Help power pair of Infinity Kappa 9's please

Jtiesel2,
Do the surrounds actually have holes in them or are they just becoming weak?
I've posted it on Audiogon before. If you have some old latex paint sitting around, open it being careful not to shake it at all. The latex and pigment will be seperated. Several small coats of latex will bring those surrounds back fairly well as long as there are no holes to deal with. Make sure that you use only the clear latex that typically seperates itself from the pigment. I've done this at least 100 times. It works very well. Also,
There are a couple of old threads on audiogon where people had success with Kappa 9's. Here you go:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1184547409&read&keyw&zzinfinity

Oh man! They were totally fubar!! I spent a few hours learning and fixing them though, it was a fun learning experience. I think it went well they look great!
At least 100 times? You do this for a living?? Thanks for the link!

Hi Jtiesel2,
I ran SpeakerCraft/Marcof electronics, back in the early 80's. I had my own Stereo Store a few years in the late 80's,early 90's in St. Louis called Sounds Right. I've been a manufacter's rep for high end audio and 12v. I've built and repaired more speakers than I care to mention. I'm glad that it worked out for you. Tim

Your amps are here.Krell kma 160,4250 ask price and mint,good luck,Bob

I was going to recommend an Aragon 4004 mkII.Those amps were even used in Discos(abused would be more accurate),but after reading the posts,I thought I better not.I just ran into this article.I'm familiar with the Apogee's amp blowing reputation. This article gives an idea of some amps that ought to be able to drive them. Link..[http://www.apogeespeakers.com/scintilla.htm]

Hifihvn,
Nice article, this as good as advice as one could give knowing the difficult load of the Kappa's. These are all nice sounding amps and some are even affordable.

how about some of the wyredforsound stuff

Class D & some say it sounds great. I talked tote them a while ago about how to power my kappa 8.1's & also a pair of 18in subs I was thinking of building & they stated they sell their amp for pro audio stuff to power sub's

I have been wanting to try a pair of 9.1's however my present amps aren't enough for my 8.1's so I need to wait. I started with a Adcom GFA-5500 & after getting married I switched to my now wife's amps, parasound HCA-1500a's. They sound a LOT better then my Adcom ever did especially when I bi-amp the speakers but I do not have enough amps due to needing them for the HT setup. So I think I will try the larger of the wyredforsound amps, probably try a multichannel amp so I can do 500x7 but due to money reasons, start 500x2. Then hopefully use that single chassis to bi amp my present speakers as well as power the surround speakers.

I thought somewhere there was a writeup on how to change the wiring on the 9's to eliminate the low ohm dip they take.

The wiring thing would be interesting to know more about if u can dig it up Viggen900 id appreciate it

I to have some questions about the Kappa 9's.
A friend gave me a pair to demo. I have them Bi-amped
with Kenwood L-09's (300watts@8 400@4 & 1000 Dynamic@4) and L-07 monoblocks. This seems OK great sound but the the 9's will clip a half volume. (dims the lights as well!). I have turned the gain all the way down and that helps. Thinking I may just give these back and move on. Any thoughts on the kennys

Those Kenwoods have alot of power, 300 for the L09 and 150 for the L07, but they will not produce the current needed to drive the Kappas.
New amp or new speakers, or listen at low levels.
Back to Jtiesel... I believe the Coda amps will drive these quite well and are nice sounding amps. Call Doug @ Coda, they will shoot you straight. Tim

You need amps with more testicular fortitude.

Thanks,
I will be moving on, No Kappas in the house .
While I am sure they sound great with the right amps
there just not worth it for me.

Thanks for your input.

Jtiesel2,

get a class D, 2 * 1000 watts on 4 ohms from a dealer to try at home

and then tell us ... I think you will have a nice surprise

It depends on what you want and what your financial straight is. Any high quality solid state amp will do the job.

I would recommend that you try new amps, becouse they easily surpass the preformance of the loudspeaker.

