Nuforce

Hi, Drubin. Yes, I've stated that my experience concludes that the amplifier is the key to a system's performance whether good or bad.

However, I do not recall ever qualifying that statement with the 'low listening volume' you mentioned above.

My opinion of the amp being the single greatest factor to a system's sonics has not changed. In fact, the Nuforce Ref 9s and now the SEs have only further substantiated that opinion.

Of course if the Nuforce amps were a bad experience, I don't think I would have thought any less about the significance of the amplifier's role. I most likely would have only thought I simply made a bad choice for an inferior product.

Where I have changed my opinion a bit is that my experience also tells me that proper line conditioning and then proper vibration control are right behind the amplifier respectively and are far more critical than I previously thought.

It's probably no coincidence that I also think these three ingredients are also by far the most misunderstood with the most mis-applied methodologies in the industry. That is probably why I prioritize them as 1,2,3. (I think there are a total of 7 ingredients).

But for me these first 3 ingredients are foundational to building a superior system and it is simply impossible to do so without carefully scrutinizing these three.

And the amount of money spent on a component or the number of people adhering to a certain methodology has nothing to do with rectifying a products' shortcomings. Nuforce and Foundation Research product prove that.

Sorry if I sound like an infomercial, but I do have my own experience and convictions and I freely stated these same convictions before I ever thought I'd become a retailer.

-IMO

My thoughts are very close to yours Stehno. To add to them.

IMO the peak performance limit of a system is usually defined by the quality of the AC power available.

IMO noone knows what components can really sound like till they have heard them without the effects of vibration removed, and that is a near impossibility. Some components are far more susceptible to having their sound ruined by vibration than others. While the manufacturer ought to do as much as possible to address that in the design, equally end-users experiences may differ markedly according to how well they address vibration issues.

Thanks, Redkiwi.

For the last 3 or 4 years, I've been quite a stickler for proper line conditioning and have owned what I consider the best line conditioners available in the Foundation Research units. However, the vast improvements of the latest versions have forced me to become even more dogmatic about their rightful place in a system. So much so that I'm convinced the weak link in music reproduction is probably a lack of proper line conditioning on the engineering side.

Now I do differ from your statement about a component mfg'er doing all they can to address line conditioning and/or vibration control.

To me that would be a bad thing. I believe I stated earlier in this thread that the best thing a mfg'er could do regarding these two ingredients is stay neutral.

That's because there are multiple methodologies to select from and multiple ways to execute. If a mfg'er chooses an inferior methodology, then that product becomes not worthless but worth less to me.

And just because a mfg'er knows how to build an amp or a cd player does not mean they inherently know the first thing about proper line conditioning or vibration control.

I'm certainly not saying I'm an expert in these areas, but I do know that there are different methodologies and they most always clash rather than compliment. And I'd hate to have others make those decisions for me.

BTW, would you be too upset if I changed the name of my company from Dynamic Contrasts to Redkiwi? It would be strictly for martketing purposes. :)

-John

LOL - there is no copyright on the moniker.

I was referring just to vibration control, and I tend to agree with you, manufacturers should not incorporate bladders, special spongey feet etc. That would be a nuisance. When I typed that I had in mind flimsy or poorly designed casings, such as in the early Nuforces, and the much better ones used now. Or appropriate standoffs to isolate circuit boards. There are some basic things not all manufacturers adequately address that you don't want to be fiddling with later (having to rebuild the box) or having to compensate for.

I have to say the power conditioner market appears to get some decent products, but there are very few vibration isolation products that are really effective.

If you have any thoughts on a conditioner that will work on 230V I would appreciate it. Especially something to feed a couple of digital components.

I hope people don't mind, but I haven't read all the responses here, yet. I have been an enthusiast for Nuforce amps, as shown by my previous posts on it. What I'm objecting to here is that I was told that only way I could update by Nuforce 8.02b's to 8.05's or 9's was to sell my 8.02's and buy a 9. I could listen to the 9's for free they said. I guess that I waited too long. Now, let me just say that the 8.02's are fantastic amps. It's just that I have to use the Cardas adaptors to match my single-ended RGR. I have been told by two designers that this was not good in this instance(although Ayre use them successfully in their stuff). I guess I waited too long. Boy, those guys are quick! Hell, I might prefer the 8.05's to the 9's! Who knows? I'm not your conventional audiphile. BTW, don't listen to the naysayers about the Nuforce's. They are fantastic!