I had a pair of N803 a few years ago. They were by far the most expensive speakers I'd ever owned (up till then). Me and my friend had a listen and both agreed the highs and mids were sensational. Imaging was uncanny, and probably still the best I've heard from a speaker. But both also agreed there was no bass at all. I under that the 803 is small, and perhaps I should've gone to the 802/1/0. However given the price of the N803 at the time, I was amazed anyone would buy them due to the lack of bass. I could've changed all my other equipment and moved them around etc, but I just ended up getting other speakers which were more suitable to me. Before everyone jumps on me for being deaf and stupid. I'm just saying this was my experience and what I think, you may disagree. But personally from the 803 experience, I would spend the same money for any given B&W 8XX and get some other speaker in the same price bracket. I like my bass and I think it's too much money to spend on speakers which don't have enough of it. |
I have B&W Matrix 802 series 3 with a Classe amp and an ARC tube linestage. I get incredible bass and slam. Im very happy. And yes, the music touches my soul. Anyone in the Long Island area is welcome to come and take a listen. |
I have a pair of N800's and using them with a pair of krell mda500's and with good quality recordings there is ample bass.I did find that before i got the mda500's the bass was much thinner when using cheaper inferior amplification. |
I agree with JPPENN, unfortunately you can't get a pair of $16,000 reference speaker's to run with Adcom amplification. I tried doing what your doing, I had a McIntosh C200, B&W 802's, a Sony SCD-1 and I tried to cut a corner by running cheap amplification powered by B&K. Although B&K makes a good amp, to get excellent results, you do need something better. My recommnedation is to scale back on the 800's and get a pair of 801's or 802's and buy a better amp. McIntosh works great with B&W's. Thanks! |
Why would you buy a $16,000 speaker without listening to them first? |
I have had B&W Matrix 802, Nautilus 802 and 802 D.
They definitely lack of bass... among other things.
(In the past, the medium was great... it has become rude to my ears).
And I was a B&W fan .... !
I changed my Nautilus 802D for Zingali Monitor 115, with a huge 39cm bass speaker !
Another story, much better !
And all the same ! Better midrange and high, thanks to the Omniray.
I don't understand what's happening to B&W : my 1980 Matrix pair for 3000$ was better than my 12'000$ Nautilus... |
I beg to differ Lawyerman.
B&W 800N (Nautilus speakers) are incredible speakers! They give you all the bass and dynamics that one would ever need.
The B&W Nautilus 800 Needs the right equipment. At this level there is no room to take shortcuts. A lot of clean power, and excellent electronics, cables. And you'll hear these babies sing.
I Highly recommend the B&W 800N speakers. In fact I like them more than there new 800D speakers. Both great speakers just a matter of taste. And that is another forum topic for another day. |
I am glad you are Happy Baffled ! Great for you.
Maybe I was a little too hard on poor ole B&W. |
Lawyerman......I am happy to say I paid less than 6000.00. Perfect condition. I like 'em even better now! |
The B&W Nautilus 800 is very disappointing. That is why B&W does even want to talk about the Nautilus series. The B&W 800D is so superior over the Nautilus 800.
A few years ago I went down to a Hi-Fi Store , and they had the B&W Nautilus 800 set up. We had over $100K in electronics , cables hooked up to them and that is what I said "where the heck is the bass" ?? Very lean and bright and lacking slam in the midbass where is needed. My Sonus Faber Extrema speakers have more bass.
The B&W Nautilus 800 (800N) was not very natural sounding.
Live performances in both analog and digital were very thinned out and at times irritating.
For $16K price tage the B&W Nautilus is ridiculous. Even the candid dealer took me on the side and said B&W really &%#@! screwed up on this speaker. I earned the respect of this B&W dealer after he was very truthful with me.
I went down recently down to the same B&W dealer and now he has the 800D setup. WOW!!!! What a difference a letter can make.
In my personal opionion and many agree with me, the B&W 800 Nautilus was a short lived DOG. Even at the preowned price of $7K-8K range they are not a good choice. |
I just read through this thread.. Comical!
Chris |
Just think how good that new front-end would sound on some good speakers!
(That ought to get people going) |
Actually, Zaike, that's a very good point you're making & I agree totally.
In a similar spirit, other mass manufacturers also produce highly performant products (take B&O & Sony for one spkr model each) -- and no, they aren't hand crafted either, but they're sometimes cheaper than their garage equivalents, as they SHOULD be.
The only thing that sometimes annoys me is that manufacturers with huge resources, i.e. lower R&D & production cost, charge too high prices for certain of their products... Not being B&W's CFO, I feel justified in ranting at the asking price of their small models. Indeed, just compare the price of a 805 to the 800...
