I have been lusting after a pair of electrostatic speakers for my entire life. When I was a kid the Infinity Servo Static was the big dog in town. I heard a pair of stacked (4) QUAD electrostatic when Mark Levinson was saying they were the only speakers up to his standards.
So, It was with great excitement when I ordered a pair of QUAD ESL-2912 speakers. I set them up in my listening room and they were fantastic. Even the bass was impressive, tight and went very low. However not the bass output one would get from a big powered sub-woofer. One night I was playing internet radio and I heard thunder. I walked outside and there was no rain. The thunder was coming from the speakers! Not loud but deep and tight.
I have owned lots of speakers over the years. I sold stereo systems for years when I was younger. I worked for AR for a few years. In all those years I have never heard any speaker that came close to the QUAD ESL-2912 for clarity and transient response.
Then one day the party ended. One of the speakers made a loud single CLICK, just one and then back to normal for days. Then it got much worse. It clicked and thumped every few hours. Then it clicked and thumped every few minutes.
I sent an email to the Distributor asking what to do. No answer. I sent a few more emails, no answer. The clicking was making me nuts so I removed the back cover and disconnected the panel, there are five, that was making the noise. All was back to wonderful except the left speaker was a bit softer in volume than the right speaker.
Over the next few months I sent more emails and my tone turned angry. Finally they sent me a replacement panel. Before the replacement panel arrived more panels went bad in the first speaker and then the second speaker.
Next we shipped both speakers to the factory repair center. Six months they returned with banged up cabinets, torn speaker cloth and one speaker still not working!
So my $ 13,000.00 dream speakers have bitten me. Years ago I had KLH 9 speakers (also full range electrostatic) and never had trouble with them until they died and couldn’t be rebuilt.
Any of you have experience with QUAD electrostatics? Some people say a rebuilt pair of the old ones are way better than the new ones. I assumed that new modern manufacturing methods would have made the new speakers super reliable.
Thoughts?? Am I within my reasonable rights to sue these guys?
I have a small business selling HiFi out of my house. Here in Maine there are very few options for stuff like Quads. So I asked for and got the local dealership. Opening order was for a pre-amp, power amp, and speakers.
We set it all up - the pre-amp hummed, the power amp got too hot the speakers were wonderful! We had the power amp fixed and sold it for cost on eBay. Sold the pre-amp for cost on eBay. The hum was very low but still I wanted no hum.
Hooked the speakers up to Benchmark power amps, 2 mono blocks 250 watts+ per side. They were wonderful speakers. And they were wonderful for around 18 months.
Thank goodness I didn't sell any speakers to customers!!
Factory says they have changed glue and fixed the problem.
Mine are in the factory boxes, all panels replaced and for sale. I have no idea if they will hold up this time or not.
I am in a smaller room now so I figured I would let them go.
I see this thread is quite old, but allow me to tell you about my saga with 989s when I was still living in England.
I heard a pair at the London Hifi Show soon after they launched and, well, let’s just say they blew me away completely.
So I went home, offloaded some gear and ordered a pair. I won’t say where from because the very well known dealer is still trading and had nothing to do with the awful issues that started almost as soon as I fired up the first pair out of the box, making that crackling and thudding noises that are familiar to many ESL owners up and down the years - but right out of the box when brand new!
My dealer, who was amazing throughout and even visited me to check things out, then arranged for a new pair to be delivered. Same issue. This went on until I reached, wait for it, the 5th pair and they ALL had the same problem...
As a pattern had formed, I decided to bow out and was given a full refund. It was heartbreaking.
It transpired that it was around this time that Quad ESL manufacture had moved to China. From what the OP is saying here, it looks like the glue issues persist to this day. In fact I know they do through conversation with someone who repairs Quads as a hobby. He is often doing rebuilds to overcome this issue, even on the latest pairs.
Prior to this purchase, I had owned a couple of pairs of 63s at various points. I loved them but this was the time in my audiophile career when I was curious about lots of speakers and I inevitably traded them for something.
