I have a circuit in my listening room for my amplifiers and it uses a dedicated ground. Right now I have two duplex outlets connected - and I use the primary outlet (first on the run) for the amps (reserve secondary for subwoofers if needed). I would like to install better quality outlets for this - two duplex, set up for a dedicated ground. I could see spending $100-$200 per duplex, if that gets me something decent. I want it to grip the plugs well. Recommendations?
I’ve found that at least half of the issues with plug grip is the plug. A high quality hospital grade plug can really improve this. I’ve had very good luck with Leviton, and additionally, the 90 degree versions can really help you reclaim some floor space.
Have any of you guys installed outlets with the ground at the top (upside down) instead of the standard way? Seems this would aid in keeping the plug in.
@erik_squires Are you saying that the issue is the plug rather than the receptacle? I've got good power cords (e.g. Shunyata Alpha) and they are not tightly gripped. Thanks.
I used hospital grade outlets when I first installed my direct lines. Then as an experiment to see if it made a difference I swapped one for a Furutech GTX-D NCF(R) Ultimate Nano-Crystal Rhodium-Plated AC Duplex Receptacle. Once I heard the difference, I immediately ordered another one for my other direct line. I found them to be a very worthwhile investment.
Spending hundreds of dollars on a commoditized product one can buy for $2 at HD is a ridiculous concept but I did it anyway. I bot the AQ Edison receptacle expecting some improvement but that wasn't the case. I didn't spend too much time testing it. For $200, I'll assume it works and does its intended job.
Anyway, where it was undeniably beneficial was in the high-tension grip. It's quite impressive. I have a heavy AQ Hurricane cord plugged directly into the wall. The cord rests on the floor but tugs down and away from the wall. Still the cord's plug itself is really secure. The receptacle also has some nice weight and a lot of shiny metal contacts. It feels premium.
BTW, the ground pin is up in my installation. I'm not sure whether that matters. I read that hospitals use this orientation for obvious reasons.
I tried some generic hospital grade receptacle before the Edison but found the grip was insufficient to support the cord. If you want grip, the AQ is it. You can be the judge whether sound is improved.
Same guts and body as the HBL8300 Hospital Grade outlet without the green dot, the beefed up ground contact, and nickel plated contacts and back strap. Higher price too.
Down side of the HBL8300? Nickel plating every were for corrosion protection. Nickel can add grain to the sound of an audio system.
@jea48That's the word I was looking for. "Isolated Ground". Thank you! Can any/all of the recommendations above be wired as isolated ground? I think this is the case if one uses a plastic box for the outlets, or uses plastic washers and screws to attach to a metal box. Agreed???
@ghdprentice Does this have lugs on both sides, so I can connect through it to a second duplex? I was thinking I'd get a Furutech for my amps and a lesser unit for the subs.
I have worked in dozens of hospitals over five decades and have never seen upside down plugs with the ground pin on top. That includes in operating rooms where a spark, especially back in the day, could be disastrous.
@howardlee the ground on top makes more sense to me, because if something was to fall such as a paper clip onto a plug that isn’t plugged in all the way it could definitely cause a spark if it came in contact with the hot and neutral.
I saw the ground on top in an industrial facility I was working at in North Carlolina for a couple of weeks. I asked around and nobody knew why. Otherwise, I see it on the bottom.
Are you saying that the issue is the plug rather than the receptacle? I’ve got good power cords (e.g. Shunyata Alpha) and they are not tightly gripped. Thanks.
@peter_s- Not exactly, but maybe it’s 60% plug, 40% outlet? I guess it depends how poor your plugs are to start with but for me the hospital grade 90 degree plug is what really made the difference. Also, I’ve found 90 degree plugs have less leverage so they tend to cause less wiggle when using heavy power cables. I’d say hospital grade plugs are relatively cheap. Get one and try it before committing.
It looks like the furutech cannot be daisychained. I see strapping for a ground lug only on one side. So I’m looking for a good outlet that can be daisychained as I have two duplexes in the same box.
I saw the ground on top in an industrial facility I was working at in North Carlolina for a couple of weeks. I asked around and nobody knew why. Otherwise, I see it on the bottom.
@carlsbad2- From my reading long ago the issue may have to do with safety and the use of metal or plastic outlet covers. Plastic covers/plates can go any way but the convention is ground on the bottom.
