BEST HARMLESS/SIGNATURELESS SPEAKERS CAPACITORS.
Dear @geoffkait : Unfortunatelly that snake oil is a " dream/food " for us " hungry/starving " high end audiophiles that I don’t know for sure any more what really means that: high end audiophiles because what it happens with boutique fuses is nothing diferent of what is happening with boutique capacitors and many other audio items. Btw, what do you think about? R. |
I wish I did not, but I do hear a difference between different fuses. That said, I find the differences between capacitors a much larger effect. My preamp has two outputs that are identical besides the output capacitor and I'd be shocked if anyone on this site didn't hear the differences when switching between the two. Super easy to do blind a-b-a testing on something like that too. Similarly easy to unscrew my tweeter cap and test out those differences with an external crossover. |
Dear friends: Other than my first hand experiences with diferent caps for speaker crossover I was reading a lot of information about that includes diferent whole tests and capacitors evaluations. The common way to write of the evaluations gentlemans is almost the same for all the boutique and top rated capacitors where the adjectives used tells us many glorious characteristics but in no one say the response is flat everything for them in this capacitors top range talks about colorations more than accuracy or flat response. In the other side and at the other extreme when talk of the " poor " capacitors as Wima, Vishay, Clarity, Audience,Jantzen and the like they say: " overall presentation is a bit flat.. """, "" you get a neutral, smooth and well balanced capacitor... """, """ Well balanced, overall coherent sounding capacitor... """ , "" Overall performance is very satisfactory and has something correct / complete about it.."", "" has high resolution in a natural way, it is without glare that you usually get with some of those "high-end" capacitors. """ And I ask my self: is it not that way as be or should be what we have to expect for any well designed capacitor?. No one of those sentences came from " complex " design capacitors ( paper, oil beewax and the like. ) that for me alter the audio signal that pass through in a higher way against the straigth " poor " capacitors designs. Where that " alter " means fully colorations that the " poor " ones just do not have because it’s not part of the capacitor job. Capacitor design/build is not a rocket science and as we already read it in the links I posted its job and contruction must be: straigth, the audio signal is not looking for the beewax or oil and the like. As in one those links please think a little about: why those boutique caps that many of you " die for " are not used in medical tools/instruments or in the aircraft or military industry or in many other industry applications where what you need is : accuracy, precision, bullet proof, longevity and many other characteristics. Or you think that to handle in the " rigth " way an audio signal we need those kind of boutique capacitors due to the audio signal " complexity "? make sense to you? Yes, I know what you hear/listened and likes because I had experiences about and listen it all those nice colorations but what I did not listened was the MUSIC rigthness. As I said before I own a lot of wima caps and after solve the speaker woofer crossover I will listen to wima, vishay and other " poor " caps in the tweeters and we will see then what happens down there. For me the boutique caps are not for reproduce today MUSIC. Something similar as tube technology, both items can't really honor MUSIC today ( maybe in the past but not today where exist a lot better alternatives. ). Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
Dear @cal3713 : ""
It's a shame your cap values are so large that you can't just buy everything and try them all..."" Yes, it's a problem and that's why I have to really take care about trying to learn as much as I can from every where. Btw, I remember the heavy touted Black Gate electrolytic caps and I'm wonder if that was only a time " fashion " and nothing else at all and after read so many information in the net I changed my mind and I will stay away from the BG or any electrolytic caps even the battery biased configuration type. Active crossover is not for me the best solution ( even that could be the one. ) due that I have not all the driver speaker needs and prefer to stay in the passive know scenario. R. |
Dear @cal3713 : """
