Disclaimer: I am an Allnic dealer.
I have the Verito Z installed on my Walker Audio turntable, where I usually have the highly regarded Bluelectric Magic Diamond.
I currently have somewhere between 75 and 100 hours on it, break-in time expected to be 100 hours or so. It took a little while to dial it in on the Walker arm as the Verito wood body is a lot lighter the the Magic Diamond. My early impressions were that, out-of-the-box the upper frequencies were well extended and the sound stage was nice and wide. Low frequency extension and depth were lacking (not missing,
but lacking). This cartridge takes some time not only to break in, but to warm up. Usually, my Magic Diamond is nice and limber after 1 LP side, the Verito Z (at least during the break-in phase)really does not show what it is capable of until 2 or so LP sides.
At about the 50 hour mark, bass and depth of soundstage, began to reveal themselves and continue to improve with use.
If you were to ask me what a comparison to the MD and Verito would be, I would, at this point, say that the Verito Z does a lot of what the Magic Diamond does, and does some things better. I think the ability to place instruments on the stage and give the listener the ability to follow and unravel individual performers during complex musical passages (think Mahler's symphonic works here) is better on the Verito Z. I would also give the nod to the Verito in articulation with respect to bass, where the MD may go lower in the extension dept ( bass performance may still be changing in the Verito sample I am using. The Verito Z is every bit the Magic Diamonds equal in the areas of presentation of soundstage width and depth, and gives the tweeters on my Kharma loudspeakers the opportunity to show some of what they are famous for.
Given the above, I believe (see dealer disclaimer above) that the Allnic Verito Z is an MC cart that holds it's own and competes with those in the upper echelon of performance: Dyna XV 1, Air-tight PC1, the MD, Koetsu, etc.
At it's MSRP, it should at least be considered worthy of a listen by anyone planning to invest in a high-end MC cart, prior to making a purchase decision. |
I'm afraid that I can't give you any comparisons to other cartridges in the same system (my system is much darker in tonal tilt than Slipknot's, with a bit more deep bass extension), but I did get to hear the Allnic cartridge in Joe (Slipknot)'s system last Sunday at our NJAS meeting, and his description is a good one, based on my roughly three-hour listening session. The cartridge is fast, and handled my most demanding piano record (among others) very well, without any smearing or overhang, no problems handling very extreme dynamics, and no apparent tonal problems--seemed very neutral. Soundstaging was excellent. The deepest bass extension (i.e., the last octave of bass) is the one thing I can't comment on, because Joe's system does not go as low as mine. If I were considering changing from my EMT cartridge, I would consider the Allnic as well as the Dynavector and Air Tight cartridges Joe mentions, and similar cartridges; I think it is worthy of consideration in that quality range. |
Very pleased with mine, but it took a long time (>100hours) to dial in. I can compare it with a ZYX UNIverse. The Z is full bodied compared to the airy ZYX. Soundstage is either focused or narrow, versus the ZYX which is either wide or diffuse - depending on the software. Arm matching and cable capacitance and loading all play a part. The Z by nature is musical, warm, powerful and assertive. Koetsu on steroids springs to mind. It is a bit reticent in the highs and not as open as the ZYX, which by nature is on the other end of the spectrum. I like the Z because it is neutral and handles all types of music in a similar vein and retains a character of smooth detail, but punchy, with no emphasis of any part of the frequency spectrum. In comparison to other carts through my system I would rate it high on the value chart, and I can't imagine anyone would be dissapointed.
Steve |
Thank you gentlemen for your comments.I think that this maybe the ticket.
I would ask that members submit their opinions to the forum thread.I don't mind dealers making offers,but some are suspect:those who wanted the line and didn't get it-John.
Has anyone compared the "z" to the AT PC-3? Plenty of info on the PC-1.Thanks in advance-Tom |
IMO this cart is not an overachiever. It is certainly was not a top tier cart in my system on my SME V arm, perhaps that was the issue. The Allnic Z did not compare favorably to these carts that have been in my house the last 4 months: Koetsu Coralstone, Dynavector Xv-1T, Air PC-1 or the Air Tight Supreme. Main difference the Allnic is just not a transparent as all the others across the frequency spectrum. To be honest not even close.
Obviously, their is a significant price difference to the above mentioned carts. Now on to value, I didn't find this cart to be a strong value proposition either, if I were buying or recommending a cart at this price point this would not make my list. Just my 2 cents.
|
Dear Tpsonic: I just heard the Verito and agree with Dlanselm. It is a cartridge that at both frequency extremes performs in " lesser " grade way especially at the top but on the low bass is not good enough either.