I can recommend the Modwright KWA150 one amp or if you have to money you can use a pair to drive the Kappa 9's.

If you biamp I would certainly encourage you to use a vaccum tube amplifier for the midrange and tweeter like the older Sonic Frontiers Power 2 or Power 3. If you use another tube amp, make sure that the output transformer has two ohm or one ohm windings.

To make it sound that good you might spend not less money, becouse the amps I mentioned are not really cheap at Audiogon.

@Rrog:
Most people believe the sound of the amplifier will be degreated becouse of the 0.78ohm load. However, some people met Arnie and he always pointed out to use tube amps, becouse they changed the sound and linearity dramatically due to the impedance cruve.
They will sound better will any high powered solid state or tube amp. It is absolutely incorrect when a power amp can deal with the load that the sound will be degrated. This loudspeaker can react extremely fast and with the right amp I beleieve there is no loudspeaker down to that price range that can play in the league.
I have already heard loudspeakers in the 100 000$ league but it seems that alomost none can come close to the Kappa 9's.
If you have built them up new, remove the polyswitches you will hear what this loudspeaker can really do. I have already heard the Genesis 5 and that loudspeaker is close to that.
I have tube eletronics and solid state eletronics and I have never heard anything that could beat a Kappa 9. They may only be topped by Genesis and the RS-1 or IRS Series.

I have the Kappa 7's and the Kappa 9's. I have the K7's matched with a Levinson No.23 amp, great combo for my room size (17 by 25ish).
The K9's need a much bigger room and 600 watts per chanel or more to truly apreciate them. I would prefer McIntosh MC1201 mono blocks or as others have stated, bi-amp them.............in either case, my opinion of the K9's is that I love the sound that they are capeable of. You just need the room and the budget to let them do what they were designed to do.
If you feel that the K9's are increddible speaks, then you have to commit some fundage to them and you will not be dissapointed.....otherwise sell me your parts because I intend on keeping mine for as long as I can!

From another perspective: I have Kappa 6's, 7's, 8's & 9's all owned since new in 1987. I've powered them all very successfully (right now using the 7's & 8's) with Harmon Kardon Citation 22's. Two amps in the bi-amped mode. I haven't blown anything in 23 years and have driven all of them in various combinations at levels to make your ears bleed listening to RUSH! Citation 22's come up on ebay regularly and sell from $200 to $400.

I think with all the naysayers in this thread, it's worth mentioning that there are two modes for the Kappa 9 woofers to operate in:

1. The "extended" mode, which is the "amp-killing" mode that goes down to 0.8 ohms.

2. The "normal" mode, which puts a 1 ohm, 50 W resistor in series with the woofers - thus raising their impedance to levels more like the Kappa 8.

I used an Adcom GFA-555 to power my Kappa 8s - and I was never for lack of power or stability. The only time I ever blew a fuse was when running a 20 Hz test tone at obscene volumes - and it was the power supply fuse, not one of the output fuses.

You could almost certainly power the Kappa 9s in normal mode with a 555 (or any other similar amp) as well - leaving you a good $2200 or more in the bank to save for an amp that can run them well in extended mode. Until then, you can party hard with only slightly less bass.

On the other hand if you find an Audio Research M300 you might be in heaven. Arnie has developed the Kappa 9's with that amp.

own kappa 9s run them with a bryston 4 nrb and bryston pre amp and 2 powered subs. Have the speakerers set on normal on back which reduces the low end while keeping everything else same. This makes the amp use less power making it more efficient. This is were the subs come in to pick up the lost bass. This made a HUGE difference. Have looked to trade in the kappas but havent found anything yet that sounds the same even at 3500+ but this is just my opinion what ever sounds good to you is the way you go.

I'm quite happy running my K9's with a pair of Threshold SA/2 monos. 100w/ch but plenty of current. I have run the speakers with a pair of Threshold S/500 II's in bi-amp mode as well and honestly the SA/2s sound way better.