but I do hear a difference between different fuse...""" of course you herad it, almost any one can listen the differences between fuses but that's not the main subject but if those fuse changes really helps for the MUSIC rigthness not only gives " colorations ". Same for the boutique capacitors that any one can listen its diferences in between and again that's not the main subject. I know almost for sure that those added boutique caps colorations are only that colorations/distortions that does not exist in the recording but we like it and for me those " nice colorations " are not part ofthe real MUSIC. Tidal 200K speaker is a good example on how a speaker manufacturer use those caps as a " tone " devices " as a " tone control " when the main target in a speaker crossover capacitor certainly is not to be used as a tone devices. Tidal use 5 diferent caps to make exactly that and at least for me or tghose accuton drivers are really bad or the overall design of the speakers is not good enough. Of course I can be wrong but I can't find out rational explanations for those " design and driver behaviors " . I think that those boutique caps and fuses are used only in audio and in specific in the " high-end " market niche. Said I " high-end "? becaUSE RIGTH NOW COULD BE ANYTHING BUT TRUE HIGH-END. It's full of snake oil devices that we all love it but sooner or latter we can learn about if we are willing to learn, we need the rigth attitude for learn something where we thing we already learned when it's not that way as we like to think. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
Dear @paulcreed @cal3713 and friends: Temptation was to much and before I changed the woofer crossover caps I made a " little " change in my speaker tweeters and put my hands to work where my mouth/talk is and due that I have several Wima caps these are the ones I changed instead the Alumen Z that were the ones connected down there. I'm listening and making my self test whole evaluation process and before I post the results I would like that if you can do it, due that Wima caps are totally inexpensive , then do it with your speaker tweeters only with out other blending caps for that crossover filter. IMHO and even that your tweeters are diferent from mines is a must for any one to make this simple test speaker evaluation devices. Then you can come here to share your first hand experiences about. Believe me, it's worth to do it and don't be worried because the wima very low price range, an entry cap condition. At the end could be a learning lesson or a confirmation of something that we think we know. Who knows? The ones I'm using are the MKP 10 160v and 5% tolerance. Thank's in advanceand best wishes for that kind of change. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
These are some wima source sale: http://www.ibselectronics.com/passive/wima/ http://www.banzaimusic.com/WIMA/?gclid=Cj0KCQiA0NfvBRCVARIsAO4930mfY3MkIl0N20L23xCDGyGIDbxq1qUG5Mwct9tsQyvHp1Vkoj6v_WAaAk8GEALw_wcB https://www.distrelec.de/search?q=%22Wima%22&filter_categoryCodePathROOT%2Fcat-L2D_379525%2Fcat-L2-3D_528720=cat-L3D_525332&filter_Buyable=1&filter_categoryCodePathROOT/cat-L2D_379525=cat-L2-3D_528720&filter_categoryCodePathROOT=cat-L2D_379525&filter_categoryCodePathROOT/cat-L2D_379525/cat-L2-3D_528720=cat-L3D_525332 https://www.mouser.com/ https://www.digikey.com/ and remember that for the price of one " high end " capacitor you can buy all the WIMA capacitors you need for your two speakers whole crossovers ! ! ! I already bought the ones for my woofers and midranges. Rigth now I'm using Wima in the tweeters crossover and band-pass ones with out buy nothing because I had those values. Again, not only both of you but any one must try the Wima ( filter by filter. ) in your speakers. At the end the only thing you can lost is the time to make the unsolder/solder caps in the crossovers and the " excercise could be interesting to do it. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
Dear @imhififan : My speakers are heavely up-graded but are old ones by ADS and the original caps, resistors and inductors if I remember has no " name " builder or maybe yes but I can't remember for sure. I have first hand experiences with Duelund, Mundorf, Sonicaps, V-caps, Mit, Jantzen and other caps. All of them with really high prices per piece. Wima is the standard not only in the audio industry but in almost any industry market segment. Open any amplifier or preamp and you will see full of Wima caps down there. Should be because exist proved reasons to use those Wima caps. Last week I decided to test Wima though my tweeters due that I have many wima caps that I changed in the past in system electronics, not the ones I own today. I changed in the tweeter crossovers instead the Jantzen Alumen Z and even that I'm still making the evaluation I can attest in the tested time that I'm totally surprised with the MKP 10. Where the Alumen Z are " neutral " the MKP 10 are true neutral and colorless/signatureless other than the MUSIC intrinsec color and yesd I heard and I'm hearing differences: important ones. I was not prepared for what I'm listening rigth now because you pay " penauts " for a Wima caps against big dollars for the boutique caps that can't honor that colorless because all those heavy priced caps unfortunatelly adds " colorations/distortions ". Till now the Wima in my system and through the tweeter and band-pass ( midrange.tweeter. ) crossover filters works great and at higher quality levels that the " other " caps or any thing I listened before in my system and in other systems. Examples: around the middle of