2. analog
  3. 1066119220

SACD or vinyl? Looking for great sound and mid $$

I'm planning to upgrade my system and software as I find myself enjoying listening to music as I never have previously. The music that I plan to add is more jazz and classical which I am just starting to appreciate and therefore have a limited collection. Perhaps, I should provide a little background:

I began my quest for musical nirvana listening to a great number of speakers (B&W cdm, reference 3a, totem, opera, pro-ac, etc.) in shops with vastly different amplification and sources. I started to question the validity of the auditions when I began noticing my dislike of different systems that had the same sources (e.g. Music Hall cd 25 and the cambridge 500).

Reading all the while that I should start my upgrade path with the source, I thought a hybrid cd/sacd player would be the place. I heard a DSD recorded SACD that blew me away but I became sidetracked when I couldn't find a single sacd that I wanted available at my local store. I then thought I should just get the best cd player my money could buy (enjoyed the audio note 2.1x), and then I heard vinyl...

My question is should I get a SACD based system or vinyl? I've heard some of the most lifelike sounds ever in SACD (the cymbals and snare drum in Bennie Wallace's, "Moodsville" were sensational). On the other hand, the vinyl version of Johnny Cash's guitar strings in American Recordings was also stunningly lifelike and gripping.

I understand that the number SACD releases is increasing and the number of vinyl releases is decreasing, however we have a great used record store locally and the software is quite reasonably priced. On the other hand the convenience of SACDs is very attractive - my wife won't laugh at me or begrudge the fact that I am washing my LP's instead of the dishes :)

I'm also curious about price points. With a good LP, where does one need to start price wise for a tt/arm/cartridge to get the equivalent of an SACD playback of say the Shanling scd-s200?

I hope you can help a soul in search of good sounds.
conscious
colitas
150 posts
 
Hey Conscious, in my humble opinion you can get the visceral bass you desire with the P3. I have one with just a Grado Blue on it and it's not bad. One thing I'd recommend to improve the bass is the Expreemachining heavyweight counterweight and a replacement mat. I bought a new mat from Herbie's Audio. Amazing difference in bass response and signal to noise ratio. It seemed to quiet some records that I know "sounded" scratchy. I currently use a carbon fiber brush to clean and have no real problems with "vinyl" noise, and I consider myself an anal listener. I agree with your assesment of vinyl's strong points. Pink Floyd's The Wall was completely transformed for me on vinyl. Good luck discovering what you've been missing!
rushton's avatar
rushton
2,445 posts
 
Conscious, it sounds like you've caught the vinyl bug big time! Great to have you join those of us committed to this format. What you describe is exactly why I've stayed the course with vinyl, keep buying more (used and new), and have continued to upgrade my front end to be able to hear more and more of what good vinyl can deliver.

A very good vinyl system can reproduce bass with accurate timbre, definition and extension. Better than CD in my experience. But doing so is not an easy challenge. As with all things audio, everything makes a difference, everything has an effect. The rack on which you set the TT will make a difference. The phono stage will make a difference. The cartridge will make a HUGE difference. I'm not familiar with the Rega cartridge, but perhaps others can share their experience to help. Good Luck!
dougdeacon
3,338 posts
 
Look out, here comes another convert! You should have listened to Rushton's well reasoned warnings, Concious. Now it's too late.

I'm unfamiliar with Rega cartridges, but many say even better sound can be had for similar money. Colitas' cartridge is one idea and I'm sure there are others.

Ask your dealer for the price of a P3 with an RB250 arm. Not only will you save money, you'll get better sound. As Colitas mentioned, there are several reputable modifiers of Rega arms. They all believe the RB250 is sonically superior to the RB300.

These Rega arm mods offer great bang-for-buck sonic improvements and are universally admired (except by Rega of course). Changing the arm end stub and the counterweight, as Colitas suggested, should improve both bass and clarity. Visit www.expressimoaudio.com or www.tonearm.co.uk for details.

You might buy just the P3 from your dealer and add a fully modded up arm from one of the above. Simple and economical.

Buying used should get you more for you dollars of course, but if you're uncomfortable with that then a P3/modded RB250/??? cartridge would be excellent value. Welcome to the madhouse!
nrchy's avatar
nrchy
2,124 posts
 
One issue you must consider is the availability of music in the format you choose.

All older music will be available on LP, but it will be harder to find new music (yes I know it is possible, I'm just saying it is more difficult).

With SACD it will be impossible to find most older music now. Who knows about the future? If the format continues to grow it might not be a long-term issue. Right now, though it is not possible to get most of what I would want to buy on SACD.

There is a lot of older stuff that never came out on redbook CD so it doesn't seem too far-fetched to assume that a lot will never be there on SACD either.

I have both formats and have simply accepted some stuff will not be available on one or the other formats.

Which one will provide the greatest ammount of music you want to hear?
larryi
3,977 posts
 
In terms of available software, your choice is between CD and vinyl. At more modest level of investment in dollars and time, I would go with a good cd player. Good vinyl reproduction involves a more substantial investment in a turntable, tonearm, phono stage, record cleaner (a must-have item), as well as time to properly set up the rig, clean records, hunt for records in used record shops (the fun part), etc.
More to discover