I have to add that Mitch is right here.

if you do not biamply and put a Threshold S/1000 or SA/2 in front of them and use a good tube amp Audio Research SP11 or solid state Threshold FET 10e or 11 or SP15 this loudspeaker is going to blow you away!

They are real life keepers if you do not have the room for the RS-1, Gamma's or Betas.

Believe it, I bi-amped Kappa 9s with a pair of Sony TA-N80ES amplifiers together with a Sony TA-E80ES pre-amp for the last twenty years without any problem. I was in love with the Kappa 9s and decided to buy them even though the salesperson at the local high end electronics store has warned me they will destroy my Sony amps in few minutes. At first I was very careful with the volume level, then after playing the first album I cranked up the volume level and went through couple more albums without any problem, I was happy enough to call the salesperson and let him know my Sony amps could drive the Kappa 9s and also invited him over to my house and with my permission he cranked up volume to the highest level our ears could handle and by the look at his face, I knew he was shocked to see my Sony amps could happily run the Kappa 9s. Anyway, I highly recommend any Kappa 9s owners out there to look for a pair of Sony TA-N80ES amps on Ebay or Craiglist, and depend on condition might cost between $400 to $600 each.

Here's my email address if you have any questions about Sony amps: 7matchpoint@gmail.com

Specifications:

1. General
System: analog
Color: 1=Silver, 2=Black: 2 (Wood Sides)
Power consumption: 510 W @ 120/240 V

Power Amplifier
Speaker Outputs: 2 x 2 Speakers; Phones
Continuous Power 4Ω: 270 +270 (THD 0.006%)
230 + 230 (6Ω, THD 0.005%) Watts
Continuous power 8Ω: 200 + 200 (THD 0.004%)
1 x 610 (Mono) Watts
Frequency Response: 1-200,000 HZ
Input Sensitivity: 1,000 (balanced)
500 (balanced) mV
Input Impedance: 30 (unbalanced)
0.6 (balanced) kΩ
Harmonic Distortion: 0.004 (4Ω)
0.003 (6Ω)
0.0018 (8Ω) % at rated output

2. Physical
Dimensions in Inches: 18.50 x 7.28 x 17.32 (w) x (h) x (d)
Dimensions in mm: 470 x 185 x 440 (w) x (h) x (d)
Weight in lbs: 52.91 lbs
Weight in Kg: 24 Kg

Hello

I can offer you Dayton Wright Sps-Mk3 professional preamplifier for your equipment with tube sound,if you didn't buy the electronics allready...

Thank you for your precious time and plausible answer

BR,
Jason

hi friend
i hope you could help me as you have also Kappa9 !
i need x02 3" Edgewound Voice Coil Polydome Midrange Driver !
i can not find any where to buy it . could you please be so kind and name me any company which can help me ? my email is also : info@audioartReference !
thanks very much for your help !

regards
soheil

.
check eBay...they have them all the time
.

I just bought a pair of the domes only on eBay. They're a pain to get aligned, but from what I can make out, better than the 'replacements' that use different material. Good luck

I just received a pair of K9's. I also received a pair of Kinergetics KBA-202 Platinums. Speakers and amps need a little work. Does anyone have any experience and/or documentation for these devices?

I have to add that since some years I tried different combos.

If you do not biamp a very high current like the old Threshold SA series is a must. They sounded best at my home with the SA/2 monos.

Still the best sweetness and natralness came with an Audio Research SP-10 preamp as well as with an Counterpoint SA-5 or SA-5.1.

For costs I am not biamplyfing but I have a total of 56 kg power amps to drive them and they sing very beautifully.

I have tried different biamping suggestestions also with tube amps but sooner or later I came back to the SA/2 monos.

Only if you use very expensive tube on full range it will sound better like the Audio Research M-300, Conrad Johnson Premier Fives and of course a VTL Deluxe 300, nothing really very cheap of course.


You might still get the best results with biamplificatio or if you cannot biamply use very high current designs back from the past.

