CD's vs Vinyl - Finally hear the difference

Plato, I feel sorry for you in away but it you won't be the last to feel the way you do and that's okay.

I have listened to allot of systems in the past and present and found most with vinyl either it's the associated pces or just don't have them set-up properly and I prefered my red-book set-up by far, what can I say they just didn't have it happening. As per my earlier post above the first table I got was okay but I still preferred my red-book as a whole but once I got my second table well that was a whole different story.

I went and heard a members set-up today who has 4 tables and Red-Book player and reading his numerous threads was really expecting to hear something special but in the end I was left scratching my head because it was far from being so, now I know. First of all the set-up was out of phase, once we got that sorted out listening I found the speakers were so far from being coherent was left wondering how one can make any comparisons etc.

Plato when you said "The one you prefer will always depend on which one your system is optimized for."

I don't agree with that statement, from my experience anyone preferring Red-Book just hasn't heard a proper vinyl set-up.

I agree with Syntax and Rodman.
What I also don't discount, is that there are certain people who hear the distortions in digital in a way that may not offend other people?
I'm not saying these people can hear 'better'......simply that their hearing receptacles may be wired slightly differently.
It is simply impossible for me to sit through more than an hour of serious listening to digital reproduction.......and I don't care how much money you throw at it :^)

Dev, the OP's statements about the unconditional superiority of vinyl invited controversy. Digital technology has marched foward with increasing over-lap in quality with analog front ends, particularly as experienced in the broad middle of the hobby. It's unfortunate that so many superlatives have historically been heaped on what was in reality slow, incremental progress in RBCD playback. This legacy obscures the point that in some implementations at least, the technology has recently been moving faster: reduced jitter affects, much less synthetic sounding, closer to the realism of vinyl, and above all, astonishingly far from presumed limitations.

One thing that gets tiresome is attempts by vinyl esthetes to defend the format with anecdotes about deficits in set-up skills that they identify everywhere but in their own systems. Such anecdotes actually prove the opposite point: that vinyl as experienced by all but the self-elected expert is compromised. Operating under such biases, the "expert" may comfortably discount the experience of everyone but himself as subjective.

You can't make valid generalized statements regarding format based on a single system case.

My stance these days is they both sound good and sound best when they both sound mostly the same.

" One thing that gets tiresome is attempts by vinyl esthetes to defend the format with anecdotes about deficits in set-up skills that they identify everywhere but in their own systems. Such anecdotes actually prove the opposite point: that vinyl as experienced by all but the self-elected expert is compromised. Operating under such biases, the "expert" may comfortably discount the experience of everyone but himself as subjective. "
Dgarretson (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

To answer back to this Dgarretson perhaps you should check the endless post's of new to vinyl user's as well as the moderately experienced and experienced users in regard to seeking help with vinyl playback who may very well be adept in the set up of their table and arm but seek information and help on perhaps integrating a new arm or cartridge changing those perameters yet again.
Your leap to self elected -experts is absurd. The mechanical basics of turntable set up cannot be overstated to the importance of getting the most out of what is as flawed a medium as digital is. Seeing those post's here seeking help with the basics or being informed that their problem is unbenounced to them just that, and the many here that give help that all but you appreciate is simply being helpfull when all you have brought is superfolous posturing.

I don't see the superiority beliefs that you impose with your inferior and derogetory remarks towards members willing to share knowledge and experience derived from their own long time envolvement. As a 4 decade vinyl user like many here we have gained knowledge but are not total experts. The expertise comes collectively as a whole from the community as the tables , arms and cartridges I have used are vastly different from what others have experience with. As long as I have been doing this I recently started using a graham arm and am learning new information from others more competant than I in unipiviot arms and their inherant differances and quirks.

Take out worn or malfunctioning parts in vinyl playback and it only leaves the basic premise of proper set up and if someone is not satisfied with playback it does not require a "self elected expert" to defer to the basic fundementals in set up being the cause. How many dealers can actually properly set up a table versus those that simply sell them? That's a fact and has been acknowledged here and on other sites. This leaves a huge lack of help and experience for a lot of user's who I am positive are thankfull for the knowledge here that I am as well. Look at how many times individuals you tag as "self-elected experts" even with the knowledge given to an OP will still go as far as giving the name of someone at the company the equipment the OP is using to contact for more detailed knowledge and information. Not something that someone would do in your scenario self claimed superior expertise.

Far more often than not issues and frustrations with unsatisfied sound in playback lead back to an improperly set up and/or miss matched arm and cartridge. Knowing this makes no one an expert but simply understanding of the basics that often don't get the attention needed. I can't think of a single table worth owning that does not require adjustment and re-adjustment after moderate use let alone changing an arm or cartridge. If your car is not performing and your not a mechanic you take it to one. What do you do if that option is unavailable or too distant to obtain, you learn the basics.

Your statement in regard to set up " they identify everywhere but in their own systems", perhaps a forward thinker would see having had them and have them to deal with we realise the importance of the set up as appossed to your assuption we don't encure them and others do. It's mechanical nature, geometries and adjustment make it a less than ideal user friendly format making basics so important to total satisfaction.

Now if someone was to post their opinion on the proper way to push play on a CD player or transport your comments above directed towards that scenario of "self-elected" expert I would have to agree with.

Cheers