Yes they are, I am sure other dealers carry them but The Cable Company is the importer and retailer. Contact John at 800.328.9733 for assistance. I replaced my 16.5 with one a few years back and have been extremely satisfied with the results. Re-clean the records that you have cleaned with your VPI and you’ll be surprised at the results.
Audio Desk cleaner.....still available?
I've been looking into this as my VPI 16.5 (from 35 years ago) has failed and I got taken on a "new open box" SOTA cleaner that was a trash heap no longer made (the site I used still says they are available on order....I called SOTA and they are not and you would not want one anyway). The Audio Desk and the Degritter are the likeliest candidates. The Audio Desk is or is not any longer in production/? Upscale Audio seems to have them, at least online. I was looking at a used one, likely the old model, but there are failure reports. I don't know about the new one, or whether it is even buyable. I'd prefer used if functional, but welcome opinions. The Degritter is the other option and it seems Galen Carol has them here in Texas. Info on that would be good too. I'm starting to think record cleaning companies are the audio equivalent of roofing companies. Advice welcome!!
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I had the Audio Desk twice. The first time, the pump failed and the company would not take it back but merely give me a light discount on a new one. I fell for it and bought the new one (an upgraded model with a better pump). When that pump failed this year, I did not even bother calling. I threw it in the garbage and purchased a KlAudio which works much better anyway. I assume the Degritter will too. Look around Audiogon and you will see that others have had the same issue. Someone here has a method to open the system and replace the pump. Not for me. I blindly trusted the German engineering aspect. A lesson learned. |
gpgr4blu, I am curious as to how many years did you have the 1st unit when the pump failed? If you don’t mind me asking, of course. I’ve had one for a few years but I don’t have a large collection and recently have spent way more time streaming than spinning. I just wonder if I have a similar adventure to look forward too. Thank you. |
The Audio Desk info has me thinking about the Degritter, which has pretty limited distribution despite a nice website. It's about $1K less than the Audio Desk, but the main issue for me, assuming it functions well, would be reliability. I have to admit that I was simply shocked to find the AD has a glued-together cabinet. For a device with obviously vulnerable innards (pumps, for heaven's sake) this is incredible. I'd like input form someone with Degritter experience. Sites carrying it seem to be small, exclusive dealers and the Degritter website says it takes a month after order to get one. In other words, they make them as they go. Anybody have one of these? That KlAudio one is really expensive. |
I've had a Mk 1 DeGritter for several years now and have cleaned many hundreds of records in it and it works perfectly today, just like it did when I first bought it. These are built VERY well. Mk II DeGritters seem to be available at many retailers (Music Direct being one of many) so I don't know about making them to order and I don't know why you'd want to consider ordering one and waiting a month. |
in my 30+ years owning the VPI 16.5 it has been dead nuts reliable, works well by direct comparison to a good US machine, is still in production, and is well supported by VPI. Unless one is burning to have a US RCM or wants the added convenience of the $5000 Clearaudio vacuum machine, I don’t get why you’d look for a used foreign made RCM with questionable if any factory support. US=UltraSonic. Sorry. |
My Degritter MkI soldiers on, and is in nearly daily use for three years now. Customer support is reported to be excellent, though I have had no occasion to use it. If considering one, here is a very long thread by users discussing their experiences. I do not rely upon it alone, and still use a Loricraft before the Degritter. |
I'm close to ponying up for the Degritter. I haven't seen anyone complain about performance or service and their website seems reputable, not to mention the pricey unit they're about to come out with that speaks of serious engineering. Final thing is their manual, which you can download, being a work of art among manuals. I'm thinking of not using a second tank for rinsing and getting a cheap Record Doctor to use up front with the Degritter cleaning fluid with the Degritter following, but only with distilled water (rinsing the LP at the same time). Anyone with thoughts on this is welcome. Problems with the AudioDisc seem unecessary and not understandable, especially in a German design. The Chinese, of all people, would not have done that. |
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gpgr4blu, thank you for your reply. I only clean 5-6 albums at a wack then can go months without cleaning any. Especially lately I have just been streaming. Your last comment that the AD was a mistake. Was that because of the mechanical issues or were you not satisfied with the results. One other note I might add is that I made a drain for the tank so that I can drain the unit when not in use, maybe that will help in my case. I just didn’t want the solution weakening or over strength due to evaporation. Again thank you |
@howardlee Sounds similar to my process, and I'm very happy with the results. |
Hi Theo: The results were good (better than my VPI although I sometimes used them in tandem for used records that needed a deep cleaning) but not great. I did not realize that until I put some of the same albums that I previously cleaned with my AD through my KL audio record cleaner which further reduced tics/pops that the AD did not remove. The disappointment came from the pump which is cheap and fragile. I purchased my second unit with an upgraded pump but that also suffered the same fate. For the price charged and the inability to send the unit for repair, Reiner Glass has some nerve asking for the thousands that I invested in his record cleaning machines. There are a number of threads on this forum re the pump in the AD and none speak favorably about this issue. |
The Audio Desk USC has a terrible reputation and track record. Prior to the introduction of the Degritter, the real competition to the Audio Desk was the Klaudio, which cleans better and doesn’t break. Mike at The In Groove Record Store (in Phoenix Arizona) has been running his quartet of Klaudio cleaners (that's quite an investment!) twelve hours a day for many years, with no problems. He made a video (posted below) showing his cleaning station in the back room of the store.
