Atma-Sphere Class D… Amazing

@ricevs When you take your ego sword out and start swinging, you are not in a high vibration.....Do you love yourself, do you love me? 
 

I dunno about others on this esteemed audio forum , but I'm sure something could be arranged elsewhere.

@noske I was referring to independent measurements, such as those performed by John Atkinson for Stereophile. Should have made that clearer.

@twoleftears

40 years ago I learned you don’t listen to specs and measurements. Some of the best spec’ed gear sounds sterile, dry and lifeless. Try listening with your ears and then look at specs. Being there has been so many reviews. And quite a few regular people like me have posted their thoughts one what they heard. All with pretty respectable systems. None have said anything negative. Actually all so far very positive. Professional and Consumer reviews. Should mean something. Yes all subjective. But one common view point. So points to a common outcome. It’s like IT people 1’s and 0’s are always 1’s and 0’s. You can’t improve on that. Well it seems you can. DAC’s and Class D’s prove that everyday.

@pstores

40 years ago I learned you don’t listen to specs and measurements. Some of the best spec’ed gear sounds sterile, dry and lifeless.

Again, that’s your experience and your opinion. Some of the best spec’ed gear sounds anything but sterile, dry, and lifeless to others, so again, there is no universal truth to your statement, it’s just more opinion. It means nothing. Who cares how many people like something? Doesn’t mean anything to me. Because 1 billion people like ketchup does it mean I will? No, I don’t like ketchup. When it comes to personal preferences, no, professional reviews, consumer reviews, or any other sort addressing subjective matters of taste don’t have to mean anything and can never answer the ultimate question on a personal level- will I like it in my system in my room?

If you like it, that's really all that should matter to you. Whether or not other people share your opinion is not something you should be concerned about. Tastes differ, that's a fact.

Like I said we all can’t be wrong. It’s not just my opinion. But some of the best spec’d gear sounds terrible. Anyway you slice it. Just not my opinion. At the end of the day…. It’s how does it sounds when the switch is flipped. That’s truly the end game. At that point spec’s don’t mean squat. I have seen some specs from these amps. And am not to worried about that. As they eclipse any amp under $10,000 I’ve had in my system. I can’t say under $16,0000 yet because I haven’t been able to put the Pass Labs XA60.8 or a couple others.
And yes these are just my opinions.

Like I said we all can’t be wrong. It’s not just my opinion. But some of the best spec’d gear sounds terrible. Anyway you slice it. Just not my opinion. At the end of the day…. It’s how does it sound when the switch is flipped. That’s truly the end game. At that point spec’s don’t mean squat. I have seen some specs from these amps. But not measured ones. And not to worried about that. As they eclipse any amp under $10,000 I’ve had in my system. I can’t say under $16,0000 yet because I haven’t been able to put the Pass Labs XA60.8 or a couple others. 
  And yes these are just my opinions.

First of all, there is no right or wrong, they are opinions, not facts. It doesn't matter if it isn't just your opinion. There isn't any strength in numbers when it comes to opinions- why? because there is NO RIGHT OR WRONG! Doesn't matter how many people agree with you- there will always be those who don't.

Yes, again, they are just your opinions. Get over the need to be "right". It doesn't matter how many more expensive amps you've had, how many class d or other amps you have tried, how many of your friends like them, how many magazines praise them, if your wife likes them, your neighbor's dog likes them, etc. It doesn't mean someone won't dislike them, and that is perfectly fine. You don't have to justify your preferences. They could be $99 Chinese clones and if you said they sounded the best in your system and beat out $100,000 amps, and all your friends hated them, it still doesn't matter. It still isn't "right" or "wrong". It's a personal preference, that's it.

 

@kuribo 

  You do realize this is a circular conversation you don’t have to keep repeating right? Let’s move on the more reviews and view points others that have heard these amps have to say. I am interested in what others that have actually listen to them. See if they are the same, close or opposite my opinions. It’s nice to hear others experiences in their systems. And what systems they have. I am really interested in Tinears thoughts. As his system will be extremely revealing.

