2. amps-preamps
  3. 1397501648

Preamp for Aesthetix / Atma-sphere

Hi

I have the Aesthetix Io Eclipse with volume and dual power supplies, Atma-sphere MA-1 monoblocs (140 watts) and Audiokinesis Dream Maker (93 db sensitive) speakers. These are great components. My question is about system synergy, how to make them play together.

I have been running the Io direct to my amps since I first bought the Mk2 version back in 2004. At the time, I had a Krell FPB600, and in that context, it was a blessing, and a great step up from the Krell KAV 250p preamp. I'll never forget my first impression with the Io - it was like going from the wooded hills up into the mountains. There was no going back.

With volume, the Io functions as a preamp. It looks like a preamp. Someone here on A-gon said going direct is best - which I interpreted as: it IS a preamp! So I thought, OK I have a combined phono and preamp - problem fixed. But it wasn't.

From recent testing I have finally become convinced that the Io does benefit from a separarate preamp. Even if clarity and detail is better going direct from the Io to the amps, the punch and "here-ness" of the music is clearly better with a preamp in the chain, at least in my system.

Trouble is, which preamp? I am testing a small solid state Musical Innovation preamp, which helps with the punch but veils the music. An optimal solution might be the Aesthetix Callisto, preferably with dual power - but I don't have the space, and I already have a lot of tubes and tube heat. I have space for one or possibly two boxes.

From what I have heard so far, a solid state might do the job well (in my tube-rich context), however it should not impart any s-state artifacts or reduce the resolution from the Io Eclipse.

The ideal would be to test a few tube and s-state preamps, and then decide. However, this is difficult where I live, so advice is welcome.

My question relates to my own setup of course, but is relevant for everyone with a top phono stage on the one hand and amps on the other. What is best in the middle?

From recent testing I have learned that problems that I thought were related to the speakers, the phono pre, the pickup and so on, were in fact related to the preamp issue. For example, the Dream Makers straight from the Io may sound a bit lazy and washed out in the bass, very clear in mid and treble but not fully embodied. Plugging in the solid state pre, the situation becomes dramatically different, now the speakers are driving, propulsive. Very enjoyable, but some detail is lost and some transistor things added that I don't want.

So I am looking for a solution with most of the plusses, and not much of the minuses. The preamp must be fully balanced with XLR in / out.
-
Ag insider logo xs@2xo_holter
Ag insider logo xs@2x
o_holter OP
977 posts
 
Thanks Jafox - I will try. I also have a Tele au7 and a pair of Siemens 6922 coming. Will be interesting. Did you try the Hytron? Are you saying, you preferred the Einstein to the Callisto Sig?

Albert - thanks, very interesting. If I had known that The Tube sounded s-state, I might have reconsidered. Before I got into tubes I went up the whole Krell line. However, like you say, these preamps have personality, and I think a good idea, whatever choice we make, is to listen for what is good, and not so much, what is bad or missing. "Smell the roses". For example, I imagine that the bass handling of the Einstein compared to the Callisto would show some of the typical traits of good s-state, like iron fist on the bass, no softness or bloat, and similar. Although I might in the end prefer the benefits of an all-tube design. Don't know, since I have never heard the Callisto (or the Atma MP1).
Ag insider logo xs@2x
o_holter OP
977 posts
 
An A-B test
Playing Ane Brun: These days (from the It all starts with one LP)
(System: Lyra Atlas / SME V / Hanss T30 / Io Eclipse / Einstein The Tube / Atma-sphere MA-1 / Audiokinesis Dream Makers)
A - direct from Io Eclipse to MA-1 amps
B - through Einstein The Tube
The song is a good test case, an upfront but intimate and partly subdued female singer, plus heavy drums and bass work. It is the balance of these elements that make out the song.
Case A:
This is the first time I have tried direct to the amps since I got the new preamp four weeks ago. As often before, at first, I am amazed just how good the Io is direct into the amps. Delicate, intricate, organic, detailed. The vocal is right there. It is only after a while that I recognize the problems. Sound is detailed but not quite right. Body and drive and punch is missing. The voice is a bit ghostly. Turning up the volume doesn't help, it only means more of the same. Almost like a very high-quality photo, that hasn't been fully developed yet.
Case B:
With The Tube into the chain, some detail may be lost, but not much, and the whole thing feels right. Bass, vocal, everything is more filled out, working better together. The drama in her voice and in the band as a whole is better captured, making a more consistent and convincing picture.
My wife was listening during this test. Her verdict was: B is clearly better. So I would say, the Tube passed this test with flying colors. YMMV etc.
Ag insider logo xs@2x
o_holter OP
977 posts
 
Jafox, do you have more details on the RCA 12BH7 that worked magic - ? These tubes can be found, but I am not sure is it the right one.
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
"The whole thing feels right, bass, vocal and everything is more filled out everything working better together". Based on that description it seems that the preamp is providing "more" not less information. The direct route appears to be omitting significant vital details of your recording. The Einstein is presenting the more complete music signal.
Charles,
jafox
1,458 posts
 
O_holter - I first learned from another A'gon member of the magic of the RCA 12BH7 in the Aria WV5 preamp. He was right on about this vs. the 7602 that I have liked there. I then tried it the CAT JL3 amps in the 12AU7 socket and the same miracle….wow. And then it made its way to the APL Denon CDP with a major improvement of performance. Alex of APL was telling all not to use this tube in his players due to higher current demands but as this player on had one tube for the 2 channels, it worked mighty fine for years.

The major strength of the RCA 12BH7 is new level of clarity. This amount of grain caused by the other tubes shows how the RCA removes the smearing from note to note as well as lower-level details (percussion specifically) previously hidden.

As for the Einstein vs. the Callisto Sig., these both portrayed space with aplomb which says a lot as so few line stages truly get this right. To hear these two side by side for just a couple hours did not give me enough time to become familiar with the pros/cons or to pick a "winner". There was no WOW factor here like there was when I got the Aria WV5 a year or so later.
More to discover