End of ranting. |
Baffled: Your tale is both instructive and heartening, ignore the other stuff. In audiophilia you find that any company of a certain size or larger, and especially one that does as much original science r&d as B&W and has one leg in the mass market, makes an inviting target for a disproportionate share of bashing. Guys like to champion shoestring causes and rail against the establishment, but companies like B&W (actually, there really is no other speaker company quite like B&W) oppress nobody, as evidenced by the continual plethora of garage start-ups in the high end speaker biz. Every David needs his Goliath. Personally, I find it comforting that the largest speaker company on the planet also happens to take good sound seriously and makes a quality product. No, they're not hand-crafted and yes, they're sold at chain stores, but they're not evil, just uncommonly competent by and large. For the record, I don't own 'em, sell 'em, or even necessarily prefer 'em in lots of instances, but I do respect and appreciate them. Enjoy your system secure in the knowledge that for the most part the rude detractors are merely jealous. |
I must say all of the negative comments on B&W had me thinking about replacing my speakers. I am happy to say it never was the speakers. It was everything else! My system is now Aesthetix Calypso, Musical Fidelity Tri Vista, and Classe mono's. I no longer use or need a sub. With tubes in the system, my speakers sound as good as the well regarded speakers I have auditioned and not bright at all. Listening to these speakers in a poor system is probably what leads to all of the B&W bashing.(just a guess) With the wrong front end they can sound pretty bad. To those who disagree, that's fine. I respect your opinion. No need to rehash. Can we just let this thread die? It is slightly embarassing that I started it by complaining about the only good piece of gear I owned at the time. |
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WHY CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG.FIGHTING IS STUPID.WE ARE HERE TO SHARE AND HAVE FUN. NOT FIGHT AND CALL EACH OTHER BAD NAMES. THIS IS VERY UPSETTING TO ME. YOU GUYS HAVE TURNED ME OFF. YOU GUYS THAT LIKE TO START UP.DO ME A FAVOR.DONT EVER BUY FROM ME. I WOULD NEVER BUY FROM YOU OR ASK YOU FOR ANY HELP. SEEK G-D!!!!!!!! |
Charlie, you sound like a hater I used to know
regards |
Bet the room is too small, and the old speakers had a mid-bass bump. Get better amp, and use vinyl for more bass. If your room is small, it is physically impossible to get low bass. The 800's are more accurate than the cdm 9 and won't add bass for effect, so you must get it out of your amp,source, and music. |
Thumbs up. I'm happy for you. Be careful with the tubes on on your speakers. They will reveal the hiss of tubes if you use them on preamp. This drove me nuts with my Conrad Johnson PV 9. Think about bi amping. You will open up the next door on your journey. Good luck |
Congratulations. You can't argue with success. |
This is baffled....the Audiogoner formerly known as ahcjmh1@prodigy.net. I started this thread eight months ago when I was just getting my feet wet in this hobby. I am happy to say that I found SOME of the bass when I replaced my Adcom amp with Classe. I found ALL of the 800's bass when I replaced my Denon 3910 with a Musical Fidelity Tri Vista tube CDP. All cables have also been replaced. I have an Aesthetix Calypso on the way. These speakers continue to amaze me as I upgrade my digital front end. No complaints....no worries......just good music. |
To those of you who have been following me I have said all along that speakers are the most important part of any system. When you get to speakers this high up in the food chain. You can tell the difference in amps, wires, etc. We need understand we all hear differently. And as we get older our hearing changes too. And from what I understand it's not for the better. Not like cables that need to be burned in. Been reading everyones input, thanks. I would have to revise my pervious statement to include volume as a factor. I listen to a level higher that most. The only reason I know this is the average person when they come over to visit they ask me to turn it down. I didn't think about this when I added my input. Loudness does matter. BIG X FACTOR!!!!! SO I can easly see where 2 people listen to same speaker and walk away with different impression Based on volume alone. All speakers have there sweet zone. I have McIntosh XTR 28 that I love loud. I have B&W for the softer moments in my life. |
B&W's, especially the 800 series are used in many reference systems. People who understand how to drive them know how wonderful these speakers are. Driving 800's with an Adcom is like asking a whale to swim in a small pond. IMHO, the 800's need at least 300 watts a side before they begin to breath properly...they may even leave the water and do a few rollovers! |
Charlie101,
Your actions speak to your deficits much more than any insult anyone could conjure up to describe you. You treat people like objects, like you treat the subject matter of B&W speakers.
What is wrong with working at Wal Mart BTW? Charlie101 needs to take some Economics 101, not everyone lets mommy and daddy support them instead of getting a job, and there aren't enough jobs in the marketplace for eveyone to be a CEO at Tweeters.
