Guidance

Thanks @tomcarr ​​​​@dayglow 

this is a great hobby!

Thanks @deep_333 

Thanks @zlone ... I'd say 95% of my music is digital through Qobuz, 5% is analog primarily because there have been situations when I put a record and start listening and all of a sudden I need to go break a fight (its a lot of fun with 3 teenagers) and before you know your nice cartridge is scratching middle of the vinyl :) 

@lak @hilde45 thank you both too ... gives me some direction to focus on as opposed to losing my mind over small tweaks which might end up being not that impactful

First get the AC power as clean/stable and quiet as possible. Then work on room acoustics and finally vibration control/better audio rack etc. Now you will be able to better evaluate the synergy of your system and find/correct the weakest link. I realize for many these steps are not the "fun" part of HEA  but they are a necessity if you want to take this hobby on a serious level.

My room is small too. 14x15, 8' ceiling.

First thing was acoustic treatments.  Next was  I figured out the best spots for the speakers and the listening seat.

Then I added a pair of active subs to join my B&W 803 D3 speakers.

That was revelatory. Deep, tight, clean bass. Also seemed to enlarge the soundstage. Biggest improvement from  a gear change. But the room and the setup will dictate most of what you will hear. 

Get the room right and get the setup right before any gear changes.

I am of the mindset that I should overinvest now (even though in very very small steps) to make sure that changes I make would pay dividends long term, and I can eventually get to a system I'd enjoy for a long while.

Good deal. I am saying what I did because I spent too much on speakers with Be tweeters that turned out to be too bright -- not at the beginning, when my room sucked, but later after I got my room in better shape. In other words, good gear then didn't turn out to be good gear later. And I wasted a lot of time shopping and spending and then selling those speakers (and some other gear, too.).

@samiamsam If possible have one of two dedicated AC circuit breakers added for your audio AC needs along with upgraded AC receptacles. If that is not doable then at least upgrade your AC outlets vs standard outlets that you might be currently using. A power conditioner is a possibility if you can't go the route of dedicated circuits however I would suggest you work on your room acoustics first.

You did not mention how much digital vs analog you listen to, but an upgrade from the Bluesound to separate streamer and DAC would make a considerable difference if digital is your thing. 

@hilde45 thanks again for the feedback, great advice for a newbie.

I completely understand that the process is going to be iterative, and as best as I can, I would like to avoid swapping stuff out just for the sake of it. I am of the mindset that I should overinvest now (even though in very very small steps) to make sure that changes I make would pay dividends long term, and I can eventually get to a system I'd enjoy for a long while.

And with that in mind, I like your suggestion around acoustics and room dynamics and letting that be the first domino to fall.  

Dyne audio lifestyle speaker designed for WAF (undersized cabinet, lackluster drivers, etc) isn’t the right speaker to address such deficiencies.

You could sell it and get

mofi 888 + rythmik f12g subwoofer

or

tekton epic 15 + tekton cinema sub (on the cheap)

If you have bigger pockets, there are other options as well.

But, before you sell or buy anything...fix your room (issues that contribute to thin weightless sound)

when you measure things, you will notice some dips/nulls in the 100 to 300hz range. Put 5 inch thick absorption panels (gik 244, for example) on ceiling right above you and to walls on either side of you, for starters. If you are set up on the long wall, you could either move your seat back/forth out of a lengthwise null a bit..or put thick absorption on wall behind you (not all over the place and suck the life out of your room, but, only behind, to either side and on ceiling... it is very simple physics pertaining to standing wave nullification). i would suggest acoustic fields acda because it is fine tuned for rate of absorption n all, get down to 30ish hz..., but, many of you guys would rather spend on cables than treatment. So, some cheap gik could also work, sorta.

A subwoofer can also be used to fix nulls at freq ranges within its range of operation, not above its range, hope that helps.

i feel like my system sounds pretty good and I personally get multiple hours of listening from my system (almost daily)but I feel like I am missing some weight in mid frequencies and the sound can seem thin now and then.

@hilde45 + 1

I agree that my room is less than ideal (but with three middle school kids, I have what I have  :)) . I have walls on north and east side, with west side with three large bay windows and south side with a set of French doors. I did put in sound dampening on the north side wall which has helped remove some of the sloppiness in the sound. I was infact researching and probably will call a local acoustic company for some consultation and see if they can help me in making my listening room non reflective, which I know for a fact would definitely help

This is great information and I totally sympathize with the constraints of family. If I were to ask you a brutally honest question (constructively, amiably) it would be this: Given that many of the changes you make will not be truly understood until your room is accounted for, acoustically, are you actually just interested in trying gear out for the pleasure of it? Nothing wrong with that, but just as one does not eat a candy bar while telling themselves it is nutritious, no one should fool themselves with changing gear and thinking they're making a significant improvement if their room is really not acoustically solid. 

