Forever turntable under $2000
In search of: forever turntable.
I'm currently looking to upgrade from my existing Pro-Ject RPM 1.3 to a table that I will (hopefully) never grow out of. I'm looking for something that is *technically* competent, something where I know the engineering is extremely solid and "timeless," and provides a good analog platform to swap carts with. My budget for this is $1600 with cart (but up to $2000 if there's a good case for it). The rest of my system is as follows:
* LSA 2.1 Statement speakers
* Schiit Gumby DAC
* Schiit Freya preamp
* Adcom GFA555 power amp
* Schiit Mani phono stage
So far, I have looked into the Rega P6 (or a used RP6), a Clearaudio Concept, a variety of Pro-Ject offerings, and a Michell Technodec... but at this level there are so many choices, its hard to know where to start. Any ideas? Thanks!
I'm currently looking to upgrade from my existing Pro-Ject RPM 1.3 to a table that I will (hopefully) never grow out of. I'm looking for something that is *technically* competent, something where I know the engineering is extremely solid and "timeless," and provides a good analog platform to swap carts with. My budget for this is $1600 with cart (but up to $2000 if there's a good case for it). The rest of my system is as follows:
* LSA 2.1 Statement speakers
* Schiit Gumby DAC
* Schiit Freya preamp
* Adcom GFA555 power amp
* Schiit Mani phono stage
So far, I have looked into the Rega P6 (or a used RP6), a Clearaudio Concept, a variety of Pro-Ject offerings, and a Michell Technodec... but at this level there are so many choices, its hard to know where to start. Any ideas? Thanks!
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The Technics spiel about the SL-1200GR is obviously written by someone who has little or no technical knowledge. “the SL-1200GR uses special silicon rubber that ensures both high vibration damping characteristics” everyone knows that silicon is a crystalline element that is as far from being compliant and vibration damping as trump is from truth. But wait, there’s more: “Sine waves stored in ROM are used for the control waveforms at constant speed, and this achieves smoother and more stable rotation” again, fiction flying in the face of fact. Sine waves can not be stored digitally and still faithfully resemble a clean waveform. The tried and true method of using a PLL regulated quartz oscillator is time proven to be both effective and accurate. Perhaps Panasonic should have had a technical writer produce their cut sheets instead. It would make them appear more credible than this tripe. |
For whatever it is worth, this is what Technics says on its website about what they did with their new $1700 model... "The SL-1200GR ensures high rigidity by using a body with a two-layered construction solidly unifying the BMC and the aluminium die-cast chassis. For the insulators supporting the body, as with the SL-1200G, the SL-1200GR uses special silicon rubber that ensures both high vibration damping characteristics and long-term reliability. Vibration in the horizontal direction is absorbed by reinforcement with cylindrical tubes using microcell polymers. While inheriting the technology of the SL-1200G, the insulators have had tuning performed specifically for the SL-1200GR. Also, the installation section of the insulators is equipped with a vertical adjustment mechanism using screws. This eliminates the rattle that occurs when the turntable is installed in a rack or the like, and prevents unwanted vibration. In addition, exact horizontal adjustment of the platter and record surface reduces rotation irregularity due to slanting, thereby enabling more stable record playing." https://www.technics.com/us/products/grand-class/direct-drive-turntable-system-sl-1200gr.html |
If history is anything to go by, you are left with Technics. Mine is closing in on 40 years with no maintenance except a few drops of oil around Christmas time (that is how I remember when the time has come again). Not going into technical discussions about these new ones and their "audiophile-worthiness", wouldn’t it be strange that a company with such a heritage comes back, decides to make something good, banks a lots of its image and credibility on it, advertises it as "audiophile" item, and then forgets to address something every hobbyist is obsessed with? I would bet that thoughts about different important aspects did cross their mind during the development stages. I am not sure how they dealt with them, but they are no fools. Maybe they even listened to prototypes? You can take a gamble and buy "new from the ground up" now, or wait 40 years to see if they are as reliable as the previous ones. (1200 G/GR, etc., maybe even new 1500) |
Seeing that you have a fair amount of Schiit Audio gear take a look at this for something to consider: https://youtu.be/3Ry_0okbbNo?t=699 Schiit is getting a new TT ready for this summer. Shown with the Mani phono stage. Would be in your price range. For something that is not in budget but worth a look is a new Linn LP12 Majik. Somewhat controversial, but the Majik as sold is exceptionally nice and would allow for direct updates if you would ever want to. Yes, it is outside budget but worth a listen. I'm working on my own LP12 project and while it may not be everyones cup of tea it sung to me so I jumped on board. |
