Sorry I came across... cross. I have heard the Tact over and over through many transformations. It is amazing to me the TacT people don't improve their product from the outset. To my ears, the things that produced the most positive differences were after market ferrite cloths, and ferrite protected power cords. I haven't come to an equally easy conclusion about the profit gained by inserting Black Gate mods.
We also can't rush to judgement against a new product. Synergy is everything. I don't know why one would assume the TacT houses a cutting edge DAC. I doubt if the older TacT pre-amp has the same DAC as the TacT amp.
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1953- I agree with you, for $2K the H2O sounds very interesting. I just think, for someone who running a two channel rig, the TacT's ability to eliminate the preamp,
DAC and extra cables are worth the extra $900.
Muralman1- first, I said the amp our friend heard was a prototype, and it was our same friend that suggested the
use of high speed diodes and better parts to Henry, after
he heard what these improvement did in his TacT system.
I know you're excited about the H20, but with the mods I've done on the TacT amps, they're not "dry and analytical."
You know my friend, but you don't know me. I'm told you're a really great guy, but please don't made unsupported statement like "unapproachable by TacT, even with a thousand dollars upgrades," unless you've heard a tweaked out TacT system like mine or Mr.Perry's.
The mods don't cost "thousand dollars," try a $100.
worth of parts applied in the right area, some electronics knowledge and skill.
I'm not your enemy man. I want to see other digital amps come to market and push the development process of this new technolgy into high gear.
As I told you, I'd be happy to lend an ear and my mana'o
to the H2O's development process.
Contact me off line, or get my number from our friend and give me a call.
Aloha,
Dan
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Kana, that was a prototype we begged for to be passed about to Apogee members despite it being premature. We didn't mean for it's performance to be made public. I'm sure you were told it was a prototype amp. Though it is similar to the production model in capacitance, transformer, and power supply, it lacked the filters, fast diodes, and quality parts of the production model.
The prototype is still a class above any solid state amp I've heard including the TacT. The H2O is an analogue amp, and I don't care how much tweaking you do to the Tact it is still a digital switcher. I know your friend, and I know his preferences. I don't share them. The sound differences between the two are dry and analytical for the TacT, compared to natural and true to life for the H2O.
I have the H2O monos now, and it, with the production improvements I mentioned, is a cut above the prototype, and unapproachable by TacT, even with a thousand dollars upgrades.
Now, if only I can get a pre-amp of equal stature. |
Hey Kana813. Yeah a chum on the forum keeps bugging me about the power supply & Black Gate upgrades. Unfortunately, the 2.2X is not mine but on loan from a friend. It's an amazing piece though and once you crack its user interface it's straight forward to use. I'm saving my doe for the TCS MKII as I need 8 channels...for my quad amped Divas of course. The 2.2X let me see (and hear)how Apogee completely hosed up the application of the single element ribbon tweeter on the Diva via the passive x-over but also allowed me to hear what a stunning product the Diva can be when the ribbons are properly driven directly. I imagine Maggies would respond in a very similar fashion.
Also hear you about an all Tact system. I'm building towards that but right now the ICEH20's are a steal. For $2000 brand new I can't think of a better sounding amp right now also frees up the music so well. The production versions sound noticably better than the prototype. I've a feeling in the context of a "normal" system,(read non-Tact based)the ICEH20 would be the superior product, IMHO. |
1953- You use a TacT RCS 2.2X, has its' power supply been upgrade? If not you're missing out on a very large performance improvement. Have you tried the TacT
2150 amps? I have a friend who also uses Apogee speakers
with a 2.2X. His lightly modified 2150 drives the Apogee without any problems. He has heard the H20 prototype on his system and preferred the 2150. TacT is also working on a more powerful version of their all digital amp.
I agree with you that this new crop of amps represents the future direction of audio. |
Well, well, well..it's been sometime since I've done any posting but I can't resist this thread as this new crop of amps, IMHO, represent the future.
Sorry for the length of this posting but the ICEH20 amp is a significant product IMHO.