Yes the Xv-1 and even the PC-1 are better quality performers as is the Coral one.
Nothing special to comment on this Verito cartridge.
regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
So the consensus is:that I would need to spend $4500 to $9K in order to get a cartridge of any merit.I won't do it!
All cartridges have their own signature-period!
I eliminated the Transfiguration Phoenic due to less than ideal bass performance .I don't think Clearaudio or Benz has an offering in the $2-3K that I want to live with.Allaerts representation in the US at this moment is a joke-spent a year with that cast trying to resolve warranties to no avail.Would rather buy a diamond watch off a street corner.
Maybe digital is the only course left-but then what to do with all my vinyl.
Must I buy a Coralstone ($15K),PC-1/Supreme $9K+) or equivalent to be happy-this is rediculous!
Before I read another members' opinion comparing mega-buck cartridges to one under $3K,please take a moment to reflect on what I have posted.Thank you.
|
Dear Tom: Well there are a lot of cartridges under 1K that beat the Verito mainly MM/MI ones but even the Celebration makes a very good " job " and you always can choose something like this:
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgcart&1261423180&/Shelter-9000
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgcart&1261282177&/Soundsmith-The-Voice
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgcart&1261280408&/Miyabi-Standard
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgcart&1261118939&/Benz-Micro-LP
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgcart&1260796919&/Dynavector-XV-1s
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgcart&1260635219&/Audio-tekne-MC-6310
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgcart&1259039011&/Van-den-Hul-Colibri-XCM
At the end is you who have to pull the trigger, no doubt about.
Tom, some of us try to help nothing more.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Tom,
You seem to take my SONIC impressions of the Allnic personally. I answered your question posted.
I was commenting on its absolute performance relative to others. Something, to be honest, I think this cart needed because IMO its resolving capabilities have been overstated by sellers of it.
Perhaps a more constructive response, if you did not like my answer would have been to ask what I may suggest in your budget. Which unless I missed it was not stated.
I was not saying you have to buy a mega buck cart to be happy. I could be happy with any lower model Koestu often had cheap on the GON, Allerts lower priced carts are very good, EMT's are very good, Shindo SPU is great with the Hommage Step Up, all these carts are can be had near the Allnic price. All of which I would prefer, but that does not necessarily mean you will. |
I found the Allnic rather dull sounding. To my ears the Zyx Universe is infinitely better as is the PC-1.
But I'm not a fan of the Magic Diamond either which, IMO, is grossly overpriced.
To each his own. |
Please forgive me.It is very difficult to encompass the large number of cartridges available.It is also difficult when members' impressions are at the polar-opposites.
My previous experience has left me wary of the possible consequences of buying a cartridge,thus I feel that I cannot go down the used route.
If I were to look strictly at the manufacturers and their reputation,I would invest in a Benz.I have heard these several times and the manufacturer will support them.It is not my cup-of-tea,so I am ssearching else-where.Some other products/persons cannot say the same.
I have had a strong relationship with music and several manufacturers.I have worked in a recording studio and been asked to consult on several designs.I considered it a privalege to be involved.I have never felt that my opinion was any more valid than anothers-it is subject to ones' interpretation.What pleases one,may not please another.But I do feel that there is "a theme of truthful variation".
Would anyone be willing to look at their system/equipment and offer or surmise why the intrepretaion of this cartridge is so varied.There seems to be a consensus as to the qualities of the PC-1 and possibly the XV-1.
I should have stated my budget up front,but had hoped that my string of cartridge threads might have been followed-MY BAD.My apologies to all,but I am frustrated and down with the flu. |
Tpsonic, frustrating indeed - and sometimes that is how I feel about my whole audio system. I have just acquired a brilliant piece of gear - the Accuphase C17 head amp. I don't need a head amp for gain, but the incremental improvement this unit adds to the signal chain is beyond denial. Of course I discovered that as soon as I put it in the chain, ground impedances changed and it took some time to discover the right interconnect and grounding configuration!
When I connect the Verity Z via the C17, the improvement is modest, when I put a UNIverse or Sony XL-55 thru it, the benefit is greater. Also, the best sound comes from using a really old decrepit looking low capacitance phono cable from SAEC with plastic phono plugs no less from the Dynavector 507 Mk2.
The Verity Z is dark, solid, deep, and musical. It is uninspiring if it is not loaded properly at the right impedance. It sounds better when loaded through transformers - probably because that balances the dark and slightly recessed top end. It does seem to require time to warm up and a cold room does not help. Also, it seems to sound best in medium to high mass arms.