You've gone from insulting speakers to insulting the blue collar working class. Good work, you are truly a spoiled jackass. |
Kevin,
You're wasting time here and better get going or you'll miss your shift at Wal Mart. |
Charlie101-You talk about having anything to offer,go back and read your 14 posts as I did and tell us all what positive information you have ever added to any thread.It seems to me you are just here on some kind of mission to attack one,rather to engage in some type of meaningful audio dicussion.FWIW--JMHO Kevin |
Because you are a soft and cushy target madam. |
"Coming from you that means absolutely nothing. I've read your other posts and it is clear you have nothing meaningful to offer."
Nothing? Why, dear sir, do you keep responding then? 'The lady doth protest too much, methinks.' |
Ouch!! Coming from you that means absolutely nothing. I've read your other posts and it is clear you have nothing meaningful to offer. So now it's my turn, you sir are an ignoramus. |
Charlie101,
"It is a subjective hobby, no one made Charlie101 the authority on the best speaker, there is no such authority, and your comments make you seem like an ignoramus."
Notice I said, "make you seem like an ignoramus"...
"The only things worth bashing on this forum are weasels like you who hide behind anonymity."
Weasles like you do ruin audio for the rest of us. Actions speak louder than words, I'm just putting some adjectives to your actions. I still don't see any name calling, "weasel" is the perfect characterization of your behavior. As you said, and I think you said it best, "one must consider the source I suppose". Indeed, "weasel" does fit you (the source) very well according to your actions. |
Ignoramus? Weasels? Name calling? That is not very becoming however one must consider the source I suppose. |
Oh, Charlie101 is another B&W basher, go figure. Look a few posts up... Boy the insecure really come out of the woodwork to bash B&W when they see their paychecks fading.
I'm actually getting rid of the B&W speakers I owned because I preferred a pair of Wilson Watt Puppy 7s with the Ayre gear I have been purchasing. You don't see me going around bashing speakers because I have nothing better to do with my time, or because I prefer one over the other. I don't go around bashing speakers I've owned or speakers I have not owned. It is a subjective hobby, no one made Charlie101 the authority on the best speaker, there is no such authority, and your comments make you seem like an ignoramus. People like you and Judy ruin home audio. The only things worth bashing on this forum are weasels like you who hide behind anonymity.
I used to own 700 series HT B&W speakers awhile ago as well, and I absolutely loved them. I decided to switch over to pure audio for better sound over surround systems where I could not invest as much into the stereo speakers for better music playback. I did not prefer the sound of the B&W 800D to the Wilson I had demo-ed, or I would have done a trade-in on my last pair of B&Ws with the B&W dealer. |
Anybody think that Jkalman might be a b&w owner? Something smells here. |
I wouldn't lend any credence to anything Judy426 says about B&W, he/she has a history of bashing B&W on these fora which can be seen by viewing his/her previous posts and posting habits. This person goes out of his/her way to actively insult speakers that B&W makes, which leads some of us to believe that hs/her business may be threatened by B&W's popularity, or that he/she probably sells speakers that are in direct competition but not as sellable.
Most people don't post at all on threads for speakers they don't like. Why? Because speaker enjoyment has a level of subjectivity involved in it, which Judy ignorantly denies by making such generalizations about B&W as she did at the beginning of this thread. He/she makes an effort to attack those companies whose speakers he/she doesn't like while the vast majority of Audiogon users act with more maturity. His/her actions are what most of us would call unethical and cowardly.
Welcome to Audiogon, thought you could use a heads up on the type of closed minded people to ignore on this website so you can get more benefit from using it. :) |
I think a system is musical when It can touch your soul. And that will always be a personal taste. You have to think about the sound you are looking for. I advise and sell different cables to people who hve many times very expensive systems. The problem you find all those times is that they do not have the knowledge to make the right combination, and in our country ( The Netherlands )the people who work in this business have that knowledge either. Many people are looing al thos years for the sound the are looking for. They spend a lot of money and they never will be satisfied. So the people who work in this business have to learn to listen to there clients instead of that customers have to listen to them.
Bobby |
When you have tried and compared many loudspeakers, amps, cables of many brands, sources, conditioners etc you understand what they can do in a system. When you talk to a person about his system and what he ( and sometimes a she ) wants to change you use the properties of all the brands there are to find that sound that person is looking for. Because with the right combination of equipment that person will be satisfied and will listen to Music for many hours. Instead of listenig to equipment and looking for the sound you are looking for. ( all those years ) Music will touch your hart when you understand the art of making the right combination..... |
>>Flat lifeless bass - not musical at all.<<
Ah yes, the B&W sonic signature. Glorious huh? |
I remember being at a B&W dealer and listening to the N803, and after a couple of minutes I'm getting into the groove and liking the sound well enough. I look over and see this big B&W subwoofer sitting on the side. I ask the dealer if the sub is on? "No." I listen some more, it doesn't sound right. I go over and put my hand on the sub, it is on after all. "Woops!" The dealer sets it up right, and then it is clear why he was trying to sneak the sub in. Flat lifeless bass - not musical at all. |
>>I am well known in the audio world for many years<<
Are you as well known for your humility?