The issue with metal covers is the possibility of them slipping off over time while a plug is still attached. If the ground is on the top is is less likely to cause a short. In this case when the cover slips it will HOPEFULLY encounter the ground pin first and stop. However if the H and N pins are on the top when the face plate falls off AND there is a plug there it could start some bad but intermittent shorts leading to fires.
I remember seeing a picture of this. The metal cover had 2 slots burned into it (looked like a saw kerf) where it had made contact with a plug and the shorts has burned away the plate. For whatever reason the shorts were not solid enough to actually trip the breaker, and who knows how long that plate had burned without being discovered.
In cases when there is a metal cover and the plug is horizontal neutral should be on top if possible.
Of course in a perfect world the plates never get jostled, the center screws never come loose and this is never a problem. I just installed an outlet under a sink and while it’s tight now who knows what 10 years of using that space for storage will do. This is even worse in an industrial setting.
I’m not actually an electrician, but in all my DIY electrical and home mechanical work there’s no flimsier screw than the little one in the center of an outlet that holds the plate on, and no piece of equipment gets more wear than an outlet cover. That’s why so many apartment outlets don’t even have covers or you’ll find them broken or loose. They get a lot more wear and tear than you’d think.
Also, for the home, stick to plastic outlet covers unless you know there’s high traffic/high movement. Your home audio gear is not going to be served by metal there.
The code is silent on the ground up ground down. Back in the knob and tube days there was a requirement that the neutral be on the left leading to the ground pin down. Today either is correct
Beyond the actual grip, because the cheaper brass hospital plugs do this with stronger springs and more metal, there is the issue of damaging the outer layers of metal on the plug on your expensive cable. In theory this would deteriorate the performance.
That is what is wonderful with the Furutech GTX in that its clamping system does not marr the plug end. And it sounds wonderful too.
BTW, from experience, I’m completely against the use of rhodium plated anything in audio for two reasons: It’s not a very good conductor and it’s too hard. I’ve used rhodium plated items in everything from RCA plugs to AC.
You’d think hard was good, but when you have two hard metal objects coming into contact with each other they fail to grip very well at all. It’s bad in speaker terminals (though nickel in this case is also bad) and it makes AC plugs far too slippery.
Copper, brass, gold, silver however deform in all the right ways (they squish together) and prevent speaker terminals from becoming unscrewed and keep plugs in their sockets.
No matter what arguments they may make for audio grade outlets you’ll never convince me rhodium belongs anywhere but on jewelry. I'll take an affordable hospital grade plug and outlet over any jewel like plugs all day long.
Another vote here for the Furutech GTX-D NCF(R) outlets. I found very favorable sonic improvement of this outlet over a few other audiophile grade outlets.
Regarding the ability to daisy chain from one Furutech to another, there are two sets of lugs to wire to on each unit. A better way to extend to a second outlet would be to pigtail separate leads to each outlet in the same box, or to extend the circuit to a separate box. This way a loose connection does not affect downstream outlets. Just did this on 1000’ of romex for four separate circuits and 22 outlets in my basement at the recommendation of my electrician. If there is a problem with a loose connection for an outlet it will be at the outlet instead of the possibility of an upstream connection.
Admittedly, the Furutech outlet doesn’t have the tightest connection. But the sonic improvement easily offsets that.
I met Caelin Gabriel (principal at Shunyata) at AXPONA several years ago during a slow time, and we talked for quite a while. When outlets came up he told me the following tips:
Hospital grade outlets are not appropriate for audio because they are designed to withstand corrosion from the harsh cleaning chemicals in a medical facility. That means the the female connectors in the receptacle are made of stainless steel which does not conduct electricity as well as copper. There is no reason to have corrosian resistant sockets in your home.
Caelin said that the best commonly available receptacle for home use is the Hubbel 5362. These come in 15 and 20 amp versions and are better made than typical outlets from Home Depot. They are all copper and are heavier duty than a typical outlet. They are under $15 each on Amazon.
I have just built a house with a dedicated listening room (we are just about ready to move in) and I used 3 dedicated 20 amp circuits for the audio room with one fo them using 10 gauge wire (the other 2 use standard 12 gauge). The 10 gauge circuit will be dedicated to my Krell KSA 300S amp which draws a huge amount of power. I'm using Hubbel receptacles for each circuit.
