I'm reasonably certain it was Wm. Congreve who penned the immortal line, "hell hath no fury like a _ _man scorned. Anyway, somehow, reading through this thread reminded me of an English lit class I took when I was a lad. :)
Can Magnepan survive Wendell Diller?
I bought my first set of Magnepans in 1976, and I currently have a pair of 1.7i's.
It is difficult for me to upgrade to the 3.7i's because their are so many things that the company can do to improve their product that they simply won't offer; upgraded crossover components, a solid wood/rigid frames and better stands are examples.
Other companies are now doing this, but Magnepan always says Wendell doesn't think that is a good idea.
Can a man who suggests using lamp cord for his speaker line really have that much control over an otherwise unique technological approach to speaker design? I must be missing something obvious when a product is hand assembled in MN and any of these upgrades would, in my mind, warrant factory upgrades. Who wouldn't spend an extra $1k for a 1.7i with a hardwood frame and an upgraded x-over? Adding a ribbon tweeter to the 1.7i would warrant an additional $1k, still bringing them in $2k under the 3.7i.
Is it common for one person to hold an entire company back in high end audio?
It is difficult for me to upgrade to the 3.7i's because their are so many things that the company can do to improve their product that they simply won't offer; upgraded crossover components, a solid wood/rigid frames and better stands are examples.
Other companies are now doing this, but Magnepan always says Wendell doesn't think that is a good idea.
Can a man who suggests using lamp cord for his speaker line really have that much control over an otherwise unique technological approach to speaker design? I must be missing something obvious when a product is hand assembled in MN and any of these upgrades would, in my mind, warrant factory upgrades. Who wouldn't spend an extra $1k for a 1.7i with a hardwood frame and an upgraded x-over? Adding a ribbon tweeter to the 1.7i would warrant an additional $1k, still bringing them in $2k under the 3.7i.
Is it common for one person to hold an entire company back in high end audio?
190 responses
ejlif1,304 posts05-23-2021 8:53pmI bought a pair of the LRS just for fun. I've had a lot of expensive speakers over the years and these little guys just blew my mind. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Everywhere I turn, , the comments on the magnepan's can be summed up with one word ~~WOWWW~~~ All the audiophiles can;t be wrong. Its like Magnepan are Kings of the speaker hill. Trying to find cash now for a pair. Under 1G, the LRS is affordable for any level audiophile. If they prove as good as what I am reading, I just don't see how any other speaker lab will be around in the near/distant future. The current state of the economy is **best bang for the buck** unless you own alot of stocks,, well then you can get the Wilson's $975,000 speaker,,,but for most of us, a LRS is really all we need. Under 1G. WOW |
Over the course of the last several years, notwithstanding last year, on several occasions many of us in the local audio club would gather at a local member’s house. He is a dealer for several brands and always has something new to listen to in one room. In the other room, in the main portion of the house, are the 3.7i speakers - many have come and gone... the 3.7i have see many a Johnny come lately come and go. Invariably, during the course of the visit, everyone would matriculate from the new stuff to where the Maggies are, me included. Lot’s less talking going on and a lot more record spinning. There was always something "right" going on in there. So me, being the smart guy I am, put 2 and 2 together and told myself, "Hey Dufus, you should get a pair of those speakers." So, last year I bought a pair of barely used 3.7i speakers and could not be happier. I don’t know what I would upgrade to. It is interesting that the OP complains about a lack of upgrades being offered, then performs an upgrade to his 1.7i speakers which was engineered / measured, and concludes the process to be... "a waste of $290". So much bitchin’ about Wendell not offering an upgrade... upgrade performed... upgrade not worth it. Am I the only one noting the irony? |
All audiophile newbies trying to set up a high fidelity system, but lacks the big $$'s, Read carefully this entire topic. If are STILL NOT convinced Magnepan offers one of the true high fidelity sound, then head over to the Youtube reviews for even more testimonials. , Man just spent $3K on speaker upgrades/experimenting with wide bands,,, .. afterwards I made the ~~magnepan Discovery~~~ My tech geek would say,, ~~I love my maggies~~~ I said,, **really...??** I was still stuck in the box thing, then moved into wide band thing,, and now I am sure this is the right road for my musical preferences/taste, Big gorgous midrange. Bass I'll use the W18's, highs , no big deal, I've got that covered, Thats if I need added highs. At this point, I'm not that picky, just give me rich midrange, = happy audiophile camper here. So like yeah, if you are just launching into high fidelity audio, do not do as many of us did, and go down all sorts of speaker paths, BEFORE we hit on Magnepan. Get the midrange right, then you can add bass if so needed. There are countless good bass drivers,,but high fidelity midrange,,, If not Magnepan, then where? Good luck. |