Being an Apogee owner (Mini Grands, Studio Grands and now Divas...still have them all) I'm always on the hunt for amps that can deliver current into their impedance from hell loads (actually they are not all THAT bad...except the Diva tweeter...9 ohms). I bi and tri amp my Apogees, driving the ribbons and bass panels directly, bypassing those lousy, stinking, awful, rotten, no good, power sucking, grainy, lower than a snakes belly...and bad passive x-overs. The ribbons are incredibly revealing of everything that goes on in front of them and, in particular, the mating amps. ANY grain or other active aberration and the amp is history. I can stand amps that hide detail, but amps that add stuff (and so far, tubes have been the biggest offenders)have a short residence in my system. I also use a Tact 2.2X (sometimes in conjunction with my DBX DriveRack PA) to set my target response curves and give the drivers the proper delays. This is also the future...big time!
The amps I've always come back to have been my Reference Line Silver Signatures with the high current outboard power supplies. I've tried for several years to dislodge them from my system (they do weigh in at over 140 pounds each)using other very fine amps but none have been as open or artifact free as these guys and they love diving the big Aps. Their only disadvantages are their size and heat/power draw (4-6 channels each drawing over 400 watts at idle and yes I've got 3-30 amp circuits for these pigs). Then I saw that Audio Advisor was selling their demo HCA-2s for a very attractive price. I took the plunge and bought a pair. Well right out of the box, stone cold they sounded great! Really turned my head. Very open and dynamic. They immediately got my right foot tapping to the music, even at low listening levels. I still preferred my RL amps as the HCA-2's came across a bit lean in the context of the Divas but were good matches for the Studio & Mini Grands. Then I spied a couple of Bel Canto EV0-4 gen II's for sale and grabbed them. Wow even better than the HCA-2. Still very open but fuller sounding, and a really neat package. Tonally and soundstage wise, they were sonic clones of the RL amps. Still not quite as open and just a tad laid back with a little less boogie.
Then Henry Ho let it drop on the Apogee site that he was starting to produce an amp based upon one of the ICE modules. Henry has been building amps for years and is a long time member of the Apogee Forum. His sonic priorities and taste in amps are in exact lock step with mine. Deep class a bias (I mean DEEP class A all the way to clipping into at least 4 ohms), at lot of attention to huge well-made power supplies and simple, well executed topologies. He's also familiar with the RL amps and quite complimentary of their sonics & design. So when he said the prototype amps turned his head away from his Class A amps and could easily drive his Scintillas, I paid attention. Based upon the encouragement of his friends and fellow forum members, he sent the prototype around the country for audition and said he would make "production quality" versions for forum members. Well, I took another plunge, send in a $2000 deposit on two stereo units. About 6 weeks later, they arrived, well packed on my door step. No owners manual or fancy literature yet, but hey it's a simple power amp and we've all been around the block.
Well again, and this is a common theme with these amps, stone cold, brand new, right out of the box they were stunning! The first thing I noticed right away was their incredible openness. Next thing that got my attention was the MUSIC. It took center stage as opposed to the sound. We've all heard pretty sounding amps but just could not get into the music. We have also heard amps that boogied but irritated at the same time. Well like the RL amps, the ICEH20 amps just get the hell out of the way..period. Making direct comparisons to the EVo-4 Gen II was telling. I thought the EVO's were essentially grain free. Well comparisons with the ICEH20's showed that not to be the case. A small but quite perceptible gauss came over the music when switching from the ICEH20's.
This is a great, artifact free amp. I've yet to make the comparison to the RL amps but I've a feeling I've found the right crowbar.
These are simple black boxes with a single blue LED on the front. Back panel is wide open with two sets of binding posts for each channel, balanced as well as single ended inputs and a central power cord receptacle. Simple and well executed. They weigh in at around 45 pounds each. Output impedance is under .1 ohms as far as I can tell. DC offset is low at under 10 MV. There are no turn on/off transients to slap my ribbons around and they will tolerate the small amount of DC that my DBX DriveRack sources (My RL amps on the other hand are TRUE DC coupled and amplify the shit out of it). They are extremely quite.
They are possibly the finest, most artifact free amp I've owned. They have even caught the attention, and ire, of Peter the Great (in his own mind anyway)of Acoustic Reality.
I'm awaiting shipment of my third stereo unit. The EV0's will be for sale as soon as it arrives (they are doing bass duties right now) |
The AResearch is based on the tripath chipset.
A couple dealers I spoke to seemed to be lukewarm (maybe even cool) about the Amp.
Comments were that it was on the cool/lean side of neutral and was even a bit bright out of the box.
Of course synergy is always key.
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Any toughts on the new Audio Research digital amp? |
I certainly wish I had the definitive answer to this question. Don't think there is one. It's all subjective. Unless of course, we all buy the same preamps, spekers, and sources.