In conclusion Tpsonic, imho it is a very good cartridge for the money, but there are no guarantees it will perform at the highest level unless you are willing to experiment with various setups. With that comment in mind, I would recommend you buy a cartridge that is known to work in a defined or your configuration of arm, cable, and phono amp.
Hope that helps, but it probably doesn't!!
Steve |
Thank you Steve,and also Hammertone for placing their advertisement.I would be using this in an OL Encounter III.Would the piece of ebony be better than a direct connection? Thanks in advance. |
I rarely contribute here, but I thought I would because I have been living with the Verito Z for about a year. I have not heard a large variety of cartirdges in my system; however, I have had the opportunity to hear many of the very best in Dave Beetle's system. Dave is a friend, but I have no interest in his business. And I do not buy audio gear based on a sense of obligation to its sellers - much to their chagrin sometimes, I am sure!
I can second a number of comments by the other Verito owners here. The Verito does take about a 100 hours to "loosen" up (every year it is taking me longer, too). At first, though it has incredible detail and speed, it sounds constrained at both frequency extremes and rather thin. The change over time is dramatic, and it takes on the character Radicalsteve describes. An aluminum headshell will be a disaster. My experience indicates that such a combination will destroy the Verito's transparency, with resonances muddying the sound, blurring images and making for a quite unsatisfying hard, grating and sibilant performance. But a single performance is not the last word about the performer.
I used the Verito in a number of headshells, all aluminum, on a Dynavector 505 and I just could not understand why I could not make it perform as I had heard it at Dave Beetle's; I was getting frustrated by a smearing of image and a real hardness in the top end. Of course, I also was distracted by and played with cables to compensate for what I did not know were headshell issues. On Dave's suggestion, and that of a friend in Toronto also using the Verito, I tried a Shun Mook ebony headshell. That did it - a truly remarkable transition. I have been more than happy since, until recently. I recently changed tonearms to one with a handcrafted ebony wand, but it has a small aluminum plate that is used to attach the cartridge to the integrated headshell. While not as severe as before, the sibilance and top end hardness returned. After hearing from Dave B. the story in his ad, I slipped one of the ebony shims that come with the Shun Mook headshell between the top of the Verito and the aluminum mounting plate. Magic. Warmth, solidity of instrument and voice images, speed, tonal correctness, great ambient recording space detail, depth and width of soundstage - and great bass all have returned.
I just heard the Verito at Dave's on both a Dynavector 505 and a 12 inch SAEC - with the ebony shim - and compared to a London Decca on a 12 inch EMT arm. The London is wonderful - all the qualities above, but to a lesser degree than the Verito. In particular, somewhat less detail and a restricted and more forward soundstage, in comparison in Dave's system.
Synergy is a word with which we are all familiar. In light of that concept's application to this hobby, I always try to temper my natural, I think, desire to make statements about absolute value, especially when popping a new component into a system that is maximized for the one it's replacing (at least temporarily). I appreciated Mr. Dlanselm's comment that he was unsure about the role that the SME arm, with its aluminum headshell, might have played in his system. However, he did not say how many hours he put on the Verito. Unfortunately, Mr. Rauliruegas provided no information at all on such matters, on the time he spent, or how he spent his time, with the Verito. I really appreciate commentary where such significant detail is provided, rather than generalized comparative statements; but not everyone has the time. I know I usually do not. I am not prepared to spend the money on some of the cartridges that people have mentioned here. Fortunately, I have not had to because I have a friend who has had and played them all in a wide variety of set ups (I call David's big closet the "tonearm museum" - I think he really needs a big old bank vault given the total value of what he has available at home to try). By the way, David and I do not necessarily agree on the kind of sound we like - I have characterized our slight differences as "Drama vs Dharma", but the Verito is something I do agree with him on completely, given the right conditions of its use and the patience to listen and work with it. I also believe that we can get to a point where we will hear a system that "does it" for both of us. In fact, I think we're getting pretty close to being there.
For what it's worth, that's my story. Good luck with your purchase, Tpsonic, whatever you decide. |
Dear Gersimon: The cartrridge was not mine but of a friend and with more than 100 hours on it. I test it in two different tonearms with different headshells. It performs better in some than in others but the whole cartridge performance is ( like I posted ) nothing especial even for its price.
Now, IMHO how is that a cartridge designer ( with all respect ) build a cartridge with almost no voicing ( I have to assume this because of those troubles with the aluminum and the kind. ) where he detect the " wrong side " of the item?
