direct drive tt's?

Hear, hear to Well-Tempered tables. I happen to have the Classic model and appreciate the rather funky arm. (Hey, it make sense to me!) There are a number of very good new tables in the $500 range and alot of GREAT used tables under $1000.

Pcanis, you don't need to go whole-hog on a cartridge/phono pre-amp at this point. Look to get a nice Grado Silver MM or perhaps even a used high-output Blue Point Special or Glider for under $300 and stick with the phono pre you have now. Put the money you DON'T spend on that stuff toward the best table you can afford/justify. This way, the table will be able to extract more from the cartridge and it'll be quieter, clearer and more dynamic. It will be easy to upgrade the cartridge and/or phono pre at a later date. A bad table won't extract much from a cartridge no matter HOW good the cartridge is!

Classical recordings typically have very wide dynamic range while most rock is fairly limited. A possible reason for your apparent dicrepancy in the quality of play-back between the two genres is that classical is typically more demanding and revealing of the table and cartridge than most rock. You are hearing the problems of a DD table when you play classical.

A note on the Thorens- Thoroughly clean the spindle & bearing (bottom AND sides of both) and re-lube. Get a new belt. Adjust the suspension so it is level, low and loose. Shim the cartridge so that the top of the body is level with the record while it is playing. Get an alignment protractor and get the cartridge lined up. Put the table on a solid piece of granite, thick acrylic or a similar dense material. You will be rewarded.

Most, if not all, of the proponents of DD are DJs who have a whole different set of criteria for tables. High torque, quick-starting motors and the ability to spin freely to "scratch" are far more valuable than sound quality.

Click on the blue-colored names of the entries (i.e. the blue "Jimbo3" next to the posting date) to read that person's other posts to get familiar with their ideas, priorities, tastes, etc. Then find a few who seem to share your tastes and/or make sense and communicate with them. You'll be up to speed in no time!

Regards
Jim

Pcanis-
A couple of after-thoughts on my previous post-

1) The comment in the last sentence of the second paragraph about a "bad table" was intended to be a broad statement and not specifically about your Miida. I am not familiar with the Miida and it could well be a very nice deck. If it was an expensive piece at the time, one would assume that is would sound better than an inexpensive belt-drive of that era! (But you know what they say about the word 'assume'!)

2) If it's in good shape, your Sumiko is probably worth putting on a pretty good table, so you might want to keep it and try a used Rega P3 (around $400), get an Origin Live-modified Rega RB-250 arm (around $350 new, $225 used) and sell the RB-300 arm that came with the P3 (for around $200). Heck of a set-up for five or six bills! Go with the Benz Glider later on.

Of course, that's just one of the million ways to get a good analog rig.....

Regards
Jim

I DON´T SCRATCH RECORDS.

The modified 1200 is undisputably THE turntable to have in the under $1000 category. If you want significally better performance, get a VPI with flywheel and a Graham tonearm with some fancy MC. Really.

I like classical on record more than CD. Very different experience. I have both DD and BD TT, they all give better result to classical on records. Listening to violin is a quick evidence. Dynamic range is a big difference for orchestra. I doubt your speaker may not have the capability to show off symphony or your TT may be the cause. For rock music, less dynamic, you are probably hearing the smooth sound from your TT and amps. But whole system(including room) is not showing dynamic range enough. I have some record and CD on the same recording, LP always win in sweet high, dynamic range, and soundstage except bass and that "Bili Bili Fufu" noise from record.
(used oracle vs Sony ES + P3 DAC (hey! not bad sound for digital)) I would complain about bass of TT but not in your case!? set up is different.

I do like Sumiko blue point special (sweet high/bass shy) and grado (nice med).

I don't buy new pop records, my digital is well good enough.
For classical, I can stand that "bili bili" to get my dynamic range and sweet sound from classical music.
I am buying more and more classical records than CD's.
Actually, after my TT, I start to realize that Angel, Decca and DG have world class recording team back to ~1960. And they have a gold years up to ~80 before CD start to take over the market. Reasonable CD sound can be achieved at lower price, that's when lots of small studio came out. But hey!, I respect those engineers in those big company at that time, recordings are great even in today's technology!

A few random thoughts: I have owned a Goldmund Studio table which utilized a Pabst direct drive motor and was very happy with the sound and would recommend it to someone seeking an excellent table at a bargain price. A friend recently purchased a Studio with a Dave Shreve modified Rabco arm for $1000. I owned a Linn LP-12 prior to the Goldmund and chose to sell it inorder to purchase the Goldmund. Either drive method can produce superb results, each has its own set of problems which must be solved. My current table is a belt drive Rockport, the newest Rockports are direct drive. With respect to my TT, I find that the sound is sensitive to A/C filtration and to the material from which the drive belt is made and the tensioning of the belt. Having said this I admit that most direct drive TT's, particularly those low cost models from Japan, have problems in the implementation of the drive exactly along those lines stated by Jimbo3.