number two track in the original soundtrack of Gladiator you can listen the sound between swords when one hit the other. Well in the Jantzen sounds really good but through the Wima you stay with out words to explain it: just outstanding if you consider that the Alumen Z are really good quality performers. Outstanding because the sound is not only precise but truer sound with a rigthness dificult to explain it and dificult to beats it. In the Lyn Stanley Potions recording and in the very first track in the first minute ( at the end of that first minute. ) that started the track we can listen a very delicated high frequency strokes in a triangle, very delicated and with the Wima exist a very high definition with a precense so vivid ( not organic. ) that you can't be in other way but impressed for it. Other " moments " are in the Telarc 1812 Overture where around 30 seconds before the first 5 cannon shots you can listen in the " long distance " the sound of a tambourine with perfect purity and after those shots comes the carillon sound that any one of you will die for till you listen to with Wima caps. That's why I decided to bought the caps for my woofers and midranges. I will go " slowly " step by step to can be totally sure on the whole wima caps subject. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
Dear @imhififan : My take rigth now and with out tested in the midrange/woofer filters is that seems to me could exist no reasons to use Wima in any tweeters speakers. As I said and every one knows for many years Wima is a true standard in the whole industry regarding use of capacitors. The examples I posted at least two of them are way demanding for any room/system ( Gladiator/1812 ) is a really true test overall at all the frequency range and especially at the SPL I listened those two recordings: 95db-97db at seat position with peaks around 105db-107db. Yesyerday I Listened at the same SPLs these recordings: Dire Straits Love over Gold and I never heard in any system Mark Knopfler guitar so " rigth " with not strident ( for that SPL. ) but with the normal agresiveness live MUSIC sound has. Botn " parts " in the Telegraph Road track where outstanding as was too both " parts " on Private Investigations. We have to remember that even that the Wima are only in the tweeters midrange harmonics are reproduced down there. I listend too: Self Control by Laura Branigan and I was really surprised by the rythm that today has my room/system. Same happened with the original ( long version. ) soundtrack of Cat People where in the track Putting out Fire Bowie really shines but the rythm is just impressive. Music on this recording came from G.Moroder. Finally: Fun Fun ( two girls voices. ) Color my love with same results. These 3 last recordings are way demanding for any system room. What I listened never losted " figure " everything rigth on " place " with very good instrument separation and at the same time fully integrated in between. The girls chorus in the Bowie recording track now has definiton and are vivid as never before where I was listened but " nothing more ". Something that I took in count during all my tests evaluations ( I’m still testing it. ) is that voices sibilant almost disappears in all recordings with female and male voices. Yes, it’s a huge discovery for me. Testing doing things and thinking out of the box is from where I learned. I never say NO, I try and if I don’t like it the change I did it the return to its before status. I forgot, in the past when testing at that SPLs always left a ears sensations thattook several minutes to disappears and this time that almost not happens. Rigth now my " hat off " for Wima. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
Dear @paulcreed : ""
you prefer the cheap Wilma? """ Certainly yes and as I said please don't " worry " about its extremely low price. My samples were used devices and I dont know Wima time to settle down. You stated that that time is not in your " fun " list " but caps normally needs some hours. Obviously not weeks or months like some other caps. My take is that you must try it. R. |
Dear @cal3713 : I tested the Wima in parallel and series way ( due that I have not the values for a single cap that I will order. ). For reasons I have not explanations in the ban-pass filter works better in parallel and in the tweeter in series. Both cases/ways with two caps on each fashion. and that's what I'm listen. Now are so cheap that we can try all configuration ways for evaluations. R. |
