Audio Technica AT-33PTG vs Denon 103R cartridge

I use the AT 33EV [I have never been able to find out how it is different from the PTG] which is often found on J&R for $400. Two of my friends have bought them after hearing mine. I have used the regular 103 but not the R. I suspect the AT might be a better match for your tone arm but have never used them together. The Denon and AT are both good but sound somewhat different. From my experience with the 103, which is somewhat different than the R, I think the AT would be a little more neutral while the Denon would be a little punchier and more romantic. Either sounds good and both are quite cheap for level of sound quality. Assuming your tone arm likes the R you couldn't go wrong either way.

I've owned/used both for substantial time periods.
This is a "no contest" with the nod going to the AT33PTG.
In my informed opinion it sounds better than the Denon 103R in every way.

Doak has it 100% correct. Sounds better in every way!

AT if you rock,Denon if you classical.

The AT will be a better match for your arm. (and it's a better sounding cart)

I agree with the others, AT33PTG will be more suitable for the tonearm in question. I have a superseded AT33 PTG and it is better than stock 103R in most way, better high frequency, more detailed, articulate bass and better tracking on medium mass arms. Denon 103R is more demanding on the partnering tonearm and phonostage and I only enjoy mine after it is rebodied and upgraded with sapphire cantilever and paratrace stylus by Expert Stylus Co in UK. The upgraded 103R is a totally different thing on a heavy arm.

AT33PTG used to sell for $350 which is great bargain, the latest Mk2 has a substantial price hike but still good value IMO. Has anyone compared the mk2 to the old 33PTG?

Stanwal: The 33PTG has different (better) cantilever and stylus than the EV = better sound. Built like a Bently too.

Schubert: I understand what you mean, though IMO the AT33PTG sounds REALLY good playing anything. The 103(R) is limited to "rocking out" due to lack of finesse

AS i recall the Ditton tweeters might not the AT be an ear bleeder?

I agree with Doak's comment that the 103R lacks finesse. That in a nutshell is my main objection to it. I haven't heard the 33PTG, but I am quite familiar with the 33EV and it is a really good cartridge by any measure. It's also an amazing bargain.

Have any of you PTG users compared the series I to the II?
Both appear to be still available online - with the series 1 cheaper.
While compliance appears the same (and highish for an MC) - the PTG series II is lower output than the PTG series I - 0.3 vs 0.5mV - and correspondingly lower resistance/inductance (from less windings one presumes).
All things being equal, lower output versions often tend to have a more pure/immediate sound.
What have users found?

Tobes: Yep, the Series II is a bit of a different animal. I haven't heard it. The coil resistance is different too - 17 ohm for the Series I vs. 10 ohm for the series II. This too could affect how well they match with various phono preamps/and SUTs.

I can say that I've been through 3 AT33PTG using a modded EAR 834P -- stock SUT - and IMO it's a marriage made in heaven. :-0

Doak

Doak, my intention would be to use the PTG with my Choir Audio H7 SUT on its high gain setting (1:28 ratio) - this works superbly with the Denon 103R in my system.
I think the PTG-II would likely be the better match in terms of both output and impedence matching.....though you can never tell for sure without trying.
Love to hear from someone who has actually tried the PTG with the H7 SUT.

Finally returned to this post... years later. Still have the MMF 5.1, but now using a Roland model 1 amp, Audible Illusions preamp, and Cotter mkII mc stage. Also got Aerial model 9s, so only the tt is the same. Finally time to upgrade the cart. IMHO the 103r is vastly better than the Goldring 1022. I’m after the Model ii if affordable .