Now, if I pay 2.8K for a cartridge that does not sound even decent till you find the ebony shims or the like then I have to pass.
Now, I will take every single effort in a cartridge that at the end can show its " marvelous " and great quality performance but IMHO this is not the case with this cartridge.
The music sound reproduction for me is something critical and serious as is for all of you and we all are customers and we have to ask for better and easy audio items.
Dear friend, do you want something like this: great and easy? that outperform any single cartridge named here? well there are some and one of that cartridge IMHO is this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Bang-Olufsen-B-O-MMC1-MMC-1-Cartridge-RARE_W0QQitemZ120482629912QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0d530918#ht_500wt_1182
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Dear Mr. Raul,
Thank you for your "detailed" account; very interesting it is. However, it is so totally opposite to my experience (and others', as witnessed even on this thread) that I cannot imagine the particulars of the circumstances that have given rise to yours. Over the last year and a half, I have had the opportunity to hear the Verito (both versions) on a dozen different arms on almost as many turntables, with various phono stages, step-up transformers and cabling, and in comparison with many of the cartridges listed in this thread - my opinion stands. As for "voicing": compliance issues, Cartridge man's (and others') Isolator, different body materials on hundreds of different cartridges, not to mention impedance matching and gain issues, all bear witness to the fact that your comment, with respect, is without substantial foundation. Is there any other aspect of analogue reproduction that is as fraught with synergy issues as cartridge/headshell/tonearm/arm mounting/cabling/gain design, to mention a few? It's not so hard, after all, to make a 15K cartridge (or any other piece of audio gear) sound bad. I would also comment that Mr. Audiofeil, well known as a dealer, called the Verito "dull" - the polar opposite of what those Verito users who have had issues complain of. How inexplicable. I have heard several of the Zyxs in these different scenarios and do not own one of them, which is not to say they are "bad" by any means. There is no substitute for time, trial and error, educated guessing, careful listening and patience in this arena. I cannot account for your experience and commentary, but thank you for the additional information.
Regards,
Gerry |
Tpsonic,
I agree with Gersimon with his pragmatic approach to an evaluation and his opinion of the Verito Z.
I have had a Verito Z for about six months and have compared it to a Dynavector XV1-s and used it on a Kuzma Stogi S arm and a Reed, and now will be putting it on a Kuzma 4-point. I do think it works best on higher mass tonearms. I find the Verito very natural and musical.
The post by Audiofeil calling this cart "dull" is laughable. The Verito is anything but that. If he sold Allnic it would be the best cart in the world.
And Raul, I have to call you on this, you say this cart is too much trouble to get right, and audio should be "simple". How many tables, with how many arms, and is it 19 carts in your system? Let me know what complicated is if your approach to audio is "simple".
With the right setup I have listened to Ron Carters "yellew and green", Cat people "soundtrack", Eric Clapton "unplugged", King Crimson "court of crimson king" and "larks tongue in aspic" Herbie Hancock, Ben Webster, Suzanne Vega, etc.etc. and heard tight true accoustic bass, tympanies, kick drums and crystal clear bells and cymbals, piano notes and vocals that are amazing.
I'm not saying that this cart is perfect but on alot of music with the right arm and setup it can be awesome. What cart is perfect for all music and all arms? Then we would all just have one cart and one arm and one table, right.
I think this cart is a good value and compares with carts costing much more. Remember let your ears do the deciding.
Thanks for the time,
Matt |
Dear Matt: You are right audio is not " simple " and I don't mean in that plain sense but: imagine that you pay 2.8K ( big money ) for an audio item where no one knows that to perform good you have to add those ebony " devices " , I'm sorry but this is crazy.
You say you try a XV-1 well this cartridge perform good in almost any environment, yes it could perform better with some tonearms than with other ones but in general you almost always have a good performance. You don't have to be a " fortune-teller " to find out its real performance.
Now, many of you already put those 2.8K on it so you have to live with till you find something better or something that you like it better.
Now, I'm not questioning that you like it ( and other people too: owners. ) at the end of the day what I say is not important as certainly is what you say/think when you are who must live with.
It is always difficult not to have a controversy on subjects like the one here where exist so many different parameters/stages to make a statements on a cartridge ( any ), in this case more complex due to those singular " characteristics " for a good matching tonearm and build material on direct contact with the cartridge.
Anyway, I think that everyone of us are looking for the " best " sound reproduction performance through our analog rig and if you think that the Verito was the right way to achieve that's fine.
