direct drive tt's?


It is very hard for someone who grew up in the cd era to know much about turntables, and what to look for and what to avoid. No area dealers have analog set-ups I can listen to, and I am the only person I know who even listens to records. So I thought I'd post here to gain a little knowledge hopefully.

I found a early 70's Miida direct drive turntable in the trash a few months ago. Model number 3115 I believe. The thing was in fine condition, very clean, and ran much quieter than the Thorens 140 belt-drive tt that I was using, so out went the Thorens and in went the Miida. But what I want to know is, what are the shortcomings of dd turntables? What kind of tweaks might be worth experimenting with to get the maximum out of the tt, or are such turntables not worth even fiddling with? What cartidges would be worth thinking about for such a tt, and for the quality of records I play (my collection is mostly from thrift stores and yard sales, but I do have a nitty gritty to clean my finds, and I also have some valuable records I certainly do NOT want to do harm to)? Is it possible or worthwhile to upgrade the tonearm on such a table?

Any advice and information would be welcomed. As I say, its hard to know much about vinyl playback and its subtleties when all you have ever seen are cd's and digital gear.

btw, I run the ol' retro-looking miida into BAT electronics and Snell loudspeakers.

thanks :)
pcanis
pcanis
Pcanis-

In general, belt drives out-perform DD at any given price bracket for the basic reason that any DD motor noise is directly routed to the cartridge via the splindle, platter and record. Even with some of the platter mats available, alot of vibration is passed from the spindle to the record. When you consider how incredibly small even the largest undulation in the record groove is, you can appreciate how easy it is for the slightest outside vibration to start canceling out the material in the grooves or having the cartridge pick up the outside vibration or noise.

Also, DD tables do not maintain accurate speed. They are constantly speeding up or slowing down in tiny increments up to several times in one revolution to maintain an average speed of 33 1/3. While this phenomena is almost imperceptable, it detracts from the overall sense of lively-ness.

Belt drive tables have the advantage of having the belt to reduce much of the noise and vibration introduced to splindle/platter/cartridge. Further improvements (and additional costs) come in the way of improving the spindle bearing surfaces, less motor/electrical vibration, further isolation of the motor, isolation of the plinth and arm, etc, etc, etc. I can't think of ANY medium to higher-end tables currently produced that are NOT belt drive, which is a testament to this approach. (No, Technics 1200's aren't mid-fi!) As my audio-challenged brother-in-law said when he was shocked that he had been listening to an LP and not a CD, "Wow, it's so....CLEAR!!

As to your question on improving your table with a different arm or other tweaks, that the money could be saved for another table when it's time. While you could improve the sonics somewhat on this unit, you would fundamentally end up with the same thing or maybe worse. One of the basic tweaks common to all tables, though, is to set it on a solid, secure, vibration-free surface, but that's a whole 'nother subject.

It sounds like you are at least somewhat satified with your table, so you might just hang on to it until you get the "bug" and the information to make a reasoned purchase decision.

Stay tuned to this Audiogon Discussion Forum!

Regards
Jim
All I can add is:

1) Read my TT posts, man.
2) Call the guys at Needledoctor. They love DDs (like me).
3) If your DD is quieter, it´s because it is.
3) Your DD could be modified VERY cheaply.
I agree with everything Jimbo3 has posted, it is exactly the same advise I would give.

Other than that, I recommend you look for a used Well Tempered turntable and arm when you upgrade.
Ah, I see I have touched on one of the classic friendly debates here too ;)

Well, yes, I am satisfied with the set-up right now. I am running a Sumiko Black Pearl cartridge right now, and the sound is, hmm, let me see... I will say it is punchy, rich, clean (if the record is clean) and spacious but alas not always "holographic" (depends on recording, I am sure).

Strangely, I am finding repeatedly that my rock lp's almost always sound richer and sweeter than my classical lp's. I almost NEVER listen to classical on vinyl, since in almost every case, the digital version sounds better in my sysem as it stands. Only a bare few exceptions to this rule, one of which I listend to a few days ago: Sviatislow Richter in Lizst' s piano concerto 1 on vinyl sounds slightly better and more open in the vinyl version. On my rock stuff, all I will say is this: I love listening to that area of music on either digital or analog, and bth sound sometimes wonderful on my system (Theta Miles cd, balanced output direct into BAT vk-500).

I wnder why my classical lp's never work for me? Is it the limits of my analog playback gear as it stands, or is ther problems with classical lp's that the studio-produced rock one's just don't have?

I want to say much thanks for the information and advice. I just learned some stuff! Sadly, as far as large scale upgrading goes, I also need a better phono pre, even before I would consider purchasing a new TT. Heh, maybe I should help the economy by running up MORE credit card debt?

pcanis