I have to add that not any biampliciation sounds best. You need to try and find it out.

Biamplication however with very good amps is less necessary if you have a killer preamp.

I hope this all helps. Long time no discussion here!

so when the 9's came out in the 80's  what amp back then were used to drive them????    i cannot beleve a speaker was made and there are no amp that can drive them.   and since then many amp's came out with lots of power and able to go into 4 ohm loads and lower.  i cannot imagine amps like a parasound hca 3500  with 500 watts into 4 ohms on the bass and a bryston 4b  on the top would not be able to handle the speaker.  if I had those speakers I would get for under $1,000  a pair of adcom 5500's.  I bet they would do just fine.   I had a pair running my infinity 1b's for 3 years and they dident even break a sweat.  that could be had for $400 each  see them all the time on the bay for that.  $800 total.  if it dosent work out  its only $800 not $2.500.    I'm betting they will work.  just a hunch   

so here is what you do.  odyssey audio.   stratos  stereo amps.   buy two. 20 year warranty.  nobody is going to argue with the sound quality here. jtiesel2, if you are a smart man, and I know you are you would consider this option first.   TWO NEW high quality amps for $2,600 that will work. if you notice the amps are 2 ohm stable

◾$1,375 USD
◾2 x 150 Watts RMS @ 8 Ohms
◾2 Ohm load stable
◾Class A/AB
◾2 - 400,000 Hz frequency range
◾60,000µF memory
◾45 amps current delivery
◾<0.04% THD (not audible)
◾>500 continuous damping factor
◾Input impedance 22K ohms
◾DC offset <1 mV
◾RCA & XLR (bridged) inputs
◾400 VA Plitron transformer
◾Sanken Epitaxial Planar Transistors 2SA1216 & 2SC2922
◾Anti vibration dual thickness PCB
◾Power consumption when idle ±30Watts
◾4 internal fuses 250V/6.3A, 5x20mm, fast blow
◾Additional electrical protection fuse
◾54 lbs weight / 24.5 kg
◾Dimensions: 19 width x 18 deep x 7 height (in) /
48.3 width x 45.7 deep x 17.8 height (cm)

I currently have a Stratos DUAL-MONO on my CLSIIa. This amp works VERY WELL with these. The CLSIIa will drop below 1 ohm and this amp NEVER breaks a sweat! Very open sounding and I agree, a little dark.

taken from a post here

tomtab-

what other gear, including cables, is in your system?

jafant,,, why do you need to know that????    im helping jtiesel2 here trying to find an amp that will work with his kappa 9's.   my equipment is not going to help him

I agree with George and again to tomlab.

The speaker was developed in conjunction with Audio Research M-300 amplfiers.
However Arnie used the SP-11 as a pre and various Threshold models to drive them full range.

For you info the Adcom wont do the job. The Kappas 9 impednace is below 1 ohm in the mid and highs and at the woofer region producing phase angels with minus 70 to 80 degrees. This is near a total short.

Therefore biamplfiying takes aout the stress produced by those angels.

I agree with micthforte that only very high current designs should be used and lower powered amps like the Adcom wont do it. The Parasound works quite well and if you have alow budget you might go for it, but do not expect that it will sound like Audio Nirvana.

For full range I would go with the big Threshold SA series and agood vaccum tube pre or an CJ Premier 5, Audio Research M-300, VTL Deluxe 300 or a McIntosh MC 275.

If your really low on bduget you can go with the Parasound I still would use a tube pre.

Should you ant to biamply you will need a Goldpoint stepped attenuator for matching the gains.

You can use the Prasound for the whole speaker, later use the Parasound for the bottom and apply a tube amp for the mid and highs. You need a seperate passive preamp for matching gains like the Goldpoint stepped attenuator.

Another soloution would be a Mark Levinson No.23 for just 2000$ bucks and use a tube pre like an Audio Research SP-6B or SP-8.


