ARE SUPER EXPENSIVE STREAMERS REALLY WORTH IT


Folks I am confused why some streamers need to be so eye wateringly expensive. I appreciate the internal basics need to be covered such as a high quality, low noise power supply and a decent processor speed etc..  but that is not rocket science.

So my question is could a decent streamer outputting its data stream via I2S to a good quality DAC receiving the I2S stream be a more cost effective way of rivalling let’s say a streamer costing 5k upwards.

I have heard and digested the argument for expensive streamers quality being centred around the management of the data timing via a quality clock circuit but there are very reasonable in relative terms, DAC’s out there that have dual super high quality temp controlled clocks within, at least the equal or arguably even better than the say a 5k streamer with some sporting dual high end DAC chips etc.

So could utilizing a good quality streamer and a separate high-quality DAC connected via I2S indeed offer significant benefits and potentially reduce the need for a very expensive streamer.

I say this with the knowledge that I2S is designed to preserve and separate the Signals so avoiding the timing issues connected with multiplexing. I2S (Inter-IC Sound) separates the music signal from the timing signal, potentially eliminating jitter or at the very least greatly reducing the possibility for the pesky music killing jitter which we all could agree would lead to improving overall sound quality.

Wouldn’t this separation ensure that the timing information is more accurately preserved, even when compared to a high price streamer, leading as clean or cleaner and more precise audio data output. With I2S, the DAC can use its own high-quality clock/s to synchronize the data, which will reduce jitter and improve sound quality.

Could this possibly mean that even if the streamer has a less advanced clock, the DAC’s superior clock can take over, ensuring best  performance.

So bang for buck would it not be advantageous to investing in a high-quality DAC and using a good but not necessarily top-tier streamer to achieve excellent sound quality without the need for an extremely expensive streamer. Surely the DAC’s performance will play a crucial role in the final sound quality.

Play gentle with the pile on please....................

nubiann

 

@nubiann Let's try this a different way. The only base caveat being is that the room and equipment need to be all that or close enough.

Many have done this. I did. 

1.) Mac book or Computer w/ generic wire into AMP or integrated.

2.) BlueSound w/ generic wire into AMP or integrated.

3.) BlueSound w/ generic wire into AMP or integrated with upgraded power supply and wire

3.A) Better wire

4.) All in one Streamer/DAC ($) into.....

5.) Better ($$) Streamer/DAC or separates and DAC into ....

6.) Filtered ethernet(Network Acoustics or the like) and audio or enterprise switch with very good wire/connects

7.) Better Streamer/DAC ($$$) or separates and DAC into...

8.) All the bells and whistles ($$$$) for a bit more nuance. Only for the best of the best resolving systems.

So yes, OP as long as the everything's jake, then a top tier streamer and great DAC or a super duper all in one is copacetic.

Chasing down how to get amazing sounding "digital" has a leaning curve and thanks to many here on Agon who are far more knowable than little 'ole me; I believe I now have a digital system that allows hours of pleasure with no fatigue. Got to go....time for my sound bath.

 

So there seems to be a lot of discussion about I2S vs usb here. I have my own experience which favors I2S but not going to extrapolate this is universal for all setups. I2S does have inherent advantages in that it is native signal path in dacs, it separates data from clock, a lone possible disadvantage is an external clock may be used vs internal dac clock, the theoretically better placement of clock is closest to signal path. So I have the choice to use the external OXCO clock in my Gaia DDC vs internal clocks in my dacs, both Femto, in other words I can sync or unsync clocks, in both cases the external OXCO clock in Gaia provides better sound quality than local clocks (this using 1/2M Tubulus Ximius I2S cable).

 

So for those who claim none of this is an inherent advantage of I2S, is it an inherent advantage to send signal on detour through usb boards of who knows what quality, only then to convert back to I2S? Is it an advantage to require the dac to separate clock from data?

 

Not saying usb can't sound good, I used it for at least a decade without complaint, only recently did I discover the I2S setup beat it. And over that decade I've used all manner of streamers with various usb implementation, tweaks and isolation of usb, very nice usb cables, dacs with some very nice usb boards including custom implementations. I2S belongs in the category of less is more which some seem to espouse, point being why do needless conversions.Not going to argue this point as I sometimes experience more is more such as optical conversion.

 

All in all, I'd take the battle of I2S vs usb on a case by case basis, optimize both and report back, actual experience counts for more than second hand repetition of some other person's experience.

With SPDIF and I2S, the source controls the master clock. With asynchronous USB, the destination controls the master clock. As such, the quality of result with SPDIF and I2S is primarily dictated by the source implementation and vice versa with USB. This distinction is important.

It has been demonstrated through independent, objective testing (Golden Sound, L7 Audio, etc.) and supported by followup listening that DACs that provide USB implementation that feature galvanic isolation and high quality clocks (e.g. Holo Audio) effectively eliminate noise and any jitter falls well below the audible threshold. This holds constant even from noisy sources, with no observable benefit from either switching to I2S, and inserting an expensive external DDC into the USB connection actually degraded performance.

A streamer brings the convenience of a single box that also includes an internal DAC. Alternatively, using an external DAC with a high level of USB performance opens the door to streaming from a computer based platform like HQPlayer ($300 USD), which enables high upsampling rates, PCM->DSD conversion, and a wealth of filters and modulators that offer measurable and audible advantages, all of which that lie well beyond the computing power of a streamer.

Whenever one purchases something super expensive and decides to keep it, that pretty much indicates it was deemed "worth it". Unless of course one is simply stuck with the purchase.

Now what happens a year or two later? Keep or sell for a loss? That’s the interesting part.

If you can sell without taking a loss....G-d Bless! How often does that really happen though for things bought new?

Honestly I've not heard any improvement in sound using I2S connectivity. I, using Denafrips Arcas and Pontus. Have tried HDMI I2S from Arcas to Pontus, also USB and SPDIF and haven't heard improvements. Have also tried connecting Roon on my NUC via USB directly to Pontus, there is slight difference in clarity. But not significant. I'd say get a good DAC, save on streamer and get some decent cables (whichever connection you chhose, but not Amazon Basic) and you should be good.