@pstores 

You are correct and folks that have pursued the best sound possible for decades… while may have somewhat different tastes will completely agree with you. If @kuribo likes tinny dead sound, like he said… it’s up to him. But, for folks without a lot of experience and that want a system that has an emotional connection with the user that mirrors real music, then specifications are not going to get you there. I learned this quickly over fifty years ago.

I don't know why measurements were even brought up if it doesn't have anything to do with opinion, then why bring it up?

@pstores 

I can see you have a deeply rooted need for affirmation. Does outside confirmation from others make the amps sounds better to you? If people say they don't like them, does that make you like them less?

 

I don't know why measurements were even brought up if it doesn't have anything to do with opinion, then why bring it up?

This is a never ending tactic - conflate comments in support of measurements as another tool to evaluate audio gear with their sole use in evaluating audio gear.

I have said repeatedly that measurements are useful to me in evaluating products as far as engineering, performance, suitability in my system vis a vis other components, etc. are concerned. I have also said repeatedly that the ultimate arbiter is how the equipment sounds in my system in my room. Yet over and over I hear the comments about how "I learned 50 years ago that measurements have nothing to do with the sound", "measurements are useless in determining how something will sounds", "go to ASR", blah blah blah. I can not help but conclude that several posters here have a reading comprehension deficiency and/or a fear and lack of understanding of things numerical and technical.

By the way, the designer of this class d amp surely used measurements to develop and engineer this amp. He also, based on comments he has made elsewhere, believes that measurements CAN indicate how an amp may sound, contrary to all those here who claim otherwise. Measurements and science play a crucial role in the design and development of audio products. They can be, if understood and properly interpreted, a very useful tool. BUT NOT THE ONLY TOOL.

@kuribo 

   Your opinion is the same Argument you use. It’s your opinion. You just keep this circular conversation going. I think it’s been covered. But when people keep on a circular conversation it’s about ego. I keep saying this opinion of yours has been cover over and over again. Let’s move on to real world opinions as what the spirit of the thread is about. 

The designer did use measurements, but I’m sure he didn’t  use just the measurements that are normally published in the manufacturer spec sheet.

@pstores 

Yes, you fail to understand the distinction between opinion and fact, as evidenced by your comments indicating there is a "right" and "wrong" and your need to validate your own opinions by having others share your opinions. I have failed to understand that no amount of explaining the logical fallacy you operate under is going to turn the light on. My mistake.

@invalid 

The designer did use measurements, but I’m sure he didn’t  use just the measurements that are normally published in the manufacturer spec sheet.

Who said he just used measurements?

@kuribo

You fail to see this is a circular conversation. And you opinion about specs is only an opinion. It’s simply your opinion. So let’s get back to others opinions on these amps. Instead of this circular conversation you seem to feed your ego with. Man when I post my opinions next week on the Aqua LaScala DAC I’ll be sure to state opinions from end users please. And not keyboard jockies with zero experience with said gear.

@pstores 

It's not a circular conversation. It's me trying to have a rational, logic based conversation with a wall. Shame on me.

I really wish people were sticking to the original topic of Atmasphere Class-D. Most of the people arguing here are providing negative contribution to the original topic. I wish it was 2005 again. That was when I joined Audiogon, and it was a great learning place!

@kuribo 

 yes it is… Your opinion on specs are just that…. A subjective opinion. You keep stating the same things Over and over and over again. When it’s just your opinion. I keep nicely asking if we can get back to others opinions with real world experience with these amps. You can’t seem to let it go and get back to others opinions. You’ve stated you opinion now let’s get the thread back to others opinions. 

@milpai

+100

Not sure about 2005. But 2006 was also great. Now hopefully back to others with with world experience with these amps.

@pstores 

I am not talking about specs. I am talking about your deeply rooted need for affirmation and the uselessness of other's opinions when it comes to evaluating equipment.

@kuribo

and that’s your opinion. So let’s now move onto what others with real world experience with these amps. And not keyboard jockies. How many times do people need to say that. I’ve probably said it 10 times.