The Martin Logan CLSII does not produce difficuilt phase angels like the Kappa 9's and therefore they are much easier to drive.

I have experienced myself that a lot of money is necessary to keep the speaker work properly and if it is too expensive an Infinity RS2b has much lower requirements.

Hi
I ve had lots of amps on my k9's and all sound great. I'm running the kappa's with a musical fidelity a308cr power amp and that sounds very good. But even with a rotel 1080 it did a great job with no problem. 

Hello,
i bought some k9’s last year. I am running Phase Linear 400 on top and 700 on bottom.
I drove those speakers past concert levels but my power management system broke down taking my 700 with it. I use Signature AVS 2000 w/ HTPS Signature 7000. The 7000 failed reset itself and came back but I was left with a left channel out in the 700.
I sent the amp out and had it reworked to White Oak inwards. Fired it up and the Kappa’s sounded like they had subs inside of them. I know what subs do cause I got a spot in my house I call subcity and there are 3 subs over there.
I bought a C-19 and had it overhauled and modded by Carver repair west coast. Got another 7000 out of storage but overlooked the fact I didn’t grab a Signature and refired the system. Running about 10:30 I moved the gain up one spot right and turned the bass right channel max. I never made it to the left as the 700 main fuse died the 10amp one. Supply fuses still good. So been reading what you guys are saying and I’m not getting rid of the Kappa 9’s. Why? Where can I find speakers that sound like subs and have the satisfaction that I’m running amp killers. So I gotta order the fuses 10 amp and see how much damage has been done. And I’ve come to this conclusion, maybe I should get Audio Research M300 for bass side and move the 700 on top replacing the bullet proof 400.
I need to point one thing out the HTPS 7000 is rated out to 1440 watts which I exceeded that amount the night I blew it but didn’t know at that time. I never heard you guys talk about Phase Linear amps on this thread but mine had to push past 1440 that night to kill the 7000. Which will find its way back to Monster.
So what say all of you since I’m not selling?

One thing I left out went from 10:30 to 11:30 but the night I blew the 7000 I was out past 2pm.
I said I’d never run that hard but geez the Kappa’s make me do it.
i got gobs of will power but the Kappa’s say turn the knob...

One last thing that night the pre amp was a Phase Linear 3500.

Pick up second-hand 4 Crown XLS 1500 Class D Pro Amp. I can drive my Kappa 8’s with those all day and night without any problems and they sound very tube-like. They work on the 9’s as well. Don’t even get hot.

Pure power is what the Kappas need. And when they get that power all the drivers vanish! It sounds like the air is vibrating itself, like the gentle winds and sudden gusts of Autum. They can sound a lot like electrostatics. And you can get very tuneful, fast, authoritative stereo bass that would put any lone subwoofer to shame! It’s incredible! 

You could probably also use two Carver Signature Sunfires—one for treble and mids and one for bass. I believe that is called vertical bi-amping. I have one Signature Sunfire that I plug in as my back up amp. It is an arch welder. An audio bazooka!

In the last two weeks my Kappa 8’s appear to have trashed two BAT power amps and one Spectron Musician. I am not happy.

I love my 8’s and 7’s. The 9’s (I have too) their physical size and driver height is not suitable for most rooms and most homes do not have the right power runs to power amplifiers that can drive them.

Maybe it’s time to go back to JBL’s?

If you are looking for holographic spatial cues and full frequency extension, what speakers are an easier to drive ‘upgrade’ from the Kappa 8’s?

Not to be snarky, but a lot.  Vandersteen, Vortex Acoustics by Von Schweikert, Ascend Acoutics, Philharmonicaudio, magnepans with a subwoofer, and Salk Sound are a few that pop to mind immediately. There are dozens if not hundreds of options that will be easier to drive and sound as good, if not better. 

I would appreciate specific models of speakers that are upgrades from the Kappa 8’s.  Killing three expensive amps in two weeks is too much.