:-) |
Someday the B&W will officially join the ranks of Bose. Overpriced and hyped speakers that are easily bested by cheaper speakers by lesser known brands. |
I am well known in the audio world for many years. I used 802 Nautilus speakers for more than 6 years and now I use 800 Nautilus speakers. I modified some parts of the 802's and used rubber absorbers. Because by using these absorbers the middle and high freq. will be less harsh and the low will be more tight. What equipment you put to you speakers will come out of your speakers. When you listen to your system you hear to every part of your system and of course your room. Every part has his own property. That means when you use more different brands you can use more properties. The sound you like is 100% personal. So you have to look for the sound you like most. When you use power amplifiers of less power, you will get less bass and a less realistic sound of low freq. When you have a big room you need more power to get a full sound in your room. Oh yes the 800 needs power to get a good and realistic sound in the low freq. But when you use the right equipment it can do things only a few speakers can do. The focus of this speaker is of a level I never heard before. When you play accoustic music with a few instruments it is very intimate. You can give every player a hand when you are listening. When you do would play this music by a Wilson or the Vocal speakers you will miss this feeling. It is less intimate and it does not reach you soul inside. It is a 100% fact that Nautilus speakers dominate the market. I don't like the way the way th advertise. But the sell over 50& of the whole highendmarket. That means the rest all together sell less. It is also a fact that this speaker is used in many studio's. When a person says that the don't he has to come with facts before he makes this anouncements. Some people call this speaker lean, but I call it neutral. It is less lean than Avalon speakers are, because the bass is muce more warm and sounds rounder. With my system it sounds very musical, detailed, fast, a lot of depth, a focus to die for, a wide stage and very intimidate
My system: 800 Nautilus, Meridian 800 V4 ( model 2005), Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista 300 power, Nordost Valhalla speaker cable, 2 Valhalla powercables, 1 MIT AC-1 Oracle powercable, Acapella rca with WBT Nextgen, feet of silence, KE Powersource ( conditioner )
I have listen many times to the 800's with Mark Levenson and Classe, but I never liked the sound of it. It never touched my soul, and that is where music is all about. My hobby first is music and after that my hobby and my work is audio and also vison. A system is just something to play music with, that is the essential part of it all.
Bobby |
ahcjmh1@......now sit back, put yr feet up and close yr eyes and just listen to the N800 subwoofer and wide wide soundstage...... |
Just received my Classe 700 W mono block amps. Sincere thanks to those who suggested I lose the Adcom amp. You were all right on the money. These 800's have so much bass now I cannot believe an amp change could make such a difference. Mids and highs dramatically improved as well. As a new guy I just learned a valuable lesson about watts AND current. I even dragged out my 25 yr old Cerwin Vegas from the garage system and tried them on the new amps. Seemed like a harmless experiment at the time. Now I am shopping for a new amp for the garage! Thanks to all who responded. |
Avent91, The amps are Chord Electronics SPM6000 monoblocks. 750wats/speaker. Cables are Transparent reference XL, the current version. |
Everybody can have a say. From Judy to ahcjmh1@. So here's mine
Reality does bite and when all is said and done, the B&Ws need power and current. So the combination of amp + speaker cables is rather critical. I power my 802N with a pair of Mark Levinson 33 amps via 2 separate pairs of Transparent Reference speaker cables for biwiring setup. The ML33 are supplied with individual 35A power lines from my AC mains box. So plenty of current on demand the music is just seamless.
The N800 have an internally built downfiring subwoofer. Well designed and sounds very tight. Again it needs current to run it. No point if the amp is rated 300W but unable to provide high current output continuously on demand. I have heard a thumping drum track like never before on the 800 but each were powered by ML 33H (which ran hot).
Power amps that share a common transformer beware, the 800 and 802 will soak up current like never before......IMHO better to go with monoblocks each powering the 800 or 802s.
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Arcoleo, what amps are you using with your 800N's ? |
Arcoleo, Thanks for the suggestion. I will try repositioning the speakers first. If that doesn't work, then maybe I'll try different cables. |
Avent91.. Transparent Cables had a fairly significant positive effect on the sound reproduction with my 800N's. Important though to use Transparent for all cables, I/C and speaker to realise the full effect. The 800N's have the ability to produce accurate and tight base in an effortless manor with the right amps. |
Ok, I am already at 300 (questionable) WPC and it does not seem to be enough. I did move the speakers to 6 ft apart (from 10 ft) and that made a noticeable improvement. I am paying close attention to the advise from snickelfritz (something I never thought I would say out loud) and it makes sense. However, those floppy little woofers sound pretty good to me. If I could get the 800's to work half as hard as the 9's do it would be nirvana. Curious to see what the new amps and cables will do.
Nothing personal snickelfritz....it's the name, not the advise! |
