Check out the Guru super Juniors ,
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I know everyone wants to mention the speakers they happen to own. I'm no different. :-)
I did quite a few auditions last year (including Tekton DI), and ended up with a used set of Revel F208s for $3k. They should punch above the $3k speakers mentioned (I have not compared them all) because they are $5k speakers, because Harman is a good speaker company, and they have gotten excellent reviews. I see them here regularly for around $3k used. |
Having owned both open baffle and box speakers, there's nothing like the openness of open baffle. In your range I highly recommend the Emerald Physics KCIIs. They are offering a ridiculous special right now. Hurry |
I ran a pair of Reference 3A Venna with same Bryston amp for three years. They are a great match. Usually available used.
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New, I would get Vandersteen 2Ce Sig II. Those are one of the biggest bargains in high end audio. But those Thiels will be even better overall, especially if you upgrade the crossover components. Tom Thiel is working on an upgrade kit.
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My vote for the Maggie 1.7i with a REL sub of some kind. They serve me amazing. Auditioned Focal, PSB, GoldenEar and KEF in the range and walked away with the Maggie's. ALMOST walked away with the Vandersteens though, so second on those as well.
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this is a no brainer. $1000 sub + $2000 full range mains like REVEL F206s (or other top quality full range speakers), you can easily find a $4000 combo for under $3k. This combo will be fantastic for the money |
Your best value will always be a good DIY design. It's not even close. No commercial loudspeaker can ever come close to what you can build yourself. There are any number of truly excellent designs out there. And if you don't have the ability to fabricate your own enclosures, any competent cabinet maker can knock them out for you for a shockingly small amount of money.
The Linkwitz LXmini design dramatically outperforms any commercial loudspeaker under $3k. You can build it, WITH amplification, for about $1100. That's what I did last year for a buddy of mine. If you can push your budget to about $4k, you could build the flagship Linkwitz LX521 system and have sound that compares to commercial systems in the $50,000+ category.
There are any number of excellent designs at madisound.com as well. |
Absolutely LOVE my Tekton Double impact monitors, depending on the size of your room you could get the full size Double Impacts and reach the sky. The word "monitors" is not a very good description as they are quite large and more than fill my 14x30 listening space, just ask my neighbors! 60day money back guarantee too. |
It appears that only one person has actually addressed your original question. Responding to it, plus a few other things as follows:
1) It is likely your speakers causing the fatigue. The OM7 have an upward tilt in the higher frequencies and reviews them commented about them having some glare.
2) Your room could be contributing to the glare. I always suggest treating the first reflection points (free information on GIK Acoustics site and they will make recommendations for your room for free and have great products at good prices).
3) You need to decide what speaker type speaks to you. Your current speakers are a bipolar design. If you like the more diffuse sound they bring, a dipolar Magnepan may fill your need. My reluctance for you with a Magnapan is that your amp may not have enough power depending on your volume levels. The LRS is an amazing value and would leave a lot of money in your pocket. People tend to love or hate bipolar and dipolar speakers. They do some things well, others not so much. I have large Magnepans and love them, but that doesn’t make them correct for you.
4) Some have suggest horns. Horns have amazing dynamics but sacrifice in other areas. You have to listen to some (Klipsch being most he most common brand and well developed) and decide if they fit your likes. Again, they tend to be love it or hate them.
5) Monopolar dynamic speakers are the most common design. Different manufactures have different philosophies about what is most important in design and what they are willing to trade off (i.e. phase coherence, efficiency, bass extension, off axis response characteristics, cabinet design, tonal balance, etc.). Again, you have to pick what you find important. The Thiel you propose are great speakers, with my only concern being parts availability as Thiel is gone. The Vandersteen 2CE Sig 2 are another excellent suggestion, as are the suggestions of Ascent Acoustics and Salk Sound. The used suggestion of Aerials or Revels are also great.
6) I would not allocate money towards a subwoofer right now as some are suggesting. You indicate you have a Hsu subwoofer, and even their older Sonotube based subs (Like the 1220) were good sounding. |
Many good suggestions here. Do suggest you consider room size, type of music that you listen to most of the time and distance from the wall be the speaker as suggested earlier by another audiophile. I think the Monitor Audio Gold 100 with Monitor Audio Stands are worthy of consideration.
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Thanks so much for all of the information and taking the time to respond! I tried the Thiels but they seemed a bit harsh with my amp at least.
I have a line on a set of SpatialM3 Turbo S speakers which seem to be loved by many.
Got some thinking to do. I'm not complaining by the way!
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If you are interested in the Revel F 206 or 208, then check out the HomeTheaterReview.com (11/18/13) article by Brent Butterworth. It will pop up on a Google or Bing search.
