I am brand new to vinyl, but quite established in digital (CDs, lossless streaming, etc.).
I made the first foray to vinyl by purchasing an entry level turntable - Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC Esprit.
I am using an Ayre pre-amp with phono stage and also Ayre amp.
While I am happy I have it up and running, I don’t think it sounds as good as my digital setup (Directstream DAC).
So what can I do to improve, short of buying a much more expensive turntable?
Things in my mind:
1 - Since it accepts DC power, buy a linear power supply
2 - Since my Phone stage on my preamp only accepts XLR three-pin connector, I bought a male RCA to male XLR cable from Amazon, less than $20. Do I need a better interconnect?
3 - Upgrade the cartridge (it comes with Ortfofon Red something)
Music is a very personal thing, so you'll have to decide what floats your boat. A couple of newer releases that should be readily available everywhere that could help you figure your sound out:
St. Vincent - Masseducation Tony Bennett & Lady Gaga - Cheek to Cheek
IME, jazz and niche artists seem to release better sounding vinyl records in general and recently in particular. Not sure why that is or if it's even a "rule of thumb," but a lot of the bigger acts just sound kind of flat to me.
Don't tweak your Pro-Ject beyond a new stylus, alignment and cable. Save your money, find music you like and keep your eyes peeled here and other boards. You can pick up one really serious rig complete for ~$4K in the second-hand market.
Remember, shopping for audio gear is kind of like re-aligning a cartridge: Take your time, take breaks when you need to and don't stress about any of it.
FWIW, If not sure go the least expensive avenue, Vynil gets real expensive real fast. Sure all the recommendations are great and useful but you'lL never recoup your outlays if you decide you don't like the whole Vynil experience. It can be quite a shock not being able to hit a button to skip a track. There is a lot of intimacy required with vynil. Just my opinion. I personally am on the vynil side of the tracks.
+1 gasbose! That Dynavector high-output mc cartridge will handily outperform ANY Ortofon mm! I myself have one in my collection of various cartridges! Just do a careful alignment and setup! Don't waste money on fancy cables! Buy an original US or UK pressing from the 70's of Pink Floyd's DSOTM to use as a reference (sounds better than any of the new reissues)!
+1 on the Nagaoka 150 cartridge; also, their MP-110 is very good, and only $120. I’d forget about the turntable until you find a cartridge you like, and have it correctly aligned. What are you using to play CDs?
I will not even try to get into digital vs analog discussions. At best it’s been covered a trillion times and at worst what sounds great to me may sound average to you. But to put your situation in another perspective that may make better sense you have a high performance car with the cheapest tires. You can change the air pressure, balance the wheels differently even put a heavy load in the trunk and each time the ride will be different. You will only get the best ride out of your car when the tires are appropriate for your car. In all instances all tires will get you from A to B.
Upgrade to the Ortofon Blue needle. It fits on your Red cartridge and is only $200. It tracks well at about 1.80 grams
Upgrade RCA interconnects.
I use an acrilyc mat. Some people prefer rubber or cork. Yes...it makes a difference you'll be able to hear.
Like Reubent said, play a good recording. Pink Floyd's remastered Dark Side of the Moon on 189 gram vinyl sounds pretty good and although it seems Diana Krall is pretty much hated around here, her new Turn Up the Quiet album sounds pretty good.
I would suggest picking a recording that you are very familiar with, research what is the best available pressing of that particular recording and buy a new copy of that to use for your "reference" piece.
@thyname - Also insure that you have a few really good sounding records to judge the sound quality of the TT when comparing it to your much more expensive digital rig. Make it a fair fight.....
Some records are simply outstanding, some are good and some are bad. Just like digital.....
While I agree that cables typically give you the least bang for the buck, the stock cable on the Pro-Ject was especially bad. Replacing it with the Audio Sensibility cable, at about $125 USD, really brought my vinyl playback to life. The stock cable really sucked.......
Vinyl vs digital is very subjective. Personally I love vinyl for serious listening; my CD player is for background listening only. And I can seldom use online services like Tidal as my wife insists it sounds like Muzak (it actually does).
If you're in to high quality sound and are prepared for the inconvenience of vinyl (I prefer it because it's interactive; not all do), then stick with your Pro-Ject for now; never mind that it's entry level - it's well spoken of. Upgrade your cartridge - as Simao says, the Dynavector is amazing -- I love mine -- if you're prepared to put in the money. Forget about interconnects for now -- they don't make a difference until you've seriously upgraded your whole system.
What speakers are you using? You get the most bang for your buck a the ends of the music chain -- the cartridge and speakers.
Set-up is the missing step in most vinyl rigs. Few can do it, and fewer bother. Yet it is not hard - it just requires perseverance.
Alignment, set-up, whatever it’s called - you need to adjust the relationship of the stylus to the vinyl. This includes: VTA (vertical tracking angle, whether the tonearm slants up or down); overhang (distance from tonearm pivot to stylus); VTF (vertical tracking force); azimuth (done with shims on one side of the cartridge on budget tonearms); and torque on the mounting screws.
Think of it this way: the TT gives you stability and reduces noise; the tonearm relates the cartridge to the TT; and the cartridge makes the signal. Obviously, to give its best, the cartridge must be held in correct relation to the vinyl. Also note that cartridges wear out. TT and tonearms, not so much.
You are killing me guys! Especially with those analogies. I know it’s an entry level TT. Totally aware. Trying to figure out whether the inconvenience of vinyl is something I can live with, while improving the sound with what I have right now and minor tweaks.