Put another way, if you plan to make your room better, acoustically, if you do it later then some of the changes you make now may not be correct later. That's why it's good to understand your own plans and motivations. And hey, maybe if you measure your room now, you might see it's not so bad, acoustically. Knowing that would clear the way to more gear swapping with significant and real impacts.

@lak I had not thought about changing / upgrading the ac circuit, but while making smaller improvements I did upgrade all the power cables, which did make a lot of improvement to the sound stage. I was also wondering if adding a power conditioner might be a good option. I know that sound quality / sound stage improvement is going to be marginal and incremental, to some degree its the chase of the perfect sound which makes the hobby so enjoyable.

@ghdprentice thanks to you, I would make time to experience Houston symphony, its a good thing that we have lots of opportunities in our city. Its hard to go to live events to enjoy a hobby when no one else in the house likes your taste in music ... lol   

Morning All, thanks for continuing to educate me ... couple of points:

1) I put in the GAIAs since my wife was complaining about the artwork in the adjacent room shaking, and I  had to remove the floor vibration, it had definitely helped and I dont think it'll be a good idea to remove (to keep the wife off of my back) :)

2) I agree that my room is less than ideal (but with three middle school kids, I have what I have  :)) . I have walls on north and east side, with west side with three large bay windows and south side with a set of French doors. I did put in sound dampening on the north side wall which has helped remove some of the sloppiness in the sound. I was infact researching and probably will call a local acoustic company for some consultation and see if they can help me in making my listening room non reflective, which I know for a fact would definitely help

3) I had not thought about the speaker cable since they did cost me a pretty penny , but I can give that a try too

4) On the recommendation around the sound characteristics I am after, 90% of the music I listen to is classical (non operatic), blues, jazz, strong vocals. But every now and then when my girls join me in the listening room, we listen to a little Taylor Swift :). I am really after a typical class A / tube like warm sound which I have heard from a few class A/B amps that have a class A lean

The room is 50% of the sound. How well do you understand your room's contribution to what you're hearing? If you answer "not very well" then you should stop researching gear immediately and start looking into your room. It's really that simple.

I would try removing the Gaia feet from under the speakers and replacing them with spikes. This may couple the speakers to the floor better, which may give you a greater sense of weight. Maybe not. In my experience, how you couple to the floor makes a difference. But it is not predictable. I find that the “isolation” footers tend to clean up the sound, which is fine if you’re looking for more defined bass, but sometimes that’s not what you really want. Try it. It’s free. 

You say nothing about room acoustics and/or power supply. Are you able to have a dedicated AC circuit and upgraded AC receptacle? That can improve the sound of your current system and assist in any upgrade of equipment you might make in the future.

 Maybe try a different speaker cable...?

@samiamsam Don't worry about too much bass. High quality subs like REL are for sound reinforcement and not just gobs of bass. Please go for a pair as it will enhance soundstaging and balance. 

There is not end to the improvements you can make. They can be in small increments or big jumps. But it isn’t as simple as plunking money down. You have to have some knowledge of where you want to go and key variables in the components and system.

I recommend reading The Complete Guide to High End Audio by Robert Harley. That will help you with overall concepts and terminology.

Then seek out acoustic music events. I spent a lot of time listening to jazz in small venues and over ten years with season tickets seventh row center. This showed me what real music sounds like. Otherwise you can go off chasing detail and bass and easily loose the magic / music from your system... like fat and salt of junk food instead of deeply fulfilling foods.

Listening to acoustic venues is required because rock and other music is created electronically, mixed electronically in unknown venues... so there is no way to know what it should sound like. When live, it is being reproduced through all sorts of electronics and speakers.... too many variables. 

Thank you … I can give that a try and see if that solves the conundrum.
 

Also for perspective my listening room is 12 f x 18 f and I’ve been hesitant to add a sub thinking sub in such a small room would end up being an overkill. 

My first thought also. Although my system is relatively lo-fi, My KEF R3 Metas sound glorious when assisted by a pair of HSU subs. Even when you don't subjectively hear them, the music sounds fuller and more complete. When there is significant bass in the music, it will hit you in the chest and put a big smile on your face.

Add a pair of REL subwoofers.