Here’s a hint — if you just ignore @kuribo he’ll go away.  You’ll never change his mind, and no opinion matters to him except his own and he honestly doesn’t think he can learn anything from anyone else so there’s no point engaging him on any level.  Frankly, and in light of his mindset, I don’t even know why he’s here (short of being a total troll) because no one has any opinion or experience that are useful to him so why even bother?  Leave him to reading his spec sheets and the rest of us can continue sharing our honest opinions and thoughts, which is the whole point of this site.  Sheesh. 

@soix. 
 

+1 ignore @kuribo 

Finally an opinion we can all (well mostly all) agree with.  Hopefully we can now shut this fool up.

I think @kuribo posted this:

I have said repeatedly that measurements are useful to me in evaluating products as far as engineering, performance, suitability in my system vis a vis other components, etc. are concerned. I have also said repeatedly that the ultimate arbiter is how the equipment sounds in my system in my room. Yet over and over I hear the comments about how "I learned 50 years ago that measurements have nothing to do with the sound", "measurements are useless in determining how something will sounds", "go to ASR", blah blah blah. I can not help but conclude that several posters here have a reading comprehension deficiency and/or a fear and lack of understanding of things numerical and technical.

Whether one listens like @pstores, or uses metrics and numbers like @kuribo , it us hard to argue that this amp doesn’t tick all the boxes.
(But I have not heard it myself.)

The designer of the amp is also a bit prone to measurements, and explaining things technically… so it is not like the designer is into alchemy and magic.

And most learned people would not likely argue that the designer is a fool, and that technical aspects of the amp are foolish.

Kuribo is nothing more than a high functioning troll. 
He's just messing with everyone. Ignore him.

All the best,
Nonoise

@soix 

because no one has any opinion or experience that are useful to him so why even bother?  Leave him to reading his spec sheets

I wouldn't say no one has an opinion or experience that I wouldn't find useful but I can say with confidence that none of yours would be of use.

@nonoise 

Kuribo is nothing more than a high functioning troll. 

The usual name calling when the intellect is feeble and struggles to produce any intelligent or meaningful counterpoint.

@holmz 

learned people

Seems a shortage of such in this thread which is overpopulated with small minded intellectually feeble name callers who can neither rationally defend their position nor accept any idea which might challenge their misconceptions.

Another brand of class D monoblocks loose sound quality when stacked.

 Do these Atma-Sphere loose any sound quality when stacked?

Thanks,

aldnorab

@kuribo 

Thanks for agreeing with me and demonstrating so in your follow up posts.

All the best,
Nonoise

@nonoise 
Is that all you've got? Sad but as expected.

Another brand of class D monoblocks loose sound quality when stacked.

 Do these Atma-Sphere loose any sound quality when stacked?

Yes, absolutely. No, of course not. Maybe, it depends on who you ask.

@kuribo ,

What's it like going through life quarreling with those who don't see things your way? It must be all consuming for someone like you.

All the best,
Nonoise

@kuribo 
 

Seems a shortage of such in this thread which is overpopulated with small minded intellectually feeble name callers who can neither rationally defend their position nor accept any idea which might challenge their misconceptions.

I am not sure that it is helpful to refer to them as small minded and intellectually feeble.

They may appear feeble in mathematics and and engineering, but they could have other skills, which we may not posses…

And on the other side, we have the “everything matters” tribe, and “my ears are all that counts” group.

Ralph seems to have an amp that measures well and sounds great.
It seems like a lucky outcome to achieve both at once. 😎
… and it makes me wonder how he did that.

reminder memo on not feeding the t-r-o-l-l-s 🤫

less noise is better, music comes through with greater purity!  😂

Another brand of class D monoblocks loose sound quality when stacked.

 Do these Atma-Sphere loose any sound quality when stacked?

Thanks,

aldnorab

@aldnorab  What does “stacked” mean in your context?

I would be prone to only stacking one behind each speaker with a 1-2’ long cable connecting it up. But I think I am missing your point.

OP, did you say you had listened to some of the current generation Class non-GaN D amps from Hypex, Purifi, or Pascal?  Are those all ones you felt were dry etc.?

The only ones I have heard to date were the AGD, also GaN, not in my own system. They were completely clean, clear and enjoyable.