I add that for all of us, including Tom, this controversy can open " new " alternatives like the one I linked. Why we try with " new " cartrridges? why we buy new and different cartridges? what are we looking for with all those cartridge, tonearm or TT changes?: I assume a improvement in our system quality performance, well the Verito can't give me that desired improvement but the B&O in the link can and did in a wide manner.
Maybe I'm wrong but this is the way I " feel " and the way the audio experiences made my way of thinking.
I respect any single opinion in this forum and learn from any single one, this is part of my audio experiences.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
I have had two lengthy conversations with two different Allnic dealers.Both have had comparable experiences with the same cartridges that I have used in the past.Even discussing associated gear,we appear to be on the same page.They have stated that "if I were to compare this to a PC-1,I might find it less "refined".This I am willing to accept at 1/2 the cost.
I will be using this in the OL Encounter III,so I suspect that the "shim" might be required.Does anyone know if Allnic will supply these???
I had given Lloyd Walker a call on Friday.He said that he had the Verito there to audition.I will speak with him again on Monday and relay his comments.
I thank everyone for their contributions and I believe this cartridge is still in the running to fill the Ecos place in my system. |
Dear Matt: Maybe the differences in our each one opinion on the subject is biased for our each one refrence today standards on quality performance.
Mine already changed in the last few months thank's to " new " cartridge alternatives. Today my standards on this area are not only different of what I had but with higher quality.
I don't like to be " steady " and conform with " more of the same " because IMHO I think that we have to help to the music reproduction trying to improve every single day what we are accustom to. Some one says that " evolution " is part of the name of the game and I agree with.
But " evolution " is different for each one and not because each one of us are different as a " whole " but because each one of us are at different step on the audio learning curve " ladder ".
What for you today is great certainly " tomorrow " will be only ok. In the same manner what for Tom is poor today maybe for me is ok and not because one of each is wrong: NO it is only that we are at different level in the audio learning curve and maybe too because some people are more " tolerant" with the audio devices/links than others.
IMHO this " tolerant " diferent range level is what in some way preclude that our lovely hobby grow up and improve faster and the Verito is a good example of this subject ( like many other audio items. ), let me explain a little about:
in USA the people is very exigent in its everyday " services " that they receive: restaurants, what we buy on different kind of stores or supermarkets, how the employees in any store treat us, how we claim for a warranty service in any goods including our cars, etc, etc. ALMOST ALL OF YOU ARE NOT COMPLACENCY WITH WHAT YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO RECEIVE IN CHANGE FOR WHAT YOU PAY but in Audio your attitude is totaly different you pay big money for products like the Verito with out compliant about, maybe next time you will buy an audio item where to that item achieve a decent quality performance you have to find a " little sheet of paper coming for and only from Nepal " ( dramatization. ) where you have to have on hand to hear that audio item.
This " weird " attitude preclude/stop that the designers/builders/manufacturers/distributors be better. Why all of them have to improve when we customers " hold out " everything: we pay with out any compliant and with a " lamb " attitude.
I always ask: WHY? and I don't have a precise answer about.
IMHO the whole Audio Industry grow up for the better at the time that we IMPROVE like CUSTOMERS every single day and not because we need better audio designers.
Today we have what we deserve due to our " lamb " attitude. I invite you to change!!
regards and enjoy the music,
raul. |
Forgive me,BUT I would prefer that NO one stand on a soapbox and proclaim that they are the Messiah>Monty Python hit the nail:"He is the Messiah and I should know,I've followed a few"
If you do or don't like a product>>please state your view and the reasons,then let it stand on its' own.
I feel it serves ABSOLUTELY NO PURPOSE to turn an inquizative thread into a back-n-forth banter
We all need to remember that :We reap what we sow.
Gentlemen>>Lets remain civil.If we can't accomplish this than we will all lose out and the forums will become as useful as spent toilet tissue.
I have no control over my thread,but I would respectfully ask that this behavior cease.
Sometimes a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.Many designs that I have contributed to have lost their direction,due to a horse with blinders on mentality.They appear to focus on a single aspect and believe they have reached nirvana.Only to have the product rejected by the "community" as a whole.
. |
I take offene at the comments concerning We Americans and our lamb mentality.It is possible that you have not been taken advantage of,spent a year while fingers were pointed between a dealer (Hudson Audio) and an importer(Audio Advancements),and finally by the manufacturer,who felt I was not being honest about the troubles WE Americans were experiencing with their representation.
I bought a cartridge ,represented as new and within a year that units' cantilever collapsed,taking out a coil.
I really thought it was something I had done.It was not.I spent considerable monies to have my analog front-end checked for DC volts and shorts.None were found.
