal into the Mac DAC, the DA2 module. After a few years, I was looking to upgrade in search of better sound, decided the weak link was my streamer so I bought the Innuos Pulse, retails around 3200. When I added that piece, I didn’t hear an immediate improvement instead I thought things sounded less integrated (for lack of a better way to describe it). I then auditioned the Aurender N200 and liked it very much but wasn’t prepared to spend $6000 for it.  Also, some research told me that the DA2 module DAC in the Macintosh might now be the “weak link’”. I started auditioning external DACs, the Lab12 and the SPL, average between the two is about 3k.  Each of these DACs made it clear that better sound stage, separation, depth, nuance could be obtained through a different DAC. Then my dealer got the Hegel D50 DAC into the store (4,900). I took that home, auditioned it and found it to be better than the other two DACs that I had tried.  I bought that DAC.  My system sounds great.  What I said to my dealer after this process is….You don’t know what you don’t know until you know it. That is the revelation that I had improving these pieces in my system.  I always thought the Macintosh/BlueSound sounded great and was skeptical that I could improve it at all but knowing my streamer was $600, I thought spending more money would make an improvement. So in the end, $8k later, my system sounds great.  I hope this helps in some way, just from someone who owns the same McIntosh amplifier. 

I would consider a Grimm MU2 as a DAC and streamer combo that has spectacular imaging. As a bonus you get a really good analog preamp with line level input.