MoFi enzyme based cleaner and pure rinse

I'm with Sonofjim on this one. Find a good first step cleaner and follow it with the highest quality water you can find. As far as I'm concerned it's more important that the first step be surfactant based than enzyme based unless you're cleaning records that are covered in mold or cockroach remnants (and I've cleaned records that pretty much fit this description with Mo Fi Super Deep-formerly RRL-and ultrapure water with steaming integrated into the process and they have cleaned up flawlessly).

My thought on the rise of enzyme based cleaners is this: there are so many variables out there with respect to cleaning regimens that it is very difficult to attribute what is doing what. For example, with the enzyme based cleaners it is almost universally recommended that the cleaner be left sitting for a longer period on the record before being vacuumed off. What's to say that doing the the same thing with a surfactant based cleaner would not result in a much cleaner record? Or that simply cleaning a record for a 2nd time isn't going to result in a cleaner record with a particularly dirty record?

What I find interesting is that the rise of the enzyme based cleaner was accompanied by the introduction of ultrapure water as the final stage, with the exception of Walker's new product which supposedly uses ultrapure with trace amounts of alcohol as the final stage.

Frankly, I've been using ultrapure for the past few years as it's available to me at no cost through my wife who works at a research facility. Mark me down as one person (and there are others who have posted here such as Doug Deacon) who has found that the Mo Fi (or RRL) Super Vinyl Wash definitely did leave a sonic signature when used as the final stage in cleaning. In fact, when compared to ultrapure as the final stage of cleaning, I haven't used any cleaning product (ie. home brew, Nitty Gritty fluid or the RRL SVW) that did not leave a significant sonic signature or result in a less clean record than using ultrapure as the final step.

I still like the Mo Fi Super Deep and use it regularly. But color me skeptical-my opinion is that much of the effectiveness of any of the popular vinyl cleaners of the moment can be attached to the use of ultrapure water as the final stage of cleaning (it is on its own a highly effective cleaning agent) and rinsing.

I also think it's foolish for audiophiles to be paying the prices that they are for ultrapure when type 1 reagent grade water or ultrapure is easily available at quite reasonable prices if you do a bit of searching. And I am not one to advocate the use of simple store bought distilled or RO water; as far as I'm concerned the quality of water used is extremely important in the cleaning result. It's just that it's not really necessary to pay $64 a gallon for it.

Absolutely no consensus here!

Absolutely, there never is. Let me add Walker Audio Prelude. Which of the four steps is vital from the enzyme to the Step IV I don't know but the cleaned records have virtually no noise and sound much better than the four other systems I have used.

Chashmal,
Do Mobile Fidelity offer any kind of refund if not totally satisfied with their record cleaning products?

While I'm asking this question, are you aware of any other brand's on the market that offer a full money back guaranty if not totally satisfied with the result's of their record cleaning solution's?

Last year while at a audio store ,out of pure curisosity I bought and tried out Walker Audio's Prelude deluxe record cleaning kit.
I was made fully aware if I didn't care for it, return it with in 30 day's for a full refund.

My thoughts were, here's a record cleaning method put out by Lloyd Walker, the man behind the Proscenium table.
Hmm?
On top of it Lloyd offers a full refund if not satisfied.

If Walker's cleaning method equaled or slightly edged out what I was using at the time which was Disc Doctor, I would of certainly returned the prelude kit for that price.

However, as it turned out Lloyd Walker's method of cleaning and recipe of solutions are very effective with astonishing result's.

I have absolutely nothing to gain promoting this product, all that I know is that it work's.

I would suggest going to Walker's web site and read what he has to say about his record cleaning method.

Many of the folks here, I myself included, and as well, as folks on other forums, we have perhaps tried this, or that, or maybe a few different cleaning products, rinsing products, and/or different techniques as well.

It would probably be a rare instance indeed, where a number of member can come forward, and say they have tried every single product on the market, past, and present, to make fair, and accurate analysis/judgement of what products superceed/best others. And what others fall short, and how they fall short.

And I would probably be 100% correct that even in this hypothetical scenario, that there was a sufficient number of prople who have, how many then have used accurate methods "laboratory methods of such testing?
Answer most likely is zero.

Basically all of us end users have to go by, is what our ears, and eyes tell us. Although the human eye, and ear can reveal a lot, none of most likely have electron microscopes in our arsenal, or any other type of lab measuring equipment.

We go by what others say, go by what manufacturers tell us, or profess thier products do, and I'm not going to profess to snake oil products, because none of the very well known products available on the market (Mo Fi, VPI L'Art Du Son, Nitty Gritty, LAST, Disc Doctor, AIVS, Walker, Premier, Phoenix, and others) can be called "snake oil".

It might more actually come down to a "lure", and who might possibly have the best BS story-advertisment yarn to tell? Sort of like Car Manufacturers with thier slogans, and little jingles, thus trying to suck you into a purchase.

Part of the problem I see with many of the cleaners available, is the end user has absolutely no idea what they contain, the purity of thier contents, the actual effectiveness, and safe vinyl use they purport.

Of course we certainly cannot expect companies to give away proprietary formulas. But still, it would be nice at least knowing the basic contents.

I guess the bottom line is, always has, and always perhaps will be, is to use what you like, and what you like paying for. What works for Joe, Jim, and Mike, might not be best suited for somebody else.

This also holds true with any rinsing agents- purified waters.
Without provided Lab Analysis of gases, solids, methods of purification, we are only again "guessing" that Reagent Grade is as good as this, or Mo-Fi Pure is better than that, etc.

I of course like the products I currently use, which is AIVS, but no matter what brands I use, I myself cannot accurately, or truthfully make claims that such a product is better, or worse than another which I have not tried. Mark