Good musical sub under $500

I need to replace my crappy old AudioSource sub, my listening room is 12'X14' x9', hardwood floors (livingroom, not sure if furniture such as couches effect subs in absorbing sound as it does with mids & tweeters) . It will be 70% music so a accurate tight bass is a must,. It will be matched up with my NAD T752 A/V and Paradigm Studio 20v3s up front. MY present Audiosource I've had for years has to be turned to full volume just to add some low-end (Crossed over at 80, anything higher and you get vocals and such coming out of it, really crappy as I said lol). I had ordered a Velodyne DLS-3750R earlier in the week(cancelled my order) the more I read up on them it seems they are rather boomy and velodyne's good subs are the higher end stuff which are out of my price range. Used is ok as long as it's from a reputable dealer or owner (ebay is definitely out, really don't trust high end stuff from there). Suggestions?
I respect Hsu Research's ability to make musical subs for very reasonable prices. I have a larger one, the VTF-3R Mark 2. The warranty is transferable if you buy used and the owner will transfer the warranty for you. The VTF-2 is nicely priced as well. Hsu has collaborated with Outlaw to make their subs. Many people like the SVS subs, but I have not heard them. I also have a REL 108Q which is a 12" by 12" very unobtrusive sub in a small room. It is also very "musical" and fills in the bottom below my Von Schweikert VR-1s. It will go to 30 Hz (-2 dB) and is only noticable when you turn it off. Otherwise, in a small room, you simply think your monitors are full range. Good luck.
To tell you the truth I never heard of the Onix Rocket UFW-10, but after some research the reviews were very very good, it's always mentioned they are "musical" which is exactly what I'm looking for. There was one review done which I cannot find now but the reviewer stacked it up against SVS, HSU and Velodyne and he was blown away by the Rocket UFW-10. But now I have heard of them and one is on the way :) and it's just the right size..
I found that review I was speaking of earlier, it wasn't SVS & Velodyne but reference is made to both in the review(my bad, the SVS didn't arrive in time for the comparison). This was done by a completely unbias person who is into more the HT end but also included music in the review, very interesting reading and LONG(9 pages long but includes interation from others in the forum).. He compared AperionS-12, RocketUFW-10, and HsuVTF-3/STF-1.

Also another review from Audioholics on this sub.

Thx Ozzy62 and Rysa4 for pointing this little guy out to me (it is smaller then my present sub and 5 times more powerful),, should be here early next week.
I just received my UFW-10 and love it. Very good for music and HT and looks great too. The forum at AV123 is very helful as well. Good luck.
I have recently heard the Martin Logan Grotto sub. It really seamlessly integrated with various speakers. There are a number of used Grottos in the market.
Just an update for anyone else interested in a UFW-10, the person I bought mine off had two (one I bought obviously) and the other he is selling now. He is moving up to the UFW-12, he's a great guy, a detective in NY state. The subs were only a year old and really weren't put into use until 6 months ago when he finished his HT setup.. It's a UFW-10 in Rosewood.

I got lucky and noticed he was thinking of doing this at another forum and e-mailed him asking if he was seriously interested in going that route and I would be very interested in buying one of his two.. he has pics, very nice, look to be 9/10 just because they are used.Just wanted to throw it our here for you guys, you've always been a great help to me and so informative!
I think that you will find Paradigm's own PDR10 or 12 to match very nicely with your Paradigm main speakers.
A used Mirage BPS-150i is another consideration. The specs: 2 x 8 inch, bipolar, acoustic suspension, 150watts, 600watts peak. I have two of them and mate well with my Energy Veritas 2.2, ie. the high gloss black and of course the tight music.
Sorry, no offence to anyone who owns them, but IMO Rockets = "mid-fi". (Their reference line is much better and more musical.) They will "do" for home theater but I sure wouldn't want 'em for serious music listening. The Rockets are not especially "musical" IMO.

Most of those rave reviews are from well meaning folks with little or no exposure to high end audio - people who are famililar with the kinda stuff you buy at CC or BB. They don't know enough to make meanigful comparisions and they mainly use Rockets in HT settings, so take the raves with a very several large grains of salt.

I suggest, if you will truly be using your system for 70% music, you stick with well-known "music" speaker manufacturers, preferably used e.g. REL. Otherwise you're not likely to get a "fast" and tuneful sub.