The best method? Don't use a plug. Hardwire in a sealed box. Cheapest and by far the best. You could simply cut off the ends, strip the wires and solder/connect them together in a sealed box. Then you don't have to pay a rediculious amount for a more 'snug' fitting hospital outlet. Of course the outlet can easily be reinstalled with a plug outlet at any time.
@pinball101 Wouldnt I get a better connection, at least to the first outlet, by going directly into the outlet rather than creating a pigtail in the box? That’s what I was thinking and why I would Daisy chain. Because the most important outlet will be the first one where the two amplifiers are set also, this quad installation is the end of a circuit… So I’m not too worried about other outlets further downstream.
I’m glad to see that I can Daisy chain. In order to isolate the ground, however, would I break off the tab that wraps around one side of the unit to the ground lug? I think I have a metal box… Because the cable is armored and therefore the metal box and armored cable all provide shielding together.
Hubbel 5362. These come in 15 and 20 amp versions and are better made than typical outlets from Home Depot. They are all copper and are heavier duty than a typical outlet. They are under $15 each on Amazon.
They are not copper, they nickel plated brass. Of course brass is half copper.
In order to isolate the ground, however, would I break off the tab that wraps around one side of the unit to the ground lug?
But why the priority for isolated grounds? Why not use Puritan groundmaster instead. Shunyata or nordost have their grounding systems also for much more money.
I confirmation of others before me, the Furutech GTX-D NCF(R) Ultimate Nano-Crystal Rhodium-Plated AC Duplex Receptacle produced an audible difference.
In reviewing your system, I do not see power conditioning listed. I recognize your post focuses on outlet recommendations, but consider a power conditioner within your means from Shunyata or Audience. Well kept preowned is good. IMHO, more of an improvement across the board than an outlet.
@pinball101 Wouldnt I get a better connection, at least to the first outlet, by going directly into the outlet rather than creating a pigtail in the box? That’s what I was thinking and why I would Daisy chain. Because the most important outlet will be the first one where the two amplifiers are set also, this quad installation is the end of a circuit… So I’m not too worried about other outlets further downstream.
I can't speak to the benefits of direct connection vs the pigtails in line with the connection. But based on your configuration being at the end of the circuit, I would not bother with the pigtails either.
I'm not familiar with the isolated grounding you are referencing so I can't speak to that either.
@peter_s I hear you… But I would also have to construct my own cables in that case. I’m using power cables that have plugs on them.
Your attempting to improve the 'weak link' which is the connection of the PLUG its self.
None of these connection changes will give you more power/high voltage or cleaner electricity or less noise. The only reason for upgraded outlets is for reliability concerns.
Whether ANY of the solutions will give you an audible improvement is doubtful but if you want the absolute best, most reliable connection available eliminate the plug altogether.
There is nothing in NEC code that says the ground has to be installed up or down. The AHJ (Authority having Jurisdiction) in a state can require it to be up or down. In new construction the electrical section in the spec book can require the grounds to be up or down. A hospital project manager can just say one day I want them up.
For years the majority of outlets installed in my area in Hospitals and Healthcare Facilities were down.
The paper clip one was used for the reason in hospitals and healthcare facilities in my area. Story goes, a desk against a wall. Outlet below desk. A paper clip is knocked off from the back of the desk. A cord and plug is not tightly plugged all the way into the outlet. Paper clip falls and lands across the Hot and Neutral blades of the plug. Result, fireworks... What are the odds???
@erik_squiresexplanation is more the reasoning for the ground up. The stainless steel plate falls off and lands, in most cases, on the plug body and that's where it sets until,... But sometimes if the plug is out a little bit it hits the plug blades. Fireworks!!! Breaker trips right? Not always.
As for the 6/32 trim screw that holds on the plate working loose ??? Well the problem, it was not tight. Not even snug. Whose to blame? The Painter.
The painter? The painter pulls the plates and is responsible to put them back on.
To be clear, there’s nothing good about an outlet plate, especially a metal one coming loose and at best putting the ground up or down is a prayer to the angels at best.
The specialized sockets in a hospital have red plates. The pos- and neg- blades on equipment plugs are usually thicker than what you usually see and broad, so the fit is tight. I've never seen one of those things get loose. This is making me think maybe I should rework what I have my setup plugged into, because the fit is not always that good.