I may try. You sparked my interest, I found a supplier, he's emailing me availability on mkp 10, there hard to find in USA. Only from what I googled wima may be tipped up/ cleaner from Alumen z. I find the z more on the warm side of the CRM. This may be why you like the wima. The CRM is more neutral than Z for me, I find CMR/Z combine well together. Funny you mentioned tambourines the CMR reproduces that cheap tin metal sound very well and sometimes I use tambourines to judge a cap, tambourine is hard to do correct. Playing drums since a little kid I have problem buying hand hammered Turkish ride cymbals and metal snare drums and also use that to judge caps. Metal snares aren't muddy like a wooden snare. The CMR is good at that but it's not perfect but I find it neutral and fairly true to live music. The Duelund silver bypass goes well with it. One of the best things I found to reproduce that metal crunch sound is a DIY 6 gauge solid core silver wire with neodymium magnets with the RCA center pin punched out and silver wire is connected directly from amp to Preamp with no interference, copper or aluminum braid is return. It does slightly roll of highs but I fix that with a acoustic zen ref 2. |
Dear @paulcreed : """
I find the z more on the warm side of the CRM. This may be why you like the wima. ... """ sorry but that " warm " makes no " click " for me at this moment because if the Z was on the warm side of the Wima then why more ears " fatigue " at high SPL with the Z than with the Wima and why the sibilants disappears with the Wima if like you say is tipped up? Cleaner yes but not exactly tipped up. I think that next week I will receive what I need for the midrange drivers and we will see what happens. R. |
Main speakers are older Joseph audio perspective not current perspective 2. I have not altered those yet and don't know if I ever will. The speakers I have been playing with caps are LSA Statements floorstanders. LSA had 3 versions standard, signature and statement, the statement has ribbon tweeters. I've owned these LSA's for 15 or more years and always enjoyed them. After adding new caps they are now much better speakers. I also have some Usher tiny dancer and some GR Research hot rodded monitors which are the speakers that got me interested in changing caps. I've not had any fatiguing issues with Z's even with ribbon tweeter. |
Dear @paulcreed : You said that are waiting a wima caps quote for your needs. I don't know which values you need but Mouser has the MKP 10 in 10uf, 6.8uf, 4.7uf and many standard values and you have not to wait for a quote because you buy on line through its site. Did you look your needs at Mouser? R. |
Talked to mouser few days ago only cap they have 6.8 which is for bass driver and mid driver in 2.5 crossover. Tweeter caps for me are 8.2 and 4.7 and 1.5 for rear firing tweeter. Maybe I'll replace 6.8 for the hell of it just to see only cost a few bucks, honestly would be surprised if it sounded better than Clarity cap. |
Dear @paulcreed : Here what you can buy at Mouser: https://www.mouser.com/WIMA/Passive-Components/Capacitors/Film-Capacitors/MKP-10-Series/_/N-9x371?P=1z0zldhZ1yofbfeZ1z0wqtr that are 1.5uf 1000vdc (600vac. ) 10% tolerance ( does it not matters for a test. ) https://www.mouser.com/WIMA/Passive-Components/Capacitors/Film-Capacitors/MKP-10-Series/_/N-9x371?P=1yofbfeZ1z0zldhZ1z0wrjc that are the 4.7uf in stock, no problem. and the 8.2uf you can have it with a 4.7uf plus a 3.3uf in parallel, solved: https://www.mouser.com/WIMA/Passive-Components/Capacitors/Film-Capacitors/MKP-10-Series/_/N-9x371?P=1yofbfeZ1z0zldhZ1z0wquy R. |
Dear friends: I finish my tests evaluations with the Wima caps in my tweeters and band-pass speakers crossovers. I said finish because I received from Mouser the precise wima caps values I need for, so I’m not listen any more to parallel/series caps but single cap on each position. I have to say that today Wima is the best harmless and signatureless cap I experienced first hand in my system These Wima caps are dead neutral/colorless and does not adds any " artefacts " I can be aware off and does not needs weeks or months to settle down only a few hours from new. Between today and tomorrow I will try to change the the caps in the mid range crossovers: 16.8uf and will see what happens down there. Btw, with the tweeters Wima caps happened something that in the past happened too when I added the super-tweeters in my system : the most notorious listened improvement with the ST was a better bass range and soundstage definition. R. |
Der @cal3713 @paulcreed and friends: """ is that voices sibilant almost disappears in all recordings with female and male voices. """ that sentence I posted is not exactly ture. Sibilants are still there and what it’s not there are the added noise/glare/distortions. I already put the Wima caps in the mid range crossover too and with a complete astonished success. In the past when I changed/up-graded for example: cables, resistors, attenuators/volume pots, tonearm wires and the like after did it the change and lñistened I was " worried " because I " feeled " that the system quaklity performance losted precense, air, shines, etc, etc. and SPLs with the same attenuator pot position. In all cases thinks were ( when I took in count. ) that what really losted in almost all those changes was: added colorations, distortions, noises, resonances ( name it as you want it. ) and the SPLs measured does not been altered. System noise floor goes way down ! ! . The " sensation " of lower SPL came/comes from way lower distortions and to feel more or less the " same " SPL " sensation " I have to go-up around 2db on SPL. So the Wima caps in my speakers permit that I can listen it at higher SPLs. Those kind of experiences and now with the Wima caps confirm that the humble Wima caps handled the signal in better way than the boutique caps. The Wima don'y " impedes " in almost every way the signal pass-through like the boutique caps. Now, with Wima in the tweeters/mid-ranges the overall room/system quality performance is overwhelming and I mean it. If you take a piano recording each note/harmonics are a " fulminant " precise sound just as you can listen only in a live near field event. This characteristic is the very first time I heard in any system through my audio life. I'm rigth " there " and can hear the immedacy fast transient as never before. After those experiences I can’t just go back ever and my speakers woofer crossover caps will be by Wima too. I’m just waiting tha Wima como back from holidays to buy it. Wax, paper, oil and snake poison are only caps full of colorations. Think about: it can’t be in other way. So we pay for what we get and we really get a " poor " quality level through the boutique caps against the " fabolous " Wima. Every day from the Wima changes I took daily 23 hours additional to what I lisneded in the past before caps change. Rigth now the " low-reas " CD performs as that old statement: " best sound for ever ", really is the way it sounds. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
Dear friends: There are many things that the Wima does in the rigth way, some I already posted but two of the Wima characteristics in the speaker crossover are sometyhing that we can hear only through near field listen live MUSIC. one is POWER where each instrument shows you its power degree and overall what we can listen is that real MUSIC power that it's as in live event ( I'm not talking of high or low SPLs. No. ) the power that only have the live MUSIC the other astonishing/outstanding characteristic is CLEARLY that permit to listen more MUSIC that comes in the recording and that before Wima you just can't have no matter what and I say no matters what because my experiences with Duelund, Mundorf, V-cap´s, Jantzen and the like just can't do it due to its heavy colorations that impedes that CLEARLY that belongs to Wima caps. Yes I'm exited because for me after more than 40+ years in audio never had first hand experiences like this one today and I listened room/system from 10K to over 300K. Why that POWER and CLEARLY characteristics, easy: way lower colorations/distortions. Wima are way accurate devices not analytical but accurated something that unfortunatelly all caps I tested/used over years just has not. I listen ( between many other recordings. ) last nigth to an old CD that is the original soundtrack Flashdance and that has good MUSIC but not very good recording and rigth now is just impressive in any of its tracks but the first one " What a feeling " with Irene Cara is gorgeus and something to hear/listen. What changed a not very good recording in a good recording: a lot lower distortions and this is Wima puts your nearer to the recording and nearer to the live MUSIC. R. |
adding " niothing " to the audio signal other that makes its job, this is the big difference and that's what means accurate in this regards application. I don't use adjectives as smooth, warm, organic and the like to describe the Wima " sounds " because those audiophiles adjectives are not shared by Wima caps. Perhaps the only one is: neutral but not the neutral meaning in the " past " but a true NEUTRAL. Wima is not an audiophile cap but a MUSIC lover caps, that's what Wima is. Btw, I never imagine that my room/system had the today so high quality performance levels when in reality always that quality levels been there hidden through the added overall system developed colorations/distortions/noises. Yes, it's a great discovery for me. R. |
Dear friends: With more time/hours listening my NEW systems with that WIMA caps in the crossover not only can confirm those two characteristics that only have the live MUSIC: POWER and CLEARLY ( not pristine but clearly. ). Now I can say that through the WIMA caps that almost " don’t touch/degrade " the signal the MUSIC FLOW in a totally free way, just like live MUSIC, and not only that but the TEXTURE of each note/harmonics of instruments that you can " cut with a knife " ( positevely. ). You can " touch " those notes/harmonics ( textually. ). Other characteristic is its full COHERENCE and INTEGRATION of all instruments in what you are listen it. Tjhe experience is so REAL that you have to live it to understand all those characteristics. Just FANTASTIC ! ! believe me. I know that those adjectives is not the first time you read it but its meaning through the WIMA caps is not different but leaves to you to other order of magnitude. Yes those WIMA are my long audio life discovery of discoveries. So to the ones of you that wants or are looking not for a different but for a true better quality performance levels I invite you to test the WIMA caps at your tweeter and mid range speakers crossover. Boutique caps are almost a " joke " against the humble and inexpensive WIMA. Good luck I have to return to follow enjoying MUSIC as never before. R. I forgot, I will report on WIMA woofer crossover caps when I put my hand on it because due that I need 100uf is not easy task to find out as with the tweeters/mid range caps. |