If all the manufacturers or dealers were so confident as to having the "best", they should all put their money where their mouth is, in the product they want us to buy. Of course without the belief they can make the better "mousetrap", it would perbably be a rather bleak array of things to choose from. It ought to be a "Take it home - try it out - doesn't matdch well with your system?" "Bring it back and we'll try something else."
Even if you are fortunate enough to find a dealer that works with you, they lock up the money, and downgrading or reverting back a step is usually not acceptagle practice, only going up, seems to be. Don't get me wrong, I do understand business is business. I just believe if a product is truly well made and a great preformer, it ought to be that in your home, not just the showroom. Experimentation is the only answer I've yet to find worthwhile. Tough deal. Satisfy the customer, or sell the product? Satisfy the customer, they may tell a few of their friends, dis one and they tell people they don't even know! I'm on my third amp - or about to be, this time a Mcintosh. Sony didn't have the juice, Krell had the juice, but seemed a bit impersonal, the Mac sounds about right, and has more power, another 100 watts, to 350. I like what power does with speakers. Given the choice I'll go with less effecient speakers and power above 250 watts every time. There is no "magic bullet" in audioland. Just ears and dollars, and if you don't use the ears, you'll lose a lot of dollars. Valves, MOS-FETS,chips, micro processors, servos,Jesus! I threw the specs sheet away long ago. Certain designs indicate lonbgevity, some stability, others try to emmulate. The path I stumbled across recently was: "You know, speaker makers use amps to drive their speakers." Why not find out what THEY use. Seems practical, at least for a starting point, as well as providing insight to the developers train of thought. Past this point it all gets murky. Want to find the best solid state amp for you? Win the lottery, knock off your rich relative, and have at it! Or buy what you have confidence in and what your ears tell you they like. Sound is fascinating. good sound is expensive. great sound is complex, and expensive. No one has THE answer for what is best. Just THEIR answer. Being satisfied with waht I can afford, at least for me, is the secret. So I resist the urge to listen to things I can not afford. Simple. Simple is always best. Look at PUSH-PULL amps. Java man probalbly had one in his cave, and they are stil around. Mono blocks with outboard power supplies. right! I'll run down and grab six or seven tomorrow. the onlyu constant here is the constant onslaught of magazines whose sole direction is to sell the products they review. No products to review, no magazine to sell. Funny how that works. don't believe me, look at all the reviews that say the item just flat sucks. There aren't any. A precious few can buy the precious things. Good for them. I am fortunate enough to have enough respect for music that I have dedicated myself to buying in the realm just past that of "Mass media audio". Good for me. As fickle as that area is, changing twice a year or so, I've about given up on the "who's who" thing. Just a couple more pieces.... and I'm done, for good or ill. . . . well maybe. |
Onhy61, I meant my self designation to be taken tongue firmly in cheek. I have no status with the budding H2O company, none at all. I love this amp. I know Henry, and like Loudandclear says, he is a class act.
I have had in my possession a traveling H2O. In a couple days I will have monos I ordered. I will take pictures, and give my opinion. Nobody has to believe a word I say. There will be plenty others to follow. I am riding the crest of a wave.
H2O is a startup company. It isn't even in full production. Actually, Henry has asked me to cool the fireworks for the time being, until amp production gets up to full speed. |
Hello fellows!
I have to chime in here in support of Henry.
I have had several long conversations and have exchanged e-mails with Henry. He is a true class act and a very much stand up gentleman. He is an engineer at heart and adheres to very solid business ethics. Let's give him a chance to prove his skills. The first several of his amps are out their right now (mainly in the hands on Apogee owners) and getting huge accolades. Yes, one guy has replaced his Evo-4's and PSAudio HCA's he had in for comparison purposes.
Henry will have a another batch of ten amps or so out in several weeks. They are all spoken for. One has my name on it.
Muralman obviously has liked what he has heard. In a month or so, there should be a few others reporting back. Wait and see. |
Muralman, given that you are H2Os "chief cheer leader" and the designer's good friend, exactly what is the difference between you soon to come review of the amplifier and ad copy from H2O?