Another suggestion would be a used Alon Centris - very fast, tight and tuneful (and this one *is* musical). Probably $450 or less used.
No offense taken honestly, the Rocket UFW-10 maybe "mid-fi". Which is perfect for I feel I have what you call mid-fi equipment, hence the reason I can only afford a sub for $500 or under. True High-End listeners wouldn't set their glass on a $500 sub :). As for the reviews the one from "Goodsounds" which is not into "home theater" actually said the UFW-10 would be the perfect match for Magnepan MMG Ws which he states is hard for subs to do.I always considered Maggies as high end and out of my league $$ wise, albeit maggie owners on a budget(me again lol). I never heard Alon Centris subs but I'll take your word on them, doing a search I even see where they can be had for $300 new at CSA AUDIO, sure now you tell me about them as I sit here waiting for the UFW-10 to arrive LOL... either way I know I'll be happy, the UFW-10 should match very well with my "mid-fi" Paradigm Studio 20v3s, considering the piece of $%*! AudioSource sub I've been using LOL...
One question though Rackon, you sure your not confusing the Rocket UFW with the Rocket ULW?? it their lower sub, the UFW-10 and UFW-12 are their higher end subs..
Pmt 1209...this may be hard to believe...but the current B$W asw 600 sub($500) surpassed a HSU and a RAVA sub in my home demo...very musical...if you dont like the Rocket...check it is a sealed design...nice build...weighs 40 lbs....
I will thanks... and YES I believe it, I have a pair of B&W monitors I replaced 2 years ago with my present Paradigms but just can't part with them.. they're sitting in the basement covered and dry for I know someday I will use them again or hand them down to one of my kids.. they do make great speakers. Speakers are all personel preferece, to one person a pair may sound wonderful then to another not... Subs are the same way, it's all personel preference. I've been a drummer all my life and still play and I know what sound I like, we'll see with the rockets, I keep hearing they are tight and musical not boomy and earthshaking low to me that is not musical that's special effects.. we'll see when it arrives early next week. One thing I have noticed when the Rocket UFW-10 goes up for sale be it here or at their site they are gone within a couple hours.. I've been beat out of around 4 this past week alone and only got mine because I approached a fellow on their forum who mentioned in a thread he might move up to the UFW-12s..
Actually Rackons post is kinda funny. What happens here is that folks used to spending lots of money can't imagine anything that doesn't cost a great deal of money could possibly compete with what is perceived as higher end.

But with the Rocket UFW-10 comment as a sub, Rackons folly is exposed. Rackon- you are right about the rocket speakers being mid-fi, but this particular sub is a standout and easily is the most musical sub I have ever heard, including comparisons to REL and certainly martin Logan and Velodyne and a host of others. I have 5 audio systems in my house, been to the last two CES/THE shows, and have audtioned, GMA, Merlins, Silverline audio, ZU definition, Thiels,Mcintosh,Krell, Linn, Vandersteens, Dynaudio, B&W and just about everything else out there. I've been a musician for 30 years and am classically trained in music and have performed under world renowned conductors.

The UFW-10 sub by Rocket is the most musical sub I have heard. It is the standout product. You made a comment about a product you havent heard based on the rocket and reference speaker lines, which are not even close to being in the same league with the UFW-10 sub comparatively.

Its worse on the video comments on this forum- there was a thread about Runcos being better than all the other plasmas bacuse they put their own layer of glass on. Wow. Talk about ignorance. Runco charges more so they must be better.

Its great to get a hold of speakers that are wonderful and cost a great deal-- but folks like Rackon look pretty stupid when they start in with that arrogant hogwash about products they have never heard.

The only limitations the Rocket UWF-10 have are as follows; 1. With the best placement- they will not extend effectively below 24 HZ. 2. They cannot fill a very large room with sufficient SPL.- 6000 cubic ffet is out of the question. 2000 is within easy reach- 3200 is on the border.

I use two for HT and concert DVDs only and articulation and decay times are perfect reproductions of live music across all of the concert DVDs. The blend offers a nice integration with my mains and all of the walls shake rattle and roll in the HT setting.