Glad you like them. I would not paint with the broad brush you use saying all boutique caps are a joke. I tried Wima and they are nothing special to me. Certainly no Vcap Odam or Miflex copper foil! This is all subjective based on your ears, preferences and particular room and piece of gear the caps are installed in. Great when you find something that works for you. |
Over at the Humble Capacitor review site they liked it fine giving it a rating of 8 which is pretty average. Not poor, not great like many “boutiques”. That jives with my experience with these in both crossovers and electronics. They are pretty average. The quote from the Humble site..... WIMA MKP 10 100VDC - 10% tolerance Technical specifications (according to manufacturer): "Pulse capacitor. The construction principle of the series WIMA MKP 10 consists of a non-metallized dielectric film and an carrier film metallized on both sides acting as electrode. Thanks to the metallization on both sides, the electrical conductivity is considerably improved and the contact surface between the electrodes and the schoopage layer is doubled. This results in better contact and allows for high current and pulse loading capability. The properties of metallized capacitors such as excellent self-healing and high volume capacitance remain unchanged." Sound: With the WIMA MKP 10 you get a neutral, smooth and well balanced capacitor. For this price range the amount of transparency is quite reasonable and overall the MKP 10 is pleasant to listen to. Compared to the similar shaped and sized Mundorf RXF the presentation is more forward and a fraction less clear. But never the less it has good overall sound qualities. Don't forget to give it some time to burn-in. Fresh out of the box they sound restricted and dynamics are limited. After several weeks of use they should open-up. Verdict: 8 |
You may want to try the new Vcap Odam as they are more neutral than the PIOs you don’t seem to like. They are much more 3D dimensional than the Wima cap and not very big physically. It sounds like the better caps are revealing some negative sound attributes unique to your system and ears while the Wima caps are masking it. This would make sense as the Wima caps are not top class in resolution or refinement. That is why I say this can be very subjective based on your system’s sound including It’s relative sonic strengths and weaknesses. |
Dear @grannyring : As a fact the caps in the woofer crossovers are V-caps and in the past I use it in all the speaker crossover drivers. Sure, I can test the 4.7uf in the tweeters to " see " first differences with the OIMP and after that with the WIMA ones. Chris is a friend and I use too V-caps teflon Cu with very good success. Normally in audio all is room/system dependent and owner MUSIC/sound priorities, no doubt about. My system was and follows listened by many gentlemans that are first than all MUSIC lovers and second audiophiles and some music players. Not only for me but for them the unanimous opinion is that the room/system strength is its very high resolution where there is no place to hide any weak characteristic in any link of the system chain. A few years ago a friend of mine and me designed and builded a SS active and current drive phonolinepreamp that in my Agon virtual system you can read about, its name Essential 3150/3160 and exist 7 gentlemans over the audio world that till today are way proudly owners. Which were the main targets when we started that way learning project?: accuracy ( not analytical but accurated. ) and high resolution putting the overall distortions /colorations/noises and the like at minimum and fortunatelly and after hundreds ( literally. ) of tests active and passive parts, modeling boards layouts, measurements, listened long sessions of recordings where we know even the kind of " color " of its " errors " and the sound of the tick and pops, listened evaluations against other phonolinepreamps ( integrated or separated. ) like: FM Acoustics, Gryphon, Dartzeel, Boulder, Lamm, Audio Note, M.Levinson, Krell, Halcro and others ( this similar products came some from my friends and some from my dealer friends. When we finished ( after 3 long years for the 3150 and another year for the 3160. ) we was and are totally sure not only by our " mouth " but from my audio friends that nothing ( and I mean it. ) can’t touch our Essential. Even today is way competitive against any other unit you can name it. For the same targets a couple years ago I finished a self design and manufacture ( along other friend. ) a unique tonearm. I write this not because I’m a conceit person no nothing like that, far away from there. You can read in my Agon virtual