Also, you have repeatedly stated that owners of other digital amps are switching to H2O, please provide proof. You seem to indicate that as a lone entrepreneur Mr. Ho is having trouble getting his orders filled. Can you provide data as to how many of his amps have actually been sold? |
The creator of the H2O is Henry Ho. Henry is a good friend of mine, though we live a continent apart. I had his fine class A monoblocks for a time. Henry tutored me through several component changes. I could say, I am returning the favor as a good friend. It's easy though, and self serving. I have heard many amps, and I have yet to hear the equal of the H2O at any price. Henry's amp will be the least expensive of my recent amp purchases. That is my reward. That, and the satisfaction of seeing a friend do good.
Henry is a lone entrepreneur now. He is presently pulling a pool of experts around him, to facilitate a quick amp turn around. My job of chief cheer leader isn't done yet. I will be giving a proper review of my system here within a couple of weeks.
Over time, I have made a lot of noise over other components, and took some flack for that too. It bothers me none. I can see how someone might misconstrue my enthusiasm for salesmanship.
I encourage any amp challenge to the H2O. So far well reviewed digital amps such as the eAR, PS Audio, Rowland, and Evo Gen2, have been compared, not to mention a good number of conventional amps. Owners of these amps have been voting unanimously with their check books for the H2O. |
Muralman,
Looking at the apogee users site, it would be easy to conclude you have a financial intrest in the H2O amps. This may not be the case but I beleive it would behhove you to clarify your realationship with H2O |
Loudandclear- I've been to CP's home and heard his TacT gear. He stopped using the Zanden tube DAC months ago after some cable/power supply improvements.
He does use a Apogee Big Ben processor to reduce jitter from his transport.
Once you get noise under control, a TacT system doesn't need any tubes in the circuit path. If you have a moment,
take a look at my ST article on digital tweaking. ;-) |
Muralman1...Long ago Rolls Royce could truthfully say "The Best Car in the World". Although other vehicles made the Rolls obsolete, and quality went to pot, people who had invested their money and reputation in owning a Rolls refused to admit that it no longer lived up to its sales slogan, and they went right on buying them. No: I don't expect the exotic high end amp owners to run out and buy an $800 ProSound amp. But I do think it's a good thing that people who have less than a grand to spend on an amp can have close to SOTA performance. |
It is interesting to note that while the Tact did win a stereotimes award, the reviewer preferred the sound using the amp's ANALOG inputs drived by an external Zanden tube DAC!
This direct digital thing is not always a shoe-in for ultimate sound.
I'm sure many Tact users are very happy with the digital inputs. Just making an observation what one reviewer foun d after 3 months of use. |
Aloha Kana.... I told you Eldartford..... ;D |
Muralman1- You're corect about TacT users. They know that the MII and 2150s, unlike other so-called digital amplifiers, have no analog feedback or analog signal processing or amplification involved at any stage. The system is a high-power DAC device that translates digital information directly into sound.
The these units allow you to eliminate a preamp, DAC and
speaker crossovers with their programable digital crossover filters.
They recent won a StereoTimes.com award,and TacT just lowered their pricing.
"I have owned a number of great amps, and have heard far more. The H2O is unmistakingly the finest I have ever heard."
High praise, but I looked at your list of amps in the Personal amp evolution thread and dont see any of classic great ones(I posted my short list there also).
Good luck with your ICED H2O. Hope I get a chance to give it stir somtime. A hui hou. |
Eldarford, TacT owners will scold you for that summation. ;) Carver is a long time company with lots of employees. H2O is a start up company that is run solely, with the help of his friends, by the builder, Henry Ho. The H2O is for sale. What makes you think it isn't? Have you ever heard an ICE powered amp?
If amp quality is based on price per watt, then I've been barking up the wrong tree. Yes, I'd rather the H2O company had their site up, before selling amps. I have owned a number of great amps, and have heard far more. The H2O is unmistakingly the finest I have ever heard.
Stats are not very germain when comparing class D amps. The ICE module amps all have about a 117 s/n, 93% efficiency, 250 watts per channel, etc... What separates out the H2O is it's 150,000 micro farads of power capacitance, a 1 kw transformer, and a very strong analog power source. It's not all that that makes an amp wonderful, but how it is implemented. Hearing is the proof.
So far, owners of well reviewed eAR, Bel Canto, and PS Audio amps, to name a few of the "digital" amps, have bought H2O amps as replacements.
Do you know any owners of the above to switch their amps for a Carver? |
Muralman1...I think that we call an amplifier "digital" if its output stage is pulse-width-modulated (high speed switching transistors ON or OFF) rather than a proportional conduction device (transistor or tube). The control module, ICE, Tripath, or whatever, is a (perhaps important) detail.