What is your budget?  Adjusting for inflation would put them at about $4300 new today.  In that same price range, or lower:

Vandersteen 2CE Signature II- $2,700
Magnepan .7 ($1400) plus Rythmik F12 ($1000)-= $2400
Vortex Acoustics VR-33- $3,750
Revel F36- $2000
Philharmonic 3- $3500
Salk Sound Song 3a- $2995
Ascend Acoustics Sierra Tower- $1998

All the above are new prices.  Used you can get better deals or move up in the range (i.e. Vandersteen 3A Sig, Magnepan 1.7).  The above are just a few of the excellent choices available.  The 8s were IMHO, not anything amazing.  Pretty good sounding, but not fabulous.  You really have to spend some time listening to see what you like.  All of the above are great speakers, and there are dozens more.  The issue is what you like.  Some will like all on the list, some will some and hate others, some will hate them all.  It is very personal.  

Excellent thread!  Another new 9Kappa owner here.  I'm mainly trying to figure out what subwoofer to get and what preamps/crossovers I will need to try bi-amping.  But I'll tell the longer story here just for fun:

I always loved the look of the Kappa 9s -- plus it is possible for them to sound great with the right amps.  After 30 years of wanting a pair, someone a mile away had an estate sale over the summer and I ended up with a pair of Kappa 6s and 9s (all 6 woofers in desperate need of foam) as well as a Nakamichi PA-7, Adcom 535, and a LaserDisc player.  Quite a nice rig in the late 80's!

I knew what I was in for with the Kappa 9 amp killers, and I have been holding on to a Parasound HCA-3500 just for this occasion -- it is probably a good "starter amp" for these monsters.  I expect there will be a lot of tweaking ahead to get the best sound, and just to make things more tricky -- I have never used dipole speakers before.

I just got the refoamed woofers back yesterday!  My first impression was: it sounds terrible when one speaker is on Extended and the other isn't.  Once I figured this out, it starting sounding better -- but I am definitely going to want a subwoofer since Phish bass is hugely important to me.  Can someone recommend one that would be a good match and in line with the "entry level audiophile" price range I usually shoot for?  My previous speakers were Boston VR-970s which I really enjoyed -- the low end on them was perfect for live rock concerts.  If I can get anywhere close to this type of low end in a way that matches the Kappa 9s, I will consider this upgrade a success.

Also, this is my first bi-amping experience so I am not sure what kind of preamp/crossover gear I should buy to start experimenting.  I think it will be best to use the PA-7 for the high pass and the 3500 for low pass... plus the subwoofer.  Presumably I will want a crossover that will split into high, low, and sub levels from the 2 preamp channels, right?  Is there any way to do this that will still allow 5.1 to work properly -- i.e. an integrated preamp/crossover?  This is starting to feel like a "lmgtfy.com" moment now.  :D

Thanks!Mark
p.s. is there any point in trying to understand the details of Extended mode?  If I add a sub and I'm bi-amping is there any reason to choose one mode over the other?
p.p.s. wow at moderate volume the HCA3500 is too hot to touch for more than a second or two... might be a fire hazard.

Quick update: what makes the sound even worse than mismatched "Extended" modes is when the bottom woofer is wired backward. I re-did the wiring on both speakers and it sounds infinity-ly better now. This seems to be a common problem on these speakers -- I saw a surprising number of "refoamed and sounds crappy" threads.

I still think I’ll want a sub, but obviously the need isn’t quite as great as it was an hour or two ago.

Oops I was posting on two different threads.  This must be a popular topic!
The bottom line: I figured out how passive bi-amping works and it sounds wonderful.
The other important piece of information I figured out: the best place to go for all your bi-amping and RCA cable needs is a car audio shop.  They are big time users of crossovers and RCA cables.

On the other hand for costs you could try two Threshold SA3, Two pairs of Carver Silver 9T's, two Threshold S300 or a Mark Levinson No.23.

The best results I have gotten with tube /hybrid preamps. If you cannnot afford expensive ones try Audible Illusions Modulus