system, please read it carefully, why the system has that so high resolution with no place to hide anything. Anyway, I will test the ODAM and will see if can beats the WIMA because the boutique caps that I tested in my system no one outperforms the WIMA in the speaker crossovers. """ Wima caps are not top class in resolution or refinement. """ I respect your opinion but IMHO no other cap has the WIMA " perfect " resolution and about " refinement almost every audiophile has his own definition. Now, things could be the other way around: that with out very high resolution room/system we can’t be aware of the greatness of WIMA MKP10 because is an uncolored device with no self signature: just straigth with no common audiophile adjectives to describe the sound quality. As any one here my reference is live MUSIC and in my case: seated at near field position like the recording microphones positions: nearfield. My main room/system target is to stay truer to the recording nearest to it. Rigth now WIMA gave and gives me a nearest place that ever before to that target. I’m not married with anything but MUSIC and I’m a really a severe critic of my system and try to be very objective about and over tests and evaluations/comparisons too. You can be sure that I don’t like mislead my self. I would like to know where you made the ODAM comparison against the MKP10 or other caps against WIMA. Your statement: """ Wima caps are not top class in resolution or refinement . """ was exactly my way of thinking several years ago and that’s why I have in " stock " some values of WIMA caps, many because everywhere where I seen Wima I changed for other " better " cap. I will finish the overall speaker caps changes and after that maybe I will do the same ( step by step. ) in my electronics. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
JFYI A diyaudio member did some interesting ESR tests: https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/346861-esr-measurements-capacitors.html |
Dear @imhififan :really interesting info.Btw, that Wima caps was designed in specific for HF applications and inside the very humble Wima prices that one is the cheap one,lower than 1 dollar a piece. RM ( whom pass away.) posted ( I'm not sure but maybe in the same forum.) his coments of boutique fuses where he found out that severalof damaged electronics that he received to fix it the the source of the problem was developed by those fuses that owners changed and that according him justdoes not meet the electrical proved standards. So it's not surprise the information with the Duelund. Unfortunatelly does not exist measured information that can explain the different caps coloration/distorions levels that could explain what our ears perceives. Btw, it's worth to try/test the MKP 10 in your speaker crossovers. Just by curiosity. R |
Dear @grannyring : There is something important in our audio decisions and that’s to what kind of sound we are accustom to, this characteristic defines our sound priorities and of course if something do not likes in our system quality performance we defines what we are looking for. One way or the other all of us are accustomed to some kind of system " colorations " accustomed and love some kind of system " distortions " but what we like not always is rigth and many times we like " things " that are not directly related with the sound of live MUSIC. I’m no exception about and through the years and along the system up dates/up grades and tweaks ( that we loved. ) some day I took in count from where came the better quality performance from those " tweaks " and the answer is from lower and different kind of colorations and lowr every kind of distortions. I remember when I hard wired all my electronics at the input electrical power with out the use of male and female electrical power connectors: I soldered the cables directly to the boards. With that move/action some colorations/distortions just disappeared and other gone at lower levels.. Same happened when and due that I have fully regulated and bullet proof electrical lines souce I take out all the input fuses in the system electronics. I have to say that I was using boutique fuses type. Same result when I changed all the electronics electrical power cables by 100% silver instead cooper. The phenomeno was and is almost always that: some colorations/distortions disappears ( like " magic ". ) and other colorations and distortions goes lower. So, I can’t remember when I just stop to love " colorations/distortions " but all those experiences help me to recognize and be aware of colorations/distortions in very precise way and I know for sure that my WIMA changes don’t fool my self. I have a evaluation proccess that I follows and time to time I make up-dates on it. The advantage of this proccess is ( between other things ) that’s repetitive and this makes evaluations almost " easy " but time consuming. When I’m invited to listen a system at friends places I always bring with me 3-4 recordings only for a " fast trak " evaluation and I have to say that till today never