@motzartfan, I am not disputing that they are not a bargain, they are, but can be made much better, if you want to go through the trouble of doing that. And half of my 1.7i’s problems can be solved without changing the XO’s much, so the "upgrades" should be part of the technical evolution of the panels. I and others like me that have encountered the Wall of Wendell when trying to contact Magnepan, become frustrated when he stops us from contacting the technical side of the company. That goes for his giving and withholding advice on setup, compatible amps, etc. He’s not a tech person, he’s a marketing person. Most of us die-hard Magnepan fans would go to White Bear Lake for a week and donate a work week of time to keep the company solvent. And it is only the knee jerk reactions of some reply’s on this post that entirely miss the point of that and have have taken it off track and through the mud. Skip the chaff on this post, go back and read the criticisms and testimonials for Wendell and then you will understand the meaning of the original post; it's not about Magnepan, it’s about Wendell. |
For those that want data for mods of the 1.6, Danny provided before and after response data. Have anyone noticed that Danny’s modification lowered the SPL to get flatter base response? The efficiency is already low. My 1.6QR were rebuilt by Magnepan due to some delamination. I had upgraded the capacitors to Claricaps and Magnepan left them alone during the rebuild. For $675 I ended up with a practically brand new 1.6QR. Selected a new color for the sock and new wood trim. A few months ago I bypassed the fuse and removed the metal panel and tied the bi-amping posts together. An audible difference for those simple changes. The speakers sit on 2” maple slabs and the nylon washers are removed to eliminate the tilt. My opinion is that if there are simple modes that make a difference, enjoy the process of tweaking your system. I don’t think you can find a speaker measuring tool to demonstrate an increase in clarity or an improvement in the focus or imaging. So if it sounds better to you, go for it. Thank you to all who take time for these discussions. |
I wish there was someone I could take my 1.7is to within a reasonable driving distance of Chicago, who could do the crossover modifications that really bring the Magnepans to another level. I am not adept at soldering. I would rather pay someone to operate on them who is experienced. I understand that Danny Richie’s GR-Research upgrade is one such modification and switches out the ferromagnetic parts at the binding posts for ones that are not. If anyone know anybody who fits this description please let me know. Thanks. |
The one thing Magnepan could do that would not be overly expensive is to produce a solid frame like Mye stands as an option. Three things really opened up my 3.6 Maggies were Mye stands, room treatment (ficus plants behind speakers) and enough power (McIntosh MC501s). Those changes (I went thru a few amps) made the amazing sound I still love today!! |
ps582 posts07-28-2021 7:45pmOP writes regarding the discussion on his thread: "some reply’s (sic) on this post that entirely miss the point of that and have have (sic) taken it off track and through the mud." The only mud in this dreadful thread is that which has been flung at Mr. Diller. ---------------------------------- Indeed. |
Well, I'm not sure what Wendell has to do with it. Magnepan is a legend in audio. They certainly didn't get where they are without a good business strategy and it's worked. I'm amazed at how great the speakers sound considering the basic parts and construction they use, and I have a good point of comparison for how much it takes to do better as you can see from my radically "tweaked" system. If you want to spend more, their product line has always allowed people to trade up for better sound with their higher model, more expensive speakers. All of their speakers are contenders for top honors at their price points and higher. We all see a lot of valid complaints about how the cost of audio is no longer affordable for most people. Certainly, no one can fault Magnepan for that! |
I just got up from listening to John Adams "Harmonielehre" with San Fran Symph/MTT, full of wonder, awe and reverence at the power of that music - thanks to a 5.1 sys of all Maggies (20.7, 3.3, CC, REL- Emotiva). I came upon this thread, curious about the price of the 30s. Their designs are doing something right - it’s all about the sound - and that’s all there is to say about it. Like every manufactured product, there are improvements that can be made. But, just like your sweetheart - If you’re thinking of going through with getting married, believing you can improve her over time, don’t do it! |
Oh for Christ's sake, have they not taken this thread down yet? Yes, you can improve Magnepan's all day long. Risers, better stands, removing the fuse from the tweeter circuit, hardwood or hardwood plywood frames, better crossovers, a second layer of foil tape over the existing one to raise them to 8 ohms, beveling the opening in the MDF frame and adding hardwood on the outside of the frame so you don't have to use white gloves to move them, removing the bottom and adding an open baffle sub underneath…. And on and on and on. The 1.7i's going down to 40hz, as per their specs, is a joke. They have a large bump at 70hz, then fall off to almost nothing. After a million years, they still have square corners in their panels, which cause an inordinate amount of unneeded harmonic distortions in the film requiring them to pin the film to the backplane in several spots, that holds the magnets, with plastic buttons and screws. And those buttons placement are not uniform, even in pairs. Their primary goal is to be cheap. That definition of quality components and audiophile are seldom used in the same city, let alone sentence. You want Maggie’s? Buy the LRS and use a good open baffle sub as a base and you’re golden. Otherwise anything else in their line gives you the finest mid bass midrange and an ok tweeter. |