Another audio dealer friend would generously allow me to take home his shop "retro display" pair of 57s every now and again. I absolutely loved them, even though they clearly needed some servicing.
Fast forward to moving to the States and, after many years of casually looking, about two years ago I located a very unspoiled 1978 pair of 57s and I pulled the trigger.
So far so good, and I have had the rectifiers rebuilt and also had the treble clamps fitted. Nothing comes close to them in terms of that core strength of Quads, the irresistible mid-range.
The 57s are definitely a forever speaker. I do have a cone driven pair of Thiels as my daily drivers, but the Quads come out every few weeks when I lust after more of their magic.
It’s horrible to read that people are still buying their dream speaker, at huge expense, only to be let down by the build issues. The solution is to get an expert repairer to strip them down and make them good. Personally I think Quad should paying for that each and every time for pairs that are still under warranty.
Not the revered company it once was. I highly recommend Ken Kessler’s book "Quad The Closest Approach" that reminds us of happier times at Huntingdon.
The newer Quads are still basically an ESL 63 with better cabinets and looks. My ESL 63’s were purchased from Electrostatic Solutions and are 7 years old now. Totally rebuilt with upgraded power supplies that took this speaker to another level, the power supply being the key. I added 2 small 8: subs crossover at 40 Hz, and all I can say I’ve heard speakers in the 15K and range that cannot touch the Quads, tone-wise, size, and placement, all cone speakers push sound at you, B3 organ sounds like notes not like the organ, same very piano, Vocals tight, but lacking real body and tone. Quads still rule, and they won’t cost you an arm and a leg. Buy a used pair send them to Kent at Electrostatic solution and you have a world-class speaker that will play as loud as is natural, not headbanging though. Quads may have some limitations but what they do well no muti-driver cone speaker can do it. I owned a lot of cone speakers and loved a few, Dynaudio Confidence 5’s come to mind. But very few I could live with long. Look at how many same brand speakers you see for sale over and over and over. Not Quads, you own them for life if you have the experience to enjoy what they do so well.
I presently am a "long term owner" of Soundlab Ultimate II's. I purchased them back in 1999. My Soundlabs have the "original panels" and I can say with utmost confidence that my speakers have kept me satisfied and never a moment have I ever considered another speaker! My original panels have "never" been back to Soundlab for any reason. I have covered my panels since the beginning of this odyssey with bed sheets when not in concert status. I do not know for sure but maybe this has helped to keep dust at bay and contributed to their longevity. They are never over driven . My amps are NAT Se2Se and the sound is to die for. Getting the components and cables up stream to your satisfaction will greatly pay big dividends not necessarily the most expensive or exotic products. Each listener has their biases I have mine. My Soundlabs have kept me away from the merry-go- round upgrade disease .... many many THANK YOUs to Dr. West for his creation. I don't visit here too much anymore it can keep me state of "what if" . My nirvana is here listening to my babies. Happy Listening....
My favorite of all speakers, over the years, was, without question, the Apogee Duetta Signatures. They require a bit of space and at 2 ohm, demand a great deal of good power, but when set up properly, they make the closest thing to a live performance, I’ve ever heard. Now that I no longer can handle the scope and volume of a live performance, for the many hours that I spend listening to music at home - I am much more interested in a speaker that will create a large, detailed, yet musical stage at more moderate levels. I can’t help but believe though, that either the Sanders or the Sound Labs would do an incredible job at that or full size orchestrate alike...Jim
I have been using since last 6-7 years, Electro Stat speakers from a company from India called Cadence Audio . I have their flagship model ARCA, which are hybrid type with 12’ woofers. With 91.5 dB sensitivity and 8 ohm avg., my 35 wpc tube amp drives them comfortably. I had upgraded the capacitors ( OIMP V-Caps) , Resistors ( Duelund CAST carbon ), internal wires, etc. I find them to be very precise and especially on mids and highs , they are terrific ! I thoroughly enjoy them and do’t think of going back to cones . I do’t think they have established dealers network in USA , so these ARCA from Cadence Audio may not be familiar in USA.