The SL-1700mk2 semi-auto and it’s ‘1800’ manual and ‘1600’ fully auto models are the turntables that audiophiles want, due to the combined use of spring suspension, rubber feet and TNRC subchassis. The direct drive motor is the same unit as in the SL-1200mk2, as is the tonearm. The advantages of the SL-1700mk2 multi-approach to isolation is that no single method is completely effective by itself, but when combined, superior results are achieved. I’ve gone so far as to replace the simpler rubber feet on my SL-1700mk2 with the feet from the SL-1200mk2, which possess more robust damping, as they are essential the only measure of isolation on the 1200. As a result, my SL1700mk2 is exceptional in isolation of vibration. Technics has stubbornly stuck to the archaic and ineffective legacy SL-1200mk2 chassis design for one reason only: its main application is the high visibility rap-“DJ” target market, where ability to withstand severe abuse is valued over sound quality. Turning to the coreless motor, it does not have the lengthy track record of 40 years. This is why I said it is not the same proven commodity that the vintage design is. Now looking at audiophile interests, the SL-1200mk2 units available on the used market are almost always severely abused and heavily damaged from rap”DJ” use. This is much the same as why you would not want to buy a car that had been used as a taxi. On the other hand, the rap”DJ” market doesn’t like spring-suspended turntables for record scratching, so used spring suspended units will seldom be found in thrashed and trashed condition, making them better candidates for restoration for HiFi applications. |
Sleepwalker, besides the fact that every other bit of personal opinion you dispensed is debatable, name one good vintage DD with spring suspension, I can only think of Sony and the Pioneer Exclusive P3 Which has a very elaborate suspension and costs upwards of $6000 these days. The new SL1200s are in fact elaborately damped, both chassis and platter, unlike the originals. The coreless motor is a huge upgrade over the old models but is hardly experimental. |
The SL-1200mk2 that is so popular with rap-“DJs” is not the ideal turntable for people who want to listen to music. The major flaw is the chassis that gives zero isolation from vibration. This issue has not been addressed in any of the “new from the ground up” models such as the SL-1200GR. Otherwise, the motor, spindle and platter are second to none, and the arm is very good. For this reason, the SL-1200mk2 and up are not suitable for HiFi. The “new from the ground up” models are so radically different in motor and drive circuitry design that they need to be proven over several years of daily listening to see how they hold up. So, what is a good bet? In my humble opinion, vintage direct drive, quartz PLL regulated Japanese turntables with SME style tonearm and spring suspension. Your mileage may vary, depending on what condition the vintage turntables you find are in, your abilities to refurbish them, and of course availability of parts and things like service manuals. |
Second VPI's HW-19 suggestion. The Mk.2 version is different from the Mk.3 only in having a layer of steel rather than stainless steel bonded to the bottom of the MDF plinth. Replace the stock spring suspension with something better (SIMS Navcom Silencers are popular, as are Herbies Audio Labs Tenderfeet) for an upgrade. Perhaps the best used VPI value is the Aries 1, which is a mini-TNT without that table's suspension (use Townshend Audio Seismic Pods in place of the Aries' stock cone feet); an excellent platter and bearing (the exact same as found on the TNT-3/4), and a separate 16lb. motor pod. |
Check out the offerings from Esoteric Sound. They have interesting options and their website is informative from a slightly different point of view. Seems like they offer a good value. https://www.esotericsound.com/ |
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I'm looking for something that is *technically* competent, something where I know the engineering is extremely solid and "timeless," and provides a good analog platform to swap carts with. My budget for this is $1600 with cart (but up to $2000 if there's a good case for it). Definitely Direct Drive, and for this budget definitely new Technics SL1200GR (available in black or silver) for under $2000 with warranty, or slightly lower price on used market. This turntable will serve you for 30 years easily. For $2000 you can look for vintage japanese Direct Drive too. |
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The Technics SL-1200 GR or SL-1210 GR should fit the bill! https://overtureav.com/turntables-a-accessories/turntables/technics/dirDesc?keyword= |
Hard to go wrong with a Concept in that range. Ensure you get the fixed-bearing arm (Satisfy), though. The magnetic bearing "Concept" arms are way waaaay too sensitive to footfalls and heavy acoustic feedback, and will jump out of the groove when even slightly provoked. I think they were discontinued for this reason. You can start with just the Concept MM cart and upgrade later when budget allows. |
Hunt around for a Teres, something like this https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649452242-teres-255-baltic-birch-turntable-with-signature-motor-... The downside, they aren't made any more. But they are so well made mine has been zero problems in 15 years, their modular design means you can replace upgrade or fix a lot yourself, and Chris Brady is still around if you need him. Unlike most others the lion's share of the budget went into parts not profits so you will find it difficult if not impossible to get this kind of performance without spending a whole lot more. Mine is definitely a forever turntable. Definitely involves a lot more due diligence than what anyone else is likely to suggest, but you get out of it what you put into it, and then some. https://www.theanalogdept.com/c_miller.htm |