What makes the H20 amp good? Raves don't carry much weight without some backup facts. The $2000 price (but it isn't really for sale yet) is no great deal. My three (3) CarverPro amps cost me $2517. That's $0.69 per watt!
CarverPro not only has a web site with specs on their product, but also offers the schematic diagram for techies like me. When will H20 lay their cards on the table? |
The H2O site isn't up yet. The site builder is waiting for pictures. The amp builder, Henry Ho, has been too busy with getting amps out to take pictures. As of now, there is only his temporary email address, which you will need to email me for.
Henry lives in Virginia.
I have pictures of the prototype amp Henry sent me four months ago. Soon I will have the monos and I will post pictures of them in a review.
Hope this helps,
Vince |
Muralman1, can you provide a link to information about the h2o amps? |
The fellow who started the thread, a long time ago, used the term, "digital," loosely. Generally, the discussion has been about class D amps. The ICE based amps are actually analogue, due to their method of signal modulation. |
Digital Amp ?? Maybe i'm missing something here, but how does an amp, amplify a digital amp. Is it just an amp with a dac built in or what ?? Sorry about my ignorance on this subject, but i've just never heard of anything referred to as a digital amp. |
Boy, have you dredged up an old thread, Zapper. Times have marched on. IMO the greatest digital wreath now goes to the start up company, H2O.
The stereo H20 sells for 2k, a reasonable price, considering it's competition.
Buyers are jettisoning their Bel Canto Evos, eAR amps, PS Audios, and scores of others, to make way for their new ICE powered H2O amps.... Including me, of course. |
I recently bought a Carver 1600 and sold my Classe 400 after hearing more bass, dynamics, volume, and details out of my Mirage m3 (86db) which were always hard to drive. In fact, I am buying another 1600 as I got more than enough from the Classe to run the 1600s in mono. Can't wait to hear the M3s finally sing. |
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After watching the posts for several weeks I decided to take the plunge and purchase the eAR mono bloc amps directly from Acoustic Reality.
In the last few years I've on owned amplifiers from Conrad Johnson, Mark Levinson (331 and 333) Rowland (Model 5), Krell (KSA 250 and FPB 600) VAC (90), VTL (225), and several others. The eAR amplifiers are by far the best I've ever had in my system. These amplifiers have phenomenal bass extension, speed, and a liquid mid-range. I am not saying that these are the best amplifiers in existence however they are the best that I have ever had in my system. These amplifiers make others sound muddy and congested, in addition they are dynamic and image like the best tube amps.
No, I'm not a distributor, dealer, or interested in becoming one. I don't know anyone at Acoustic Reality or have any stock in the company. I never post on these types of websites because listening is such a subjective and personal experience that the only way to judge a product is to listen in your own system. I am posting only because I have discovered a product that is significantly better than anything I have previously experienced. Anyone in the market for a high end amplifier needs to know that there is a product that may be an order of magnitude better than anything currently on the market.
My system consists of a Mark Levinson 37 transport, ML 38S preamp, ML 360S DAC and Piega C-10 Limited speakers. I use Chang and PS Audio conditioners and Straight Wire Crescendo cable. |
Fiddler, I think you will find out even sooner. There will be an avalanche of digital module chip bearing amps out in the near future. Someone you know will have one. |
Solar Hi-Fi is building their digital Fusion amps using the LC Audio chipset. Check them out at Audiocircle. |
Anyone try to build one of these LC Audio ZAPpulse Digital amps yet? The cost really looks enticing!
ZAPpulse is a series of PWM Amplifiers, with output power of 200 Watts in 8 Ohms. These modules can also be bridged for powers up to 800 Watts in 8 Ohms. The sound is remarkably soft and easyflowing, with a tight bass control, the resolution of micro details is almost on level with a Class A amplifier. The cost per Watt is very low, especially when you consider that these amplifiers are so energy efficient (better than 95%) that no heat sinks are required, even for the highest output power. The sound quality is comparable to what You would expect from an industry power amplifier in the price range of 2.000 - 3.000 $ or Euro. This new technology is very environment friendly, as it requires less materials to build and amplifier, than usual, and also has very low power consumption.
http://www.lcaudio.dk/com/forst.htm |
I was stunned by the length of the post!LOL
Actually I stand by what I have posted at other BB's and that is that there shall be some truely great deals in audio now because of the material cost of these new digital amps. While prices will increase with the quality of parts used I would bet that we will see price to perfoemance ratio's to be better in the past for those searching for near sota products for affordable prices.