Then to finally be offered "to be taken care of",if I were to retract my statements made to JA.
My admiration of the performance of said cartridge,drove me to furnish a retraction against my better judgement>The importer then turned around and "cleared" himself by sending it to JA.Then he promptly turned around and dropped it back in my lap.The stated repair would run $1050 ,plus $200 shipping.
I refused to spend $1350 (it cost me $112 to get the cartridge to JA),plus the $1700 to restore the cartridge.
I ask,would anyone buy a $2K cartridge for over $3K?It is obvious to me that a cartridge rated for 10K hours,has been used extensively to collapse during the first year of use (I may listen to 3-4 sides of an LP,3-4 times a week).
I might have spent even more money chasing people around and going to court to try and resolve this.That is not how I wish to spend my time.In talking with several dealer (on various carts),I find that both have left dealers holding a lot of useless gear and misrepresented product that the consumer is now stuck with.
When you have had this kind of experience,YOU will certainly want to know who is behind the products you wish to include in your beloved system.
The Industry and its's representive persons have changed over the years here in the US,maybe due to OUR throw away society.This is no excuse for the way music lovers are treated when the issue of a "warranty" must finally be executed.Many Warranties (a piece of paper or a notation on a website) are only as good as those who stand behind them.When you deal with a bean-counter,you will always lose-it is strictly a matter of money (think "Fight Club",where Ed Norton is explaining when a company will do a re-call to the passenger next to him on a plane).
I don't know what to say any further.If you can display compassion for fellow human beings,my hat goes off to you. |
Dear Tpsonic: The " lamb " attitude is a common one all over the high end audio industry.
We receive new cartridges with a little bent cantilevers or a stylus tiny out of center in cantilever place, amplifiers with different gain/output impedance and frequency response in left and right channel, the same for preamps and other electronics, phono stages with different RIAA curve for each channel, electronics where the builder/distributor say that needs 500 hours to sounds good, recordings/LPs ( 50.00 each and more. ) with off center hole/waves/noise and the like, electronics full of distortions and inaccuracies, etc, etc.
This is what we have in each one audio systems and we accept it and follow buying these kind of audio goods/devices.
Gentlemans, those people are taking our money big money and they are not the culprit but us Customers that we accept it.
This is my concern. We are a " shame " ( no insult to any one. This is not the subject. ) like a Customer.
Tom, an apoligize to deviate your thread but I can't see that day by day our beloved hobby goes down and down in that mediocrity hole and we all Customers are helping to do it deppest. IMHO we are " supporting " products ( like the Verito. Their electronics are not better either. ) that don't deserve it in its today " version " because are more a unfinished product that a real product that is made with an excellence for the quality. I know that all the factors/environment that surrounded the high end audio industry makes things not only complex but in some areas almost impossible to fix but if we don't do nothing on the whole subject or at least " proclaim " about then things will stay almost in the same state for years to come and against the high end audio industry it self ( we are part of that high end audio industry. IMHO we don't exist like Audiophiles thank's to the high end audio industry but the high end audio industry exist thank's to us: mainly. )
Good that you go to the court on that cartridge problem. Of course that if each one made/make the same maybe there are not enought courts to solve the several audio claims and in the other side we don't want to use our time in court.
Anyway, I finish here with my concern in the subject and where my " way of thinking " makes that I share it with all of us. So return to the thread and my apologize to all of you.
regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Just for the record:
I did not at any point say the Verito did not sound "decent" - someone putting words in my mouth. I said I couldn't make it sound as good as in David's system. Well, his system, at the moment all Allnic gear - not tables/cables and arms, of course, sounded and sounds incredible. The Verito sounded wonderful in my system; any number of poor, woe-begotten, unenlightened, friends and acquaintances, audiophile and not, love it and have heard no issues with it. Peasants. All I have been/am doing is tweaking to try to bring the performance up even more. Hardly a shocking and unusual practice for the average audiophile - and perhaps I even stated my misgivings with some degree of hyperbole (not patronization, I hope)- also pretty unusual for audiophiles...What is unusual for some audiophiles, apparently, is knowledge of the commercial history of the development of some of the "giants" in the industry. Go read a review or two of an ARC SP9 (MK what?) for one example of thousands. As for "progress," go listen to the 1959 recording of Louis Armstrong's band "Satchmo plays King Oliver".
By the way, is this how you spell "megalomania"? I have no more time to participate. So please excuse me: I have to go tend to MY obsessive-compulsive disorder(s) now.
Good luck, all! |
Dear Gersimon: I'm sorry but ARC never been my kind of reference standard and I know very well that series you mentioned.