@jea48That’s the word I was looking for. "Isolated Ground". Thank you! Can any/all of the recommendations above be wired as isolated ground? I think this is the case if one uses a plastic box for the outlets, or uses plastic washers and screws to attach to a metal box. Agreed???
Isolated ground? Therein an insulated green wire, Equipment Grounding Conductor, EGC, that is used for the safety equipment ground contact on an IG, (Isolated Ground) type receptacle. The green insulated, isolated, EGC is ran in the same raceway or cable as the branch circuit wiring current carrying conductors to the electrical panel the branch circuit is fed from? Is that what you mean?
Note the IG EGC green color ground screw and contacts are insulated, isolated, from the supporting back strap and the center 6/32 threaded hub on the front of the outlet that holds on the wall cover plate.
What is the branch circuit wiring ran in? Conduit? Or a Cable like Romex?
@jea48 Thanks for your attention. Yes, as you described, there is a green insulated wire included in the run. I will need to open things up to see if there is also a bare copper wire for grounding the box and to confirm that the box is metal... but I know we used an armored cable running on the outside of the wall to get this additional dedicated circuit to my amps, and so the armor on the cable acts as further shielding/ground, but is not the same as the green wire (isolated) ground.
When I bought the house, the home grounding went to a water pipe, but the electrician added a outdoor rod. Unfortunately, I am convinced that the rod is sunk just in loose sandy soils rather than moist clayey soils, and I may look into relocating it to something with better grounding properties.
I appreciate your input - feel free to offer more. If I buy the Furutech and want to maintain the isolated ground, I would need to snap off the metal strap that connects the ground lug to the mounting plate. I assume this is doable???
Yes, as you described, there is a green insulated wire included in the run. I will need to open things up to see if there is also a bare copper wire for grounding the box and to confirm that the box is metal... but I know we used an armored cable running on the outside of the wall to get this additional dedicated circuit to my amps, and so the armor on the cable acts as further shielding/ground, but is not the same as the green wire (isolated) ground.
ya, that would be a good idea. Saves a lot of guess work what the electrician used.
Don't forget to turn off the breaker. Verify the circuit is dead.
While looking inside the outlet box look for two green insulated ground wires.
Write down the number of, and colors of, all the wires in the armor cable.
Are you sure the duplex outlet(s) are IG grounding type? They are orange in color or have an orange triangle on the face plate? Like this one for example.
I assume your house is wood framing. Why did you go with IG outlets and IG ground. What did the electrician say about it? Or was it his suggestion?
I'm glad you didn't say the IG ground wire connects to a dedicated ground rod. That's usually the cause.
FWIW not that many IG outlets are installed these days. They really are only used in commercial and industrial facilities. They where big in the 1970s, 1980s, and into the 1990s but really dropped off in the 2000s.
Hi Peter, I use a pair of PS Audio PowerPort Classics. They have a fantastic grip on heavy power cords. I haven't worried about connections since I installed them in 2007. It looks like PS Audio stopped making them, but I see them for sale on HiFi Heaven website. The price is reasonable at $50 each. The Furutech GTX-D NCF(R) are quite pricey at $281 each. I hopes this helps.
This armored cable is apparently MC cable. Manufacture calls it Metal Clad. Must be new. I have never seen MC cable with a bare aluminum ground wire. Junk for feeding audio equipment, imo.
I doubt very much that’s what you have. No way that could be considered as an IG conductor.
I use a pair of PS Audio PowerPort Classics. They have a fantastic grip on heavy power cords. I haven't worried about connections since I installed them in 2007. It looks like PS Audio stopped making them, but I see them for sale on HiFi Heaven website. The price is reasonable at $50 each.
The ones you installed in 2007 were made by Hubbell. The real deal... I have no idea who makes the ones shown in the HiFi Heaven Website. Not Hubbell though, imo.
I use Shunyata Z-1 cryoed outlets. They grip tight and were around $100 each when I purchased them. All the wall outlets in my living room are by Shunyata and I use 2 dedicated 20 amp lines for the system. All my power conditioners and power cords with one exception (Acrolink for the Esoteric player) use Various Shunyata cords.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
True story.