fails. That’s why I made and make emphasis that with an open mind try to give an opportunity to the MKP 10 at the crossovers. After that if you still think that Wima " is not top class in resolution..." then I can tellyou that that room/system is in trouble somewhere in one or more links of the system chain. You can be sure Wima is not the culprit, Wima shows you the nearest real quality performance of your system. Wima can give us what I was looking for in this thread title: A HARMLESSS and SIGNATURELESS capacitor. No colorations or distortions I can be aware or detected, at least till today. In any " event " the use of Wima caps in crossovers and does not matters if you like it or not could be a learning lesson. Btw, before this thread I never think of Wima caps for my speakers crossovers, as a fact the idea born through this thread and fortunatelly ( for me. ) was and is an unexpected beautiful surprise and very hard to believe it till we listen. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
I forgot. Please don’t wait/expect that you will listen with the Wima caps something different but " similar " to those colorations/distortions we are accustom to. So we need to give time to our ears/brain to switch to the new kind of sound. It’s important this issue because Wima has not colorations you can detect it and the very low distortion levels is omething that we are not accustom to. Well if some of you test those MKP 10 you will have a new experiences with your room/systems. Something I had to do was to fine tunning ( again ) the system subwoofers and a minimum position change in one of the main speakers. Btw, something that improved in my system through Wima is the solid/solidity focus in the sound stage. I’m still learning about the improvements the system achieved. Again, that the extremely low price of Wima don’t worry you don't be intimidated for it. I know that we can ask: how a 8 dollar cap can outperforms a 400 dollar caps? Wima is the kind of audio devices where price has not any relationship with the devices quality performance levels that’s just superb. R. |
Dear friends : I can't find out yet the source for the Wima 100uf that goes in the speaker crossover. In the mean time I'm thinking to make a really critical test that it's to change the V-cap Teflon Cu for a MKP 10 in the high pass filter in my bi-amp speaker/subwoofer. I don't use the subwoofer high pass electronics instead I made the high pass filter taking advantage that my Levinson amps are coupled by cap at the input. To do that I need first than all open the amps and take a look/measure the distance between the circuit boards holes because the original cap was 2.2uf and for the high pass is way lower value and due that the Wima are radial caps I think maybe I can't do it directly because the lower value cap has a shorter distance in between pins and I don't want to add cable to solder at the board. I will do all my effoprt I can because if the Wima can, at least, even the V-cap Teflon Cu well that could be admirable for say the least. We will see. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
Hi Raul... finally ordered a pair of the MKP10s to try against my 4.7uF Duelund Tinned-Copper CAST high-pass tweeter caps. I'll let you know what the comparison sounds like. Also planning on trying the ODAMs in my pre-amp, but am not quite ready to spring the $150 for a trial... easy to pull the trigger on the $20 for the WIMA capss and shipping. |
Dear @grannyring : You are rigth but for the mid-range filter I need 16.8uf. Now, are you saying that two 2.2uf in parallel performs with better quality levels that a single 4.7uf? A second question ( not for the ODAM.): is there any advantage to use two caps in series against a single capor parallel caps? because before I received the 4.7uf caps I was listening to two 10uf Wima caps and performs very well too. I read somewhere that two in series caps reduce impedance but I don't know for sureor if exist a trade-off about. Thank’s in advance, appreciated. R. |
Dear @grannyring : Sorry I was totally wrong, in series comes higher resistence. I would like to insist on the parallel caps issue conection not in my speaker crossover where I will follow your advise and see if exist any improvement. I will do this in the tweters and band-pass crossover because I already have the Wima caps need it for that. Now, I already ordered to Mouser two Wima 0.033uf to use at the input of my Levinson monobloks in the high pass filter ( biamping system. ) instead the today V-cap teflon Cu. I don't like to make more harm to the Levinson circuit board and I say this because I already made several changes in that specific input cap. So my question is that if you or other gentleman think that using there two caps in parallel ( I have 0.022 and 0.01uf that I take out somewhere in the electronics. ) will perform better than the single 0.033uf? I will follow the advise of you and if I don't have a tiny improvement then I will come back to the teflon Cu and I will don't touch the board again. Thank's in advance. R. |