He picked the smaller F 206 because he already had a HSU subwoofer (VTF - 15H), because he felt that was a better match. |
I have the Aria 926 in one system and Tannoy Revolution XT8s in the other. Both are great, but the Tannoy's are a little bit more lively and definitely have better bass. I paid $2388 for the Aria 926's in faux Walnut and got even a better deal on the Gloss White Tannoys. Both are great speakers for the price range.
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@russbutton, yes, with a little skill and patience and plenty of time, it’s difficult to beat the DIY route for value for money. Those Linkwitz designs are giant killers no doubt.
The LX521 is the end result of a fantastic amount of R&D, and close to the SOTA but beyond my current capabilities. But who knows, one day?
Buying used or direct are still far better value than buying new although a lot will depend upon resale values. Of course you might never want to sell your speakers but it’s still reassuring to know that you can recoup most of the cost anytime you want to.
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Yes, "Spatial" are realy special, you must hear them, for the $ ... Wow ! Realy impressively musical immersive. |
I've had a pair of the Ohm 1000's for about 8 years, and totally love them. I started out with a pair of the Microtalls, and was so impressed I upgraded to the 1000's. These speakers make me look forward to listening to my music. The 1000's go for about $2000.00 for a pair. Check out some of the Ohm threads on this site to get an idea how people feel about them. You can audition them for 3 months, and if you don't like them you can send them back but you have to pay shipping. It's the best chance I ever took.
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@cd318
The Linkwitz LX521 is showing up on the used market now that it's been around for a while, as are his earlier Orion design. The problem for most of those is shipping.
The hardest part of building any loudspeaker is making it look good. The LX521 may be close to SOTA, but nobody will ever call it good looking.
Any competent cabinet maker can knock together either the LX521 or Orion designs with ease and make them look as good as anyone would care. One option for the LX521 would be to have it painted at an auto body paint shop. Cabinet fabrication can be done by professionals for a very modest amount of money. Both of these designs are trivial for a pro to build.
ANYONE can stuff drivers into an enclosure, and even if they're not sure about that, shouldn't have all that much difficulty finding help.
The only real downside to DIY systems is that they have poor resale value. Not being a commercial product, they just don't have that cache. But because you spent so much less to begin with, you're not going to lose as much either. That $25,000 loudspeaker you bought 5 years ago will only bring $12,500 today, which is why Audiogon is in business.
But you are correct in saying that DIY isn't for everyone. |
@russbutton, thanks for the info on the LX521. Much appreciated.
No it’s not the best looking loudspeaker in the world but some finishes are more palatable than others. If one turns up in cherry (or any other light finish) here in the UK I’m definitely interested.
Siegfried Linkwitz was nothing if not methodical and relentless in his efforts to continually perfect his designs with admirable attention to detail. |
We sell new and used equipment and we always suggest to our customers if they can find a used piece of equipment they like, to buy it instead of buying new. With used equipment you get much more for your money than buying new. Several people have suggested buying Vandersteen 2Ce Sig's and it is a good suggestion but for the same amount of money you could buy a used pair of 3A sig's. You can get much more for the same amount of money. These days with so few audio stores around more and more people find it impossible to find an audio dealer within a reasonable distance from them, many times good used equipment can found close by and at a reasonable price.
Planers are normally on our list of suggested speakers but since you found the Thiel's harsh in your room we suggest you may want to avoid planers and horns for the same reasons you did not like the Thiel's.
Here is a list of used speaker that are our best sellers. Your budget will tell you what models you can afford.
Vandersteen, Focal, Martin logan, Gallo 3.5 ( try it without the sub amp first) PSB, Sonas Faber, Legacy, and B&W.
If you are patient and are not in a hurry you can find some really good deals on used speakers. We just sold a pair of B&W 802N's in perfect condition for almost the same price as what your budget is because we did not have the original boxes and it would have not been worth the time or money to build crates and ship them so we opted to sell them locally cheap. When it comes to speakers and turntables (for us anyway) it is better to sell it locally at a lower price than to build shipping crates and boxes, pay the extra price for shipping, incur losses from shipping damage, to only come out a few percentage points ahead. If you are have cash at had and are fast making a dicision you can take advantage of these situations.
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I'm no expert and so I'll confine my suggestions to what I own and know. The new Magnepan LRS are only $650 + $70 shipping (a fixed fee). I have a pair and I think they're an extremely nice speaker, especially for the price. I also have a pair of original Vandersteen 2c speakers. I like them too (and used pairs are pretty cheap). I prefer the imaging of the LRS vs. the 2c but the Vandersteens (not surprisingly) have much better bass extension. A problem with the LRS and other such is space for correct speaker placement. From what the OP wrote, I guess the listening room likely won't suffer from that constraint. In any event, good luck and have fun!
Keith
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So I had another audition with Magnepans recently, this time the MG.7s (aka .7s). Steve Guttenberg’s comments in his YouTube vid for this particular model, and how he even prefers them to the 3.7s, piqued my interest.