Funny, that tweeter isn’t available in the 1.7i, the bottom of the top of the line. Is that because no one would buy the 3.7i for the price difference if it was? Feel free to screw with me on a business I have dissected with some degree of malice, and found lacking. I buy Stereophile grade A products, if it doesn’t get an A, for the most part, it doesn’t get in. I still have my 1.7i's, stripped down. Would you like me to make my point? I've already rounded off the corners to the degree that I have been able to remove the buttons… |
I know the OP started this thread about issues with Wendell Diller. Well, those issues go beyond Wendell Diller. I am looking for a CCR center speaker, and filled out the Magnepan customer "Contact Us" online form. Got a very quick email response from Eric Norgaarden, apparently in their marketing dept. Eric let me know that the lead time for a CCR was "approx 20 weeks". I asked on why so long, and he stated they needed production personnel. I responded that maybe Magnepan should re-locate to another state where there are many people who would be thrilled to go to work tomorrow for an American manufacturing company. Well, Eric did not like that suggestion. He bad mouthed his own dealer in the city where I live, stated that I was a right-wing f**king moron, and that I should take my business elsewhere. And so I shall. Anyone got a suggestion on replacing a Magnepan MMG C with an upgrade? |
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Oh yeah, to @pat_from_indy 's point. My brick and mortar Magnepan dealer can’t get the factory to return their calls an email. Contact: for details. |
Regarding your center channel needs: Any KEK center channel, from the R 600’s and up will blow the Maggie’s doors off. But here’s the deal, most center, and for that matter all box speakers, lack one thing that allows them to image like Slagmapans, a rear firing driver. That's the whole shebang, want Maggie imaging? Add a rear firing midrange/tweeter. I prefer adding a rear firing full range driver like the Fostex FE168EZ 6.5" Full Range Sigma Series. It does two things. It adds "presence" and it adds that feathery ambiguity to the harmonic overtones.
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I still have a pair of 1.7s that I bought from an audio store in Michigan. I had my modder rebuild the crossovers into an outboard box. He described the parts inside as cheap junk. The rebuilt xover sounded much, much better. To my ears they sound ok stock. Nevertheless, to my ears a pair of subs is mandatory. |
@Secretguy: No, I am fully aware of the current labor market. Yes, there is an overall shortage of workers. But much of the problem is that employees are quitting their jobs when they have any issue at all with fellow workers or management to go take an almost identical job at slightly higher pay or perceived more friendly environment. But nearly all of such jobs are entry level service industry jobs. But Magnepan has what appear to be very long-term manufacturing jobs in at a company that historically can’t make enough product. Therefore, those jobs would be much more highly prized than working at Walmart or McDonalds, assuming that pay and benefits are as good or better. Having worked in an American manufacturing company, I know that the employees who manufactured our products very much appreciated the work they were doing, and the people they were working with. They felt like they had a real career with interesting work and opportunities. IMHO, a company like Magnapan has labor shortages today either because they are located away from a suitable labor pool, or the pay / benefits are substandard. Oh yeah, it might also be because management is caustic. I only say that because if an exec has no issue with cussing out a customer, I can only imagine how that exec treats the people around him / her. Have a nice day. |
Funny that geniuses here know more about (in this case) Magnepan’s business plan than Magnepan. Reminds me of the sports forum about my alma mater where the members think they know more than the hall of fame basketball coach. Of course Magnepan could use better quality components. That would compromise the value part of the product. Not all of their target market is audiophiles. |
Obviously having an established company with a steady customer base is the key to survival, and there is no need to look for better management or innovation, when you have everything under control. Just ask these companies: Kodak Sears K-Mart Radio Shack General Motors Blockbuster Polaroid Borders Pan Am Circuit City FW Woolworth SS Kresge Kay-Bee Toys Toys R Us Tower Records Pier 1 Imports Hummer American Motors CIT Group (NYSE:CIT) Enron Corp. ... Conseco Inc. ... MF Global. ... Chrysler. ... Thornburg Mortgage. ... Pacific Gas and Electric Co. ... Texaco. Etcetera….. And of course, the obsession to hold the line on costs may test them to the max with runaway inflation. |
It’s irrelevant to the intent of this thread as posted. Magnepan doesn’t need to be cheap, they need to innovate. That people have wandered off the reservation is not my fault. I asked Audiogon to remove this thread quite a while ago, but it's still here. Why do they remove other less contentious posts and leave this up? I do not know. |