In the other side that Louis recording is superb no doubt about.
regards and enjoy the music,
raul. |
Agree with Raul.
ARC does not make a reference standard product of any type IMO.
But that's probably another thread in and of itself. |
Oh..... You guys never fail to entertain!!
With the endless back and forth.
What we need is a 25 year old, who is capable of actually hearing the frequency extremes we speak of, and has impeccable taste, of course, to conduct a shootout, and lay the issue to rest, for once and all!
In the meantime, I'm searching for one of those B&O mmc1 cartridges!!!!!
I always enjoy reading about this pricey stuff! |
How do you adjust the VTA with the Allnic?
If you look very exactly to the needle from the side and try to achieve a vertical position of the needle in the groove, i have the feeling to forced to rise the tonearm much more than with other cartridges and then the headshell and the downside of the cartridge is not parallel to the platter any more.
What are your experiences? |
I don't own an Allnic cartridge, but the object of VTA adjustment is really to obtain the proper SRA (Stylus Rake Angle). If that requires raising the rear of the tonearm so that the tonearm is no longer parallel to the LP, I say do it anyway. There is nothing sacred about that. |
Breezer:When did you receive your Verito?? I understand that a change was made on the last production run.These are being exchanged,as they have no lower mids,mid bass,bass.I sent mine back-it did have a wonderful top-end,but with the other elements missing I didn't keep it.
So to be honest,I haven't heard the real-deal.
What mine did was very good and if the "weight" had materialized,would have been a keeper.
I believe the cartridge body should be redesigned:a open ,hollow wood body is an invitation to resonances and doesn't protect the delicate inner workings.It may also do away with the need for a shim in metal headshells.YMMV. |
When the "next generation " Verito Z arrives in users hands (arms),will someone be willing to comment???
I understand the "original" was happiest in high-mass arms (IE:the Walker at 30+ grams).Much like the Myabi.
Is the Shilabe,the current production Myabi?? |
I installed my current model Verito Z over the weekend. Nobody should listen to a new cartridge until it has run in a few sides unless they enjoy suffering, but I did anyway, and suffer I did with some unusual wooly sound.
However, after about four sides, the Verito did a rapid ugly duckling to Swan transition, and although far from break in sounds very nice. With just a handful of hours it is easily competitive with my Clearaudio Harmon Mg, albeit my Harmony Mg is past 1500 hours from its Soundsmith ruby retip.
I have the Verito mounted on a Grandezza 10 inch arm with brass headshell. The recommendation is for effective mass of 16 g and above, and the Grandezza probably comes in at about 14 or 15g, but does not seem to be any kind of mismatch. The VTA is very slightly tiled upward at the tail but is very close to parallel with the cartridge body.
I am running a full Allnic preamplification chain with the Allnic head amp, H 3000 phono amp and L 5000 DHT preamp. With the Verito, I would call the sound "full flesh and blood with peyote buttons" and no, it is not just rock and roll because there is tons of internal detailing. I am entranced by some of my "heavy rotation" albums like Ginger Baker's "Middle Passage" and Miles Davis "Agharta".
I heard a demo in a dealer system over the weekend with the Air Tight PC-1(not supreme) and an ASR battery powered phono. That sound was more "audiophile x-ray" with lots of precision and detail but not much guts by comparison, but it was on a different system. The ASR/Air Tight was more of the "Jazz at the Pawnshop clinking glasses" type thing.
I am eager to hear what the Verito is going to do as it relaxes and settles in, it does not seem like it will be painful anyway. |
I received my replacement "new version" yesterday. I have about 8 sides on it and agree with Cjfrbw - but I'll add "Wow"; my spare previous version is also going back for replacement. No shim and no sibilance and it seems on track to hold to the other features of the previous cartridge. In general, I'd say the main difference is a tonal balance that is tipped somewhat lower, weightier bass, more texture and (maybe as a result) even more definite layering of the images of instruments. Same oustanding dynamics and speed and deeeecaaaaaayyy. An acquaintance who is a professional jazz player was over weekend before last and heard my system for the first time (with the previous version obviously). His comment, "I've never heard such realism! That's what I want - the real sound of instruments and being able to hear what every player is doing." I thought it sounded okay, too... I don't need that sort of validation but it's nice when it happens. Will have him over again at the next chance to see if he hears a change. In the meantime, I'm pretty happy to get an upgrade for the cost of shipping. Who else does that? Please tell me if you know, as it really appeals to the el cheapo in me. |
Thanks, Gersimon
I have 15+ hours and I am definitely getting some kickappoo "Wow" factor now. I feel fickle and faithless as I find my affection for my Clearaudio Harmony Mg fading.