@pstores, the things similar to what you say about atmosphere class d amplifier was earlier declared in different threats in respect with the Peachtree GaN 400 and Voyager GaN 350 amplifiers, in particular. It is difficult to  visualize the extent of your observations without making a direct AB comparison with one of the above or other similar GaN amplifiers (these two are almost equivalent).  You mentioned about some Peachtree amplifiers that you had, but you didn't said if it was GaN 400 and if you did an AB comparison. That kind of report would really be useful.  Otherwise you are saying nothing particularly new. 

@holmz  I'm talking about stacking them on top of each other, on one rack shelf. The company that makes my class D amp often shows their monoblocks stacked. but reviewers and owners say it reduces sound quality. I tend to prefer short interconnects and longer speaker wires for system architecture.

Thanks,

aldnorab 

@kuribo is not a troll he is a vulture,

bronx cheer.

@holmz  I'm talking about stacking them on top of each other, on one rack shelf. The company that makes my class D amp often shows their monoblocks stacked. but reviewers and owners say it reduces sound quality. I tend to prefer short interconnects and longer speaker wires for system architecture.

That would put you in the minority.

Usually speaker wires/cables are better as the length goes to zero, and the XLRs are designed to handle longer runs.

But it would be a good question for the s designer to answer. <— @atmasphere 

@niodari 

    Yes as I stated the Nova 500 and the GAN 400. 

@tinear123 

Really nice

Would love to hear it

All... my initial report out of the Atma-Sphere-D compared to my Coincident Frankenstein Mk-2 300B amps. I listened for 11 hours yesterday deep into the night using a pattern of 2 hours between swapping then repeat. One thing to remember is in my system these amps are only driving my mid/high horns so from 300Hz to 21kHz thus I cannot speak to low frequency performance.

I generally listen to blues and classic rock so Etta James, The Commitments, BB King, Marsha Ball, Boney James, Diana Krall, Greg Porter, Eagles, Joe Walsh, Lenny Kravits, Los Lobos, Prince, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Van Morrison, 38 Special, ACDC, Beck, Boston, Chicago, Etc.

The AP-D frankly sounded very good and has a number of strengths as compared to my Frankies. First and foremost, the grip they had on my speakers was immediately apparent with mush improved transients and leading-edge crispness. High frequencies are clean and extended without being sharp and had more energy than my Frankies but the surprise for me was the increased power in the lower midrange to the point where I had to adjust my miniDSP xover for my LF amp to dial down the output curve in the 200Hz to 950Hz range. Of special note is the APD amps are dead quite even with my 112dD efficient horns.

The downside was that the 300B Frankies spanked the APD in the midrange as one would expect since this is the strength of 300Bs with a fuller more textured presentation with bloom and air. While the APD had good soundstage depth & width again the 300B Frankies are king of the road here as well.

In summary: I think the APD is much more accurate than the Frankies and would accel in most any system and I suspect they have authoritive base given the additional low extension power they provided with my mid-high horns. As for me, I think I may have been in the 300B world too long to walk away from the luscious midrange even with their shortcomings in ultimate accuracy. Special thanks to my dealer Koby at HiFi Logic in NJ for his flexibility for working me in.

The Atma-Sphere D's are in good company with the FirstWatt F7, FirstWatt SIT3, Cary 805C, PS-Audio M700, Benchmark AHB2 that have challenged the Frankies.  I will continue to search from time to time for a suitable solid-state tube amp replacement. 

Follow Up... While it sounds like I will never leave the 300B world please note that there is no turntable in my system after 25 years the Innuous streamer enabled divesting vinal 2 years ago and I’m perfectly happy with streaming.

@tinear,

   Thanks for your review. The Frankie’s are a great amp. And as you said excel in certain areas. I figured your review would be as such. As the AS Class D aren’t as good as my MA-1’s in the same areas. But your findings are basically mirror mine when comparing my MA-1’s. But there is no heat for summertime listening. Which is a bonus. Thanks again expressing your view point. 

@nonoise 

What's it like going through life quarreling with those who don't see things your way? It must be all consuming for someone like you.

I couldn't say, why don't you enlighten us?