It seems like upgrading to Blue Ortofon is probably doable.
Maybe some ~ $200 Interconnects too.
I have already ordered a cleaning kit, and a level.
I agree with the comments above you dropped a budget cable into what sounds like a very revealing top tier system. I would recommend finding a good dealer who will not only sell you a table but will expertly set it up and fit it with a cartridge that is compatible with your phono stage. Trust me if you don't have a TT that sounds as good as or better than your digital you will stop listening to it.
With that project turntable feeding your air system, it's like using a red solo cup to drink really good champagne. The table is good for what it is, but your downstream components are going to reveal all its weaknesses.
Still, you can do a lot with it with a better cartridge. You might try a Dynavector 10 X5 Also, ask around your audio store if there's anyone in the area who might be free to come over and help you set up your turntable in cartridge so everything is aligned and cracked the right way. Someone who's in the know about vinyl can really teach you a lot about how to get the best sound out of your system.
I did have to remove the load resistor out of the phono board on Ayre K-1xe, as it was 100 ohms and muffled the sound a lot. According to Ayre, the Ortofon red cartridge was best with no loading. I had to open the Ayre up to do all this.
The gain resistor is 10 ohm, so that means loudest setting, but it's OK, I can manage.
I don't know what re-alignment means, but I will look it up.
The cable I got is RCA on one end and XLR on the other. No adapter used. That's what Ayre's manual recommended.
+1 reubent. FWIW, I'd start with the 2M Blue stylus and complete re-alignment. Those things often have a bigger effect than cables. I'm not a big fan of XLR adapters; just another mechanical interface set to introduce noise. Caig DeOxit should be all you might conceivably need given the age of your gear.
Cartridge compatibility is not a concern; your Ayre will handle pretty much anything. Just make sure your phono section gain is set to 40 dB and resistance is 50 kOhms for your 2M Red or any other MM cart.
That said, some speakers like some cartridges better than others. That's something that is largely subjective and has been addressed in many other threads. Again, I wouldn't worry about it; you;re just trying to get a handle on whether the vinyl thing is good for YOU.
Note that the LP itself can have a dramatic effect. Some are just plain bad, and some will rock your world. Most are in the middle somewhere. Use a decent cleaning process (once more, lots of threads here on that) and pick some music you like.
FWIW, I feel that vinyl is superior to digital in every way. I have a superior DAC, disc player and vinyl rig and after doing hours of A-B testing, I'm always happier with the vinyl. It just sounds more natural to my ears.
That's why this is such a fun hobby: Finding that happy listening!
I own a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB. Here is what I did to improve the stock performance, at a moderate price:
Replaced the stock interconnect cable with a cable from Audio Sensibility. Significant improvement IMHO. I paid the $10 extra for break-in service so I didn't have to wait days/weeks.....
Performed a complete re-alignment, including level, overhang, azmuth and tracking force. VTA was checked and was OK, but not easily adjustable.
Replaced the Ortofon 2M Red Stylus with a 2M Blue Stylus. When I did this, the cartridge moved in the headshell and I performed a complete re-alignment again.
I find it helps to think in terms of %'s. With a decent cartridge (think $400-$500 new) your table, arm, interconnects, etc., can get you 90-95% of what is reasonably achievable. It is that last 5-10% that requires super stable table, seriously engineered arm, and a cartridge and interconnects made from un-obtainium. Try a mid-compliance cartridge and let your speakers tell you the truth. .
thyname-perhaps someone will chime in with a suggestion for a value cart. I imagine you want minimal investment moving forward. I'm not sure that would be the solution, since the stock cart is supposed to be decent,relative to the table.
You bought a budget table, it comes with limited expectations.
Audio Technica seems to be a go to,recommendations sure to come.
Find a dealer/store who sells hi-end tables and see if you can get a loaner to try in your system. That would include a nice cartridge. That should help you to make up your mind. If you don't care for the sound then no sense in upgrading your Project, and you can simply sell it. Or, maybe the dealer will have a future sale. Kenny
@tablejockey you are 100% right on expectations - and I am totally aware of it. But I am not investing big dollars on a top shelf TT until I figure out vinyl is good for me.
Phono stage is top class. It is a Ayre K-1xe preamp with the optional phone stage included, which at that time costed MSRP of $1,800 additional upgrade.
I was just thinking in terms of temporary "stop gap" measure doing something with what I have.
First you can replace that awful cartridge to something much better. Even if you will upgrade with turntable and tonearm later you will need a cartridge. Everything starts with a cartridge when you play vinyl. I have upgraded the same turntable for a friend, we just changed the cartridge and he was so happy. His new cartridge was Stanton 881s mkII with Stereohedron stylus, but it could be much better with Audio-Technica AT-ML170 from the 80s (this cartridge is one of the best MM money can buy) and works fine on many tonearms. It's a mid compliance cartridge. You can also try wonderful Grace F9 or F14 cartridges.
"I made the first foray to vinyl by purchasing an entry level turntable - Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC Esprit."
"While I am happy I have it up and running, I don’t think it sounds as good as my digital setup (Directstream DAC)."
You may have your expectations too high? You got what you paid for. If you made an investment equal to your digital side, IMO your perception may have been different.
Linear PS and cables are a waste of money with the level of table you have. I would up my game with a budget tubed phono unit and maybe another cart.
Don't expect WOW moments with a budget table setup if you have a decent digital front end. Phono stage is important as well.
I would just enjoy the novelty and save for a serious table/cart/phonostage.
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