I have the benefit of the full Allnic preamplification chain, which may offer particular synergies.
With the Verito, for the first time, I have been able to fully hear through the dense vocal and instrumental intermodulation of Oblivion Express' "Back to the Beginning". Whatever the Allnic products may offer in detail and dynamics, they never sacrifice rich tone, and the Vertio is consistent with that. I will write more as I get more hours on the cartridge.
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I have been using the Verito since its release a few years ago. Now I am on the Z and still using it in an ET2, this combination really sings. The ET2 appears to suit the Z down to the ground. I have also tried the Z in pivoted arms, the sound is there but not in the same league. The ET2 combo has a perfect and seamless presentation, my daughter is a Cellist and remarked that the Z was the most natural sounding cartridge that I have used. I have three TT's and seven arms installed, a bit of overkill or obsession I am sure. my main TT has two Moerch DP6 arms and an ET2. Comparisons are easy when there are two identical arms, this setup was used to compare the two Veritos and various carts belonging to my friends. BA's Mantis beat the Allnic in terms of bass depth, Nigels PC1 was on a par as was a Koetsu urushi. However when the Z went back on the ET2 none of the others sounded as integrated from top to bottom. I think the arm is more important than realised when using the Z. For the price I think that the Z represents outstanding value. For what it is worth I run my carts balanced into sowter 8055/4 trafos and then into balanced hybrid phono amps. My system could never be described as high end but it has excellent resolution and an accurate sound, it is more studio than HiFi.
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Hi,
I hope to be receiving a ''next generation'' Verito Z very soon...and will be using it on an Origin Live Conqueror Mk.3C
It will be mounted on an aluminium headshell, so I will be in the same situation as you.
I would also like to find out about using a wooden shim...just to see what differences it may make, so I would be grateful if anyone can help on the location / source of such a shim and its price...
Once the cartridge is run in, I would be happy to make more detailed comments as to performance and nature in my own system.
I have owned sevral cartridges, including Linn Arkiv Boron, Koetsu, Red, Onyx, Clearaudio Accurate, Benz Micro Glider 2, etc...and I am currently using a Zyx Airy 3S...
Until then, best wishes and of course luck! |
I have rounded the corner at about 100 hours.
Observations: So far the best cartridge I have had in my system, eclipsing the Clearaudio Harmony Mg. The Harmony Mg was Clearaudio's second from top of the line a few years ago, I have listened to the Harmony Mg with both the original boron cantilever and the Soundsmith Ruby retip, which increased detail in the Harmony Mg.
Break In: Requires a lot. The full output does not seem to settle in until after 50 hours or so. I started out with the preamp from 1PM to 2:15PM at first, gradually going down to currently 11AM to 12:15PM. This may indicate a suspension that requires a lot of use before full settling.
Detail: Enormous amount of detail, more than the Harmony Mg. I wondered about the aluminum cantilever, but without just cause, the Verito Z manages to recover more raw detail than either the boron or ruby retip on the Harmony Mg.
Compliance: The Verito Z seems to be an excellent match with my tone arm/ table. I think my Da Vinci 10 inch arm just makes the effective mass cut of about 16g for the low compliance cantilever, but the Verito might do even better with higher effective mass arms.
Dynamics: Opened up a lot from 30 to 60 hours and still seem to be opening up a bit with larger, more relaxed sound scape.
Midrange: This is where the Verito Z builds from and shines, an incredibly dense, layered detailed midrange. The Verito Z locks on to the beating heart of the midrange and doesn't let go. The Harmony Mg was excellent in this regard as well, but not nearly as good as the Verito Z.
Bass: Deep and resolute, excellent texture and solidity
High Frequencies: Very well balanced with the midrange, nice density like the midrange with lovely shimmer and overtones.
Overall, the Verito Z extends the impression I had when reviewing the Allnic head amp H2500 that the Allnic chain makes vinyl sound much more like the high quality reel to reel tapes I have heard in sound image, density, color and power. This seems to be a good direction to go since the analog tradition is based on high quality studio tapes. |
Any new experiences with the Allnic Verito? Some tonearm recommendations? |
The Verito Z seems to work best with higher mass tonearms. The cart weighs 9 grams, has a fairly high compliance and tracks at 2g. The metal mounting plate does help with the light weight issue.
Disclaimer: Allnic dealer |
Steve I'm sorry, but what model of ZYX, compared lhai? |