I’ve been an electrostatic guy for many, many years going back and forth with panels and conventional speakers over 35 years. Had the original ML CLX (had no bass but boy a midrange to cry over) and then Sequels and Sequel II. Just couldn’t get the bass/panels to integrate well. Then 20 some speaker later I bought the new Sound Lab Majestic 545’s (had them custom made in Birdseye Maple) was very excited but after 3 months and with many different amps just could not get them to sing. Roger West was kind enough to take them back. Boy I really wanted them to work. Went back to cones then about a year ago decided to try the Sanders 10e speakers. WOW! WOW! Yes amps make a huge difference and finally have settled on ones that make me forget about everything but the music. Maybe just maybe I’ve found audio nirvana at least I’m not looking or even dreaming any longer.
@jhills IMHE, they all require plenty of power. The older SLs require more than newer models. Some of the smaller Maggies, a bit less than the larger ones, but 3.x and larger need a pretty good push to get their best out of them. ESL63s were my first electrostatics too. They brought tears to my ears with small jazz, vocals and acoustic rock LPs, but on orchestras and prog rock I always felt like something was missing and I was listening to small speakers. For me, SLs provide so much more dynamics and weight without sacrificing the strengths of the Quads. I'd say the Sanders do similar. My friend, a Philadelphia Orchestra pro, told me that his Maggie 20.7s don't hold a candle to my 30yr. old A3s; I agree. Cheers, Spencer
One of my first loves in speakers was the Quad ESL63. I got a pr. back in about 1984 and had them for 20 years, until having to sell because of a down size in living space. They performed flawlessly for 20 years and were still going strong and sounding great when I sold them. A sad deal when Quad moved their manufacturing to China, their stats haven't been up to the same standards since. Recently mooving back in a larger space, I got a pr. of the Maggie 1.7s; much the same sound and character as the Quads, but do need a sub. I'm considering an upgrade to the larger Maggie 3.7s or possibly the Sound Labs. The Maggies, Sound Labs and Sanders are all great speakers, but the Sanders (more so than either the Maggies or Sound Labs) do require a good deal of power to drive. Best of luck.....Jim
I would agree. I have heard Sanders speakers at several audio shows and they are terrific. My only knock is that they lack the goosebump effect I get from my 57s. But they are using digital and I get my best sound from my 'table. But Roger Sanders system approach is fantastic. I have put it under serious consideration in the past.
++1 on Sanders ESLs. The model 10e is truly fantastic. They are "arc-proof" given their perfect insulation stators. Also, Roger Sanders and company are the best in terms of support. You will find only knowledgeable, reasonable and helpful folks at SSS. No "snake oil" products sold or recommended by them as well.
I own a pair of 2805's A knowledgeable friend told me they would last six years .. then poof!. Sadly almost six years to the month it happened. That notorious "clicking" that told me a Panel needed replacement. I decided I would purchase Harbeth 7 ES3 as a temporary replacement until my Quads get repaired. I hung on and on and never did fix up the Quads. The Harbeths are so good and seem to fit into my set up and room arrangement. They are so musical and I am enjoying them much more than the Quads. Alas I will not repair the Quads. Not worth the hassle.
Easy 3 part jazz bands sound very good solo female all singers sound very good rock for the serious man walk away or make sure you have 2 subs let's make sure you tell it like it is Eddie
I can whole-heartedly recommend Martin Logans. I've owned ReQuest, Arius i, Prodigy, and CLX. The early ReQuest, required occasional vacuuming of dust to keep quiet-squealing at bay and good HF extension. The Prodigy and CLX were and have been flawless and trouble free. The Prodigy from 2000 through 2010 and the CLX from 2010 on. (estimates). The Prodigy and CLX both benefit from a powered down, vacuuming every few months to maximize HF extension.