Its best to stick to giving advice about something you actually know about. Rackon- you learning anything?
Rysa4's quote:
" I've been a musician for 30 years and am classically trained in music and have performed under world renowned conductors."
I am truely impressed.. that's wonderful!! I too was a bit disappointed in Rackon's comments but as he said I took it "with a very several large grains of salt" beside the fact they were not aimed at me, technically I don't even have a Rocket UFW-10 yet lol, but I am sure there were some who were offended.. Like you I as a musician (no where near in your league) feel I have a pretty good sense of what music "should" sound like. Along with that I would never bash any product unless it was absolutely a given (say comparing Altec Lansing PC sub to a Hsu VTF-2). As I said earlier everyone has their own preferences, I like the sound of Ludwig Classics others like the sound of Pearl References, is one better then the other absolutely not. I always treat this forum as a constructive site not a destructive one and always will...
Pmt1209...I have been using a UFW-10 for over a year (got one used on agon before they became so popular) in a room approximately the size of yours, with a pair of VonSchweikert VR-1s. FWIW, I have been a bass player, and am somewhat sensitive to how low frequency gets reproduced in home systems. I agree entirely with Rysa4's opinion of this sub. I think you made a good choice, and you should enjoy your purchase.
Ajn22 it's funny you should mention the VR-1s I came sooo close to pulling the trigger on a pair of them when I bought the Paradigm Studios, the reviews for them were just incredible but I couldn't track down any dealers remotely close to me to give them a listen and still just on reviews by mags and owners I almost ordered them sight unseen but decided $1000 was just too much $$ to take that chance.. I bet they are as good as they say huh?? Even to give the Paradigms a listen I had to drive an hour and a half to find a dealer. Sadly Best Buy and Circuit City put all our local mid to hi fi dealers out of business. Thanks for the reassurance on the UFW-10, If the UFW-10 works with your VR-1s they should be a good fit for my Studio 20v3s.. Who would know more about a good tight musical low end then a bass player :) What amp/receiver are you using with them if I may ask?
you might want to consider a kit ,,,i just assembled a kit sold by parts a cost of 356 including shipping....took about an hour to assemble...has a solid plate amp and a dayton titanic 111 heavy sucker 60+ pounds...small footprint 14 sq...using in a small kiss- of- death square room...have tried fullrange and have had nightmare with the standing waves so i finally bought a pair of von scheikert vr 1 and am driving them with a modified shanling integrated and running them full range with the sub located in a corner and finally got rid of standing wave...sub is very quick and musical....hard beat it for less than 400-am considering buying another and running 2 channels
I was going to start my own thread, but I think mine fits nicely in this one:

Basically, I wanted to see if anyone had any recommendations for a good, smallish musical sub around $500 (not necessarily under) to pair with my KEF Reference 1's. I noticed that folks like the Onix, but haven't seen any reccs on HSU or SVS.

I have been using a Paradigm PW2200, which sounded great, but was far too big for the rooms in which I used it. Also, I move a lot and I have had enough of moving it. Oh, and it recently stopped working, so I'm done with it.

Anyway, I was hoping someone could recommend a good match for the KEF's. Alternatively, I would love to hear reccs on speakers that could match the KEFs paired with a sub.

If helps at all, my system is:
KEF Ref 1
Karan Acoutics i180 Integrated Amp
Marantz DR 700 CD

Thanks and, if anyone objects, I'll move this to a new thread. - M.
I bought a pair of Entec SW-5 subs (servo controlled) here on Audiogon for $700. Entec went out of business some time ago, but their subs were (and still are) very highly regarded. There were considered one of the few subs that were fast enough to integrate well with electrostatic and planar magnetic main speakers. I can tell you that they are very musical, and probably much better than anything you can certainly buy new for that price. They probably wouldn't make great HT subs, as there power handling isn't high enough for high excursion movements such as earthquakes and cannons, but for music they are fantastic. Although they don't come up all that often, you might be able to find a single for within your price range.
Hi: Can anyone answer a question for me? I own a NAD T752 and live close NAD/ Lenbrook in Pickering ON CAN.Where I Purchased it. It is only 1& half yrs old warr till Sept(old factory stoc) they did a firmware & software upgrade and installed aquiet fan. I am just now trying to hook up the two sub outs, after Doing a reset, and usig on screen display to set levels dicreetly so there should be output to the subs but no luck all other speakers work well.

Please give advice, JM.
If you can find a demo, or squeeze another $100, try the Martin Logan Dynamo. I have one for my computer system and its lovely. Blends very well with my B&W M1s.