This audition was a in a different room, with different gear from my own, so not apples-to-apples, so take it FWIW. However, the partnering gear was of a similar class to my own. For whatever reason, the .7s sounded far better than what I remember of the 1.7s I owned, maybe with the exception of bass extension. I can only guess this might be due to the .7s being 2-ways while the 1.7s are 3-ways. I often find myself disappointed in the sound of 3-way speakers, and it’s my suspicion that the additional crossover found in these designs is sucking out some low-level information. The proponents of single-driver speakers often claim that’s the design’s ace-card, the omission of a crossover. I’m beginning to think that’s a valid argument.
Anyhow, the following is how I’d rank speakers I’ve either auditioned recently, or own, that can be had for $3K, from best overall performance to least (assuming compatible room and gear). Keep in mind that these models, at a minimum, have slight differences in strengths and weaknesses. The ranking is only for how likely I’d be able to live with them long-term, with "mid-fi" ancillaries. Also, I omitted models that are difficult to find or rarely come up on the used market.
Spatial M4 Triode Masters
Magnepan .7s.
Rega RX-5 (these surprised me)
Spatial M4 Turbo S
New Large Advents *with refreshed parts (no, not kidding, when was the last time you heard a pair with modern gear?)
Tannoy XT6F, or Vandersteen 1Ci
Heresy III or Vandersteen 2CE Signature2
There are many others but I haven’t auditioned or owned them in a long-time.
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Focal Aria 936 has been mentioned here a few times and I agree - it is a solid option, particularly at its sale price of $2799 new.
However, I enjoyed the Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers with RAAL tweeters more. Also under $3K. David is also a super nice guy and helped me out whenever I had any questions.
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If you like the Thiels then go with them as there isnt a lot out there that sounds similar . Listen for midrange/ treble hardness as Thiels not sourced just right can be fatiguing. also they are not kind to soso recordings and compression and classic rock is generally not recorded well.
Totem speakers sound a little like Thiel for extension but are more colorful and forgiving. The Forest or Mani 2 might work here. Hawks are some of the best jazz speakers around but a little small for rock
If the above is just too bright check out some Vienna acoustics baby Beethoven grand or larger. They are fantastic on classic rock and are very forgiving of recordings .
All the above need power but your amp should work well |
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... New: abit off the grid: Vapor Audio Stiff Breeze; vintage: floor standing Gershman Avant Garde RX-20 early 2000s, Usher BE218 |
Again: sorry for this most recent Senior moment: should be Usher BE718 |
I know I’m a bit late to the conversation here but I bought a pair of Goldenear Triton 5’s brand new for $2,000.00. Now, these obviously are not the bigger models with the additional Speakers and powered Subs.. however! They sound really really nice. I added two JL Audio Dominion D108 Subs just because I tend to like much more Bass than some folks might. Whether I’m playing Miles Davis Kind of Blue, Black Sabbath, or A Live Grateful Dead Show, they consistently sound nice to me.
I use a Parasound Halo A21 Amp and P5 Pre-Amp. Bottom of the Barrel to many, but for my budget and ears, it’s a good Speaker for a fraction of most others. |
Ohm Walsh 2000
Quad s4
Spendor a4
Proac Dt8
Kef R3 & 5
Revel Concerta2 f36
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I don’t agree that you can’t get a good speaker for $3k for if you have good subwoofers which I do Svs sb3000 the Amphion 3s is a very detailed well built speaker at under $3k , and I always mod the Xovers for rarely does a Company put good components in a Xover unless you are spending over $10 k on average from my 40
years in Audio they look to save money and most never even compare or know what modding or upgrading is ,the use Chinese
junk ,ceramic resistors ,keep that in mind ,instant improvement. |
slightly used harbeth c7es3. recommended for you to investigste based on prior ownership. |
I too own the excellent but a hidden secret in the USA .they just sound like music thst is probably why their 1-18, and 2-18
which are the industry standards now in the recording industry for
monitors for mixing,editing sound tracks good or bad they let you know what is on the recording they have so much potential I replaced allthe wiring with Neotech Occ Teflon copper wire the excellent Jantzen Alumen and clarity csa capacitors Cornell bypass caps . Worlds best path audio resistors and Mundorf evo loudspeaker terminals these Seas drivers ,and rear passive radiator reallyfil out the bass that does honest low 40 hz
i could not find a better speaker at double the cost .
with the Xover upgrade excellent detail but more more lock on imaging having the time aligned wave guide very easy to place in any room . |
The latest Vandersteen 2CESig 3 would have to be in your consideration. In its latest form, it uses the patented Five A series woven cone midrange/ Tweeters the word is spreading nicely. A Fact, this series is the best selling loudspeaker in Hi End history.
Best, JohnnyR Vandersteen Dealer
Verona NJ
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The Aerial 10T is very difficult to beat and falls into your price point.
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