If Sound Labs are too big, then electrostatics aren't a fit. Unless someone is willing to live without low frequencies. You need plenty of surface area to get LF from electrostatics. IMHE, compromises to reduce size (usually hybrids using cone woofers) don't perform nearly as well.
About the muraudio, how long have they been around and how many have they sold? I'd be skeptical to spend large $ on something that if parts/service are ever required, you don't know if manuf. will be around. Check out a ten or twenty year old audio magazine. Half the advertisers don't exist anymore! It's a lot tougher getting your local random audio tech to repair an electrostatic than a tube amp. Cheers, Spencer
If they had glue issues it's likely that in time the other panels will also fail. One thing that often works is a Better Business Bureau complaint. Best Buys once damaged a phone when installing a Zagg screen protector. The store refused to do anything saying that I should use my insurance to pay for it. I looked up their ethics statement and using it, filed a complaint, they then came through. Hope things work out for you!
OP, I too am sorry for your troubles with the 2912's. I have a pair of 2905's that I bought used back in 2009, and the only problem I have had is with the protection circuitry that on occasion in the first year would interfere with normal operation, making them sound muffled. At the time I thought the panels were going bad, so I unplugged them and started searching for repair options. The owner of Quad, IAG, had no presence in the States at the time. Wayne Piquet (PK) and a couple of other places only dealt with ESL57, ESL63 and perhaps 988/989 repair., but I found this in the D.C. area, factory authorized at the time. I spoke to the owner and he sounded very competent:
However soon after that on a whim I tried the speakers out again, and straightaway the sound was great. Somehow the circuitry had reset; I have no other explanation. They have been fine ever since and I am careful with the volume knob.
BTW I have heard the Sanders Reference hybrids for a short while at my b-in-law's, and I thought they sounded excellent too.
davidclarke, before you take the plunge for S/L’s, Maggies, or M/L’s, if planners are your thing you owe it to yourself to audition a pair of MURAUDIO, Domain Omni PX1’s.
Don't be so quick to recommend Martin Logan these days. The high end and mids on my Requests began to disappear. I wrote to ML and they told me I needed to replace the panels at a cost of $1995/pair!!! . They said the panels start to loose it after about 15 years, something they never revealed in their literature. I have been a loyal ML customer for years, also have a pair of Quests and the Descent subwoofer. I realize the market isn't what it once was, but this is not a cost effective repair under any circumstance. Really disappointed.
Hi, guys. I have owned Quad ESL 63's can't tell you how many times I sent them back to the distributor for repairs. Then I bought Wayne Piquet 57 rebuilds and they have never failed. He lives about 100 miles from me in Florida, so I have had them upgraded and retuned a couple of times since then. I own a pair of 988's that have also failed panels. He says it is the Chinese glue that fails to hold the panels together. When all is working well, I still prefer the 57s, despite the limitations of range, image, etc. I have added Enigma Sopranino super tweeters and they have improved things. PK,s speakers play plenty loud and I have never blown them or tripped the protective circuit.
However, and this is a big one, PK is an eccentric dude with poor health habits who has had two heart attacks and is always late with stuff. He still has my 988s for repair and is several months late, but that being said, he is a guy with a tremendous heart and soul for what he does and would never screw anyone over. After all these years I consider him a friend who would never let me down, but I have know him for almost 15 years. His rebuilds are the best by far. A true master, but I fear for a meltdown. He's the best, but approach with caution. He has trouble with his website so call him direct would be the best approach.
I have never found a speaker to replace the sound of the 57s. If I were looking for a more mainline speaker, I would be looking at the Maggies.
You might try posing your problems at diyaudio.com under the planers and exotics forum. There are several very experienced Quad wizards there who may have some helpful suggestions for you. Good Luck!
BTW, my dream system of the sixties would have been Bozak Symphonies powered by a Mac 275.
I won't sell mine to anyone and have them go through the same loss as me. They will be used sparingly at lower volume levels. They have been replaced with Totem Element Metals.