https://youtu.be/DoFDf7Ke_zg?si=GjZzv0iqPIzuts6J
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I’ve had both the AD and the KL (more about that in a minute), but started in the early ’80s with the first generation VPI- a Model 16 that had been converted to a 16.5. When I left NY at the very beginning of 2017, the VPI was still running fine and I gave it to a friend. The AD was very innovative but had teething problems- Robert Stein, the US importer worked pretty hard to help his customers- some of the issues weren’t complicated but the machine was not designed to be taken apart and fixed by users. Later, a "pro" model came out (at least that’s what I think it was called) which supposedly addressed some of the field experience with the original machine. (I say "supposedly" not b/c I think anyone is lying but I didn’t own that model so didn’t live with it), The KL went through a number of iterations- the original machines, some running changes- there was a switch on the front panel that was eliminated, a better cooling system was introduced and a model with an external water tank was later produced. It was at that point that KL folded its tent but Chad made a deal to sell a new and improved external tank version of the KL. It has various accessories, including a tap to tie into your home or building water system, and unlike the usual routine of using distilled, R/I or better, likes to see some minerality in the water. I believe this has been addressed in reviews. Hopefully, without jinxing myself, I’ve been running my KL -a mid era model with the cooling system, but no external tank--for some years. I can’t say I’ve cleaned millions of records but I’ve cleaned quite a few of my own and as a favor, for friends. It’s a well built machine. The version Chad now sells is probably just as well built, perhaps with a better filtration system, but it is expensive. The DeGritter has a lot of feedback from users on application, cycles, fluids, soft or firmware upgrades via the Internet on the SH Forum where I think the most extensive discussion of the machine by actual owners, not reviewers, exists. I did not view the US method as a substitute for more traditional manual clean and vacuum, but as a complementary method that produced better results (the word "synergy" is over-used in audio). There is also the DIY market, which is not necessarily for cheapskates- e.g. the ultrasonic baths alone can cost what a complete made for LP cleaning machine costs, without spinner or drying facilities, filtering, etc. There’s a fair amount of published literature on the subject. One product fave in that area is the Elma brand, but you’ve got to be prepared to spend on the necessary accessories to spin the record and dry it, leaving aside filtering and cooling. I’ve spent a fair amount of time researching the subject and, like an old car mechanic that still drives a ’60s Cadillac, use a Monks Omni and the KL (mid-era, not the outside tank version offered by KL or now by Chad). My conclusion--much is in method, not machinery. US offers convenience and I think it does add a certain additional refinement to the sound of an otherwise clean record. I do not use any chemistry in the KL; some US machines rely on chemistry to lower surface tension of the water to make the implosions more impactful. There’s a fair amount written (won’t get into accuracy) about "power" "frequency" and the like. You need to read up if you are spending 4k on an RCM. Reliability is also key, One of the things I like about the now antiquarian Monks is that is it classic British engineering- (no, it doesn’t leak oil and the lights don’t go out). I would not flatly recommend one machine over another without knowing the user’s volume, expectations and the condition of the records being cleaned. Here’s my cleaning station from a few years ago, sans the record flattener and a couple shelves of chemicals: |
Hello We've been the Canadian importers for Audiodesk for over a dozen years. And we also sell the Degritter in Canada. The Audiodesk Systeme I really like due to the spinning cotton barrels and the Ultrasonic action. They are good units and have become more reliable and easier to repair in the field. We carry the degritter as it is very popular and does a fine job. We have the new MK2 in stock as well as the latest Audiodesk. Thanks |
Kl audio seems the best on the market right now as far as reliability and an all-in - one machine If you want reliability and don’t mind a 15 minute air dry I would recommend the Elmasonic P90 H It’s an ultrasonic that produces 30 and 90 hz cavitation Mine has been bullet proof for 4 years now and the results are near perfect. With this one you must locate at rotisserie as this is just a high quality machine Last I looked it was in the $1500 range but no moving parts to fail unlike the all in one machines. record cleaning service and never needed to look elsewhere Good luck Willy-T |
AudioDesk works really well, but mine died after cleaning approx. 500 records and I too was offered a slight discount on a new one OR sending it back to Germany at great expense with an unknown outcome. But it looks like a garage experiment - the engineering and design is awful. I now have a HumminGuru which is good enough as I rarely buy used records. |
For a coupla hundred bucks you can buy a Vevor 6L USC machine with a simple LP lowering arm on Amazon. It's a good way to try out ultra-sonic cleaning on the cheap. The US frequency is 40kHz, and features no water filtering or drying. For a coupla hundred bucks more you can get the original Humminguru, which does include filtering and drying.
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