The Panasonic XR25\45 and Carver ZR1000 unit's have already been stated to be great for under 1 clam. We will be seeing more of this from here on out. LC Audio is another manf. that I am heraring about.
I am fooling around with a Panny XR45 at present. |
I just saw this mod for PS Audio Amps.
www.asi-audio.com
Audiophile Sound innovations has just introduced a reference style Modification package for the PS Audio HCA-2 Digital amplifier.
This a great sounding amplifier stock, it is a STEREOPHILE CLASS A rated amp, and has alot of hidden potential. We take it to a much further level than one would expect. So much more realism, wider soundstages, blacker backgrounds, emotion, resolution, refined bass, attack, etc etc etc... You'll enjoy the natural presentation.
Why upgrade to a better amp when we can to your HCA-2 to a whole different level?
The mod package-
-Jensen 4-pole Electrolytic Capacitors-
We replace the main power supply caps with the Jensen 4-pole versions. Talk about fast and natural and neutral sounding as well as bass refinements and dynamics to die for. What else can we say, these caps rock! Major improvement in total tonal character and resolution.
-Blackgate capacitors-
We replace specific critical rail voltage and critical signal path capacitors with Top of the Line BlackGate N & FK series caps!! Major improvement! The background becomes blacker, and instruments emerge like they are so real. A definite change in total sonic tonality and character over the stock caps!
-Audio Consulting 99.99% silver wire & Natural Unbleached Cotton Tubing-
We use various lengths of Audio Consulting Silver Wire and Natural Cotton Tubing to act as damping. This is used to connect the Jensen Capacitors together or to the PCB. This wire is the best we have heard to use in circuits. No Teflon or Plastic is found on this wire but rather than a Polymenstride enamel coating so it will not muffle the sound.
-ASi Custom made Exotic Diode Bridge-
We handmake custom diode bridges from exotic diodes to further better the sound and even further reduce any glare, grain or such in the stock design. These test out to sound better than the Harris/Fred types. These take approx. 20-30 minutes to handmake.
-Our Quick Review-
The amplifer sounds really good stock. We definitely admit it! Kudos to Paul McGowan!! After this modification, this amplifier sounded so much more neutral and natural and filled with emotion, much more bass refinement and attack, resolution galore and authority and control of speakers in a different league. We did some comparisons against some other amps on hand costing in the $3-4K+ region and we were surprised the difference the modified HCA-2 made against these amps! The best part about it is that is doesnt get warm and it sounds as good as many much higher costing amps on the market. Best of all, electricity bills will be great since this unit pulls nill a from the wall!!! Get one, mod it and be surpised in the emotion department!
-Costs and Options-
Complete package is available for $600 (return shipping is included)
(Labor & Fed-ex ground return shipping (Lower 48 US states) is included)
Return Fedex Ground Shipping is included for the lower 48 states only. The client is responsible for packaging and initial shipping charges to us. We supply fed-ex tracking numbers upon return. We can have the amplifier back to the client in about 1-2 weeks upon full initial payment.
Please email us if you want faster shipping back and we'll adjust the price.
We take certified cashiers checks/money order/Paypal (add 3%) and take the payment upfront in whole in order to purchase the parts from our suppliers. By the time your amplifier arrives here, we already have the parts and are ready to go!
-Options for Even Better Sound!!-
LeClanche Paper-In-Oil Capacitor-
We add a LeClanche Paper-in-Oil Capacitor to the main power supply to further reduce the unnecessary distortion and harmonics in the AC Signal. Talk about major! Brings more emotion and "liveliness" to the music since it takes out the impurities that cause the masking of the emotion and resolution in your valuable music.
Add $60 (installed) to the order
-Rewire Internal Speaker Output Wiring with Audio Consulting 99.99% silver wire & Natural Unbleached Cotton Tubing-
We Rewire the output speaker cabling with Audio Consulting Silver Wire. Talk about improvement and additonal sound and resolution!!!!!! The stock crappy wiring needs to go (Monster Cable, yuk!) as well as the screws and ring terminals that get oxidized very easily and degrade the sound and provide the worst signal transfer characteristics. We solder using WBT silver solders and we solder this silver wiring directly to the PCB, elmininating alot of the imperfections of the original design! This makes a great improvement and it requires over 17 feet of wire and cotton. This takes some time to do but the results are fabulous!
Add $160 (installed) to the order
Please check out our website and View our Philips DVD-963SA Mod Package. The Philips 963SA/PS Audio HCA-2 is a Super HOT Combo!!!! We were STUNNED with the two modded components.
www.asi-audio.com |
Check out this Yamaha digital amp. It looks impressive.
I hope its at the Stereophile show in 2004. I'll be there.
http://www.shows.soundstagelive.com/shows/ces2003/dly_jan10b.shtml |
Oxia, you and I are in complete agreement. I have purchased most of my gear factory-direct online for two reasons. The first being that I agree with your assessment that factory-direct companies are better bang-for-the-buck.
Secondly, I live on Maui and there are zero brick & mortar audio shops here. But even if there were, I would still probably prefer factory direct.
I have not heard the Acoustic Reality amps, but I am sure they are very good. I believe digital is certainly the wave of the future. I said that the minute I listened to the HCA-2 stock.
I also believe digital is in it's infancy, including the Acoustic Reality products. I suspect in a few years we may possibly hear things from digital products we didn't think possible. But having said that, I anticipate in early '05 I will be auditioning equipment to overhaul my entire system. At that time I plan on auditioning Tenors, Berning, Goldmund, etc., so I haven't completely written off tubes as evidenced by the Tenors and Berning.
As good as Spectron & Acoustic Reality may be (and I would love to compare both to my modded HCA-2), I suspect that the likes of the amps that I mentioned above are still in a different league. Five years from now, as digital really begins to mature, it may be a different story. But currently I still believe (admittedly, without hearing them) that digital amps may still be bettered with high-end conventional designs. I will find out in a year or so. |
Fiddler,
I see your point, but I think you've missed mine. I don't doubt that there will be design improvements in the future for even the most accomplished of components. After all, the "best" never sit on their laurels. And I'm also aware of the eAR upgrade too. What I was trying to say in my earlier post is:
1. For a given price point, factory-direct offerings tend to have higher value for the dollar, because money that's saved by avoiding dealer markups can be put into higher quality parts.
2. Straight-forward parts swapping may yield benefits when the quality of the parts were compromised in order to meet a price point. However, this wouldn't be necessary (and may even have negative results) if the parts quality wasn't compromised to begin with.
As a consequence of these two beliefs, I've tended to seek out factory-direct alternatives to the usual gear found in brick-and-mortar shops. I'm not advocating it for everyone. It's certainly safer to take the road that's more travelled, but it's my choice and it has served me well.
PS: My service experience with Acoustic Reality so far has been exemplary. I had my eAR upgraded from MKI to MKII specs last year (the change allowed me to use conventionally terminated speaker cables rather than SPEAKON plugs), and the amp was turned around without a hitch. |
Oxia, I think you are missing the point. Virtually every product can be improved. Case in point; your eAr amp. Acoustic Reality has improved their circuit or so they say.
I guess Peter has been fiddling around with his own design and improved it.
If you check the Acoustic Reality website you can see if you have the latest upgrade. If you don't, you can send it back for the "modded" circuit upgrade.
Although from the customer sevice nightmares many have experienced from Peter and Acoustic Reality you might be better off keeping the lesser eAR version.
And give it time, modders somewhere will probably find a way to even improve the eAR. Progress and perfomance never stand still. |
Oxia is right. Mods can help a lot of components, and not others. To Oxia's list I would add Pass Labs, a whole seller. Through building a great reputation, they have been able to enjoy steady sales that support a lot of research and development. Changing a single item in their X amps would spell disaster for their clean solid state sound. |
Re. Modifying amps.
Given the talk about making modifications to existing amplifiers, this brings up an important point. Its not intended as a knock against the HCA-2 specifically, but its just a fact about the difference between traditional manufacturers versus manufacturers that sell factory-direct. For any given price point, the bill of materials or parts cost will almost certainly be greater for a factory-direct component because, unlike the traditional manufacturer, they dont need to worry about dealer markups. The dealer markup is significant, and can easily double the cost of a component, if not more. Consequently, the factory-direct manufacturer can either charge less or re-invest the savings into design improvements, including (but not limited to) better parts. Thats why manufacturers like Acoustic Reality (and others like VMPS, BPT, Bent Audio, Don Morrison Audio, etc.) have an advantage -- their cost structure allows them to compromise less on basic things like component quality so consequently they can get away with using superior parts while keeping prices reasonable. Finally, since they dont scrimp on parts quality, you wont see aftermarket modders fiddling with their innards. |
For what it's worth, I love my Acoustic Reality eAR Two. I dont claim that its the absolute best because thats an impossible claim. I dont pretend to have heard every digital amp on the planet, although I did hear the EVO 200.2 and liked it, though not enough to put my money on it. However, the eAR is IMO a truly outstanding amp. Having said that, I had a very long correspondence about a year ago with an owner of an Odyssey Stratos dual-mono who was doing an in-home audition of the eAR Two. He and I swapped much information about our impressions of the amp, but in the end he decided to keep his Stratos because although he thought the eAR was better in some ways, in his mind the improvement wasnt enough to justify giving up the Stratos. I was happy for the guy that he made the best choice *for himself*. I didnt froth at the mouth and insist that he was crazy for dissing my amp of choice. In the end, were just voicing our own opinions on these forums, nothing more. Theres no need to get defensive just because someone doesnt share your opinion. |
These new Cl.D amps are going to give all those that are looking for quality a taste of hiend for under $1K I think.
The best will cost due to parts used,but you will get quality sound for under $1K. I just bought the Panasonic SA-XR45 and cannot beleive the sound I am getting from the unit. Most of the reviewers are not changing out the PC which is a big mistake. Only after that does it sound like a good product rather than a mid-fi piece of junk.
Another drawback is the Binding post and the analog section,but the digital is better than anything I have had in my system for only $300.
Good luck! |
Well, we all need to take anything we say with a grain of salt. We can only comment on what we have personally witnessed. I'm always willing to admit I am wrong.
Said that, I still believe the X600 is the best solid state amp on this planet. I never believed it would trump the best tubed amps. They just weren't suitable for my speaker's needs.
As for class D amps, they are new to the field. The first digital amps, early EVOs and TacTs, did nothing to move me away from tubes and solid state.
The HCA2 is a marvelous amp. It has been tested by several members in our Apogee group. Certainly it has opened their eyes to the digital revolution.
Now we are talking about degrees of digital advancement. In my experience, the eAR surpasses all competition in construction, parts, and, to these ears, sound.
Oh yes, the Apogee... yes, the best ;) |
WELL SAID FIDDLER! In this world we all have biases and preferences and are free to make recommendations but when we start using "BEST" then there is always some second guessing going on. I have had my HCA-2 for a while now (always tired of people ripping this amp off) and find that for the money (even without the mods) is extremely musical and powerful (driving a pair of power hungry Martin Logans). All I can say is that as HCA-2 owners, we are very blessed and it is nice to be able to see that digital amps are carving a nice niche in the high end industry today.
Zen (Jason)
President
Martin Logan Club
http://www.martinloganowners.com |
Kana, you have to take Muralman with a grain of salt. Not 6 or 7 months ago the Pass X600 was the best amp on the planet, just like the Scintillas he owns are the best speakers in the world (by his own words). It seems whatever equipment he owns at the moment is the BEST ever made! Maybe he can sub for Sam Tellig or H.P. if they get sick. It will be fun to see what next month's flavor is. |
You know the TacT is a system, pre and amp. Knowing the speakers the TacT was playing on intimately, gives me a good clue what they are doing to the overall sound. Several of us heard the Llano 300 and the TacT on the same system. It was a toss up, according to likes and dislikes which one was like better. In the case of the eAR, there is no doubt about it's supremacy over those two amps.
Enjoy the review. |
Muralman1- "I use my hearing to compare the two."
You must have remarkable hearing to filter out/factor in the combined effect of a diferent preamp,dac,and different sytems(no dealer I'm aware handles the all these digital amps and eAR has no dealers), but hey, to each his own.
For a grand, maybe I'll pick on up as a back-up amp.
I look forward to reading the rave review on StereoTimes. |
Kana, I use my hearing to compare the two. There is no contest, the eAR is decidedly better. In fact, I can think of a lot of tube and solid state amps I would choose over the TacT. Same goes for the EVO.
Fiddler, all mediocre equipment needs is some fiddling, and they turn to gold, right?
The PSA is a cheapo eye opener, showing just what can be done on the cheap with these class D modules. The eAR Enigma sells for a little more than a thousand dollars, and it is a class act, in need of no fiddling. |
Muralman1 -"The ICE module has greater potential than the TacT and TRI Path modules" What potential?
And how do you compare the Tact which needs no premap or
dac to the eAR which needs both? |