Relationships between distributors and manufacturers are a funny thing
and have an often dark life of their own. If all your communication has
been through the distributor, perhaps talking directly with Quad would
be worth a shot vs. I'd hate to shell out more for repairs given the
circumstances. If you throw in the towel, besides Sanders, no
discussion of great electrostatics is complete without consideration of
Sound Labs. Sound quality exceeds everything I've come across and
support is excellent, even for thrifty guys like me who bought >25yr
old pair. Cheers, Spencer
+1 Recently (in the last4 years) the Sound Labs are not only a lot more reliable, but they are also a lot easier to drive (and as a result, sound better). IMO they are the SOTA of ESLs.
I hear you. MOFI had me ship the speakers to the only place in the USA that services them - it took them six months to fix them. When they returned to me they were dinged up, torn grill cloth AND one didn't work.
My fear is that I will get them working and they will fail again in a year. Perhaps I should give Magnapans a try they don't cost all that much. So sad, QUAD was one of those brands of my childhood that represented something very special. " The closest approach to the closest approach, to making me nuts"
For the moment I have all the $$ I can spend in the QUADS. I like them when they work! I am thinking of selling the QUADS after they are repaired and have been working for a while. Hopefully the new glue will hold on correctly.
Products that I have reviewed and had very good experiences with are Kings Audio Kingsound ESL and Sound Lab. I reviewed both for Dagogo.com and would recommend them based on use/performance. I have heard the Sanders hybrid ESL several times and it also is very good.
Unfortunately, QUAD is now part of an Asian conglomerate and not at all easy to communicate with. At this point I think there is only one bad panel. If this were a normal situation that would not be a big deal.
I have no problem fixing things myself - but these things are a total pain to replace a panel - lots of soldering. I am going to go look at Sound Labs web site.
@davidclarke, Relationships between distributors and manufacturers are a funny thing and have an often dark life of their own. If all your communication has been through the distributor, perhaps talking directly with Quad would be worth a shot vs. I'd hate to shell out more for repairs given the circumstances. If you throw in the towel, besides Sanders, no discussion of great electrostatics is complete without consideration of Sound Labs. Sound quality exceeds everything I've come across and support is excellent, even for thrifty guys like me who bought >25yr old pair. Cheers, Spencer
Another vote for the Sanders speakers. I believe he warranties them for life (his life...lol) but try and find someone who owns them and have a listen.
+1 on bdp24. Sanders have a good rep. Not sure when you bought yours but per the distributor there are only two Authorized repair people. One in NJ? and one in San Jose. The man in San Jose said his experience has been that the 2905/2805 have bad panels. $500 each to replace each panel plus shipping. Ouch. He says he has yet to see a 2912 in for repair. The glue seems to delaminate with time and then you get the unwanted noise. I have two friends with 2905s and both have the same issues you have. I learned why no retailers want to carry the line. They sound fantastic until they don't. Good luck.
I use 3 pairs of Quad 2905's, without trouble. I love them. I have also owned 57's and a pair of upper scale ML hybrids. To my ears, the 29 series is easily the best - although the 57's are just as musical, they are missing an octave top and bottom. Hybrids are problematic because the bass drivers are cones and the rest are ESL's, and that's a hard match to make. Seemingly. IMO.
I am just setting up to use the ML's for home theatre, where they should be standouts - but for my money, Quads are better for music because all frequencies are generated by the same technology. YMMV.
@stevecham, the word is, the Quad glue problems started after their production moved to China. For those who like to shoot the messenger, I’m not saying it’s true (or untrue, for that matter).
I have original Quads (57’s), but if I was going to spend $13,000 on new ESL’s, it would be Sanders or Music Reference I would buy. Both made in the U.S.A. by people who care.
I don't understand that at all. Here's why. Martin has been building high quality acoustic guitars for more than 100 years and they are held together with glue and yet one can bang away on them as hard as one wants to, under great tension, and they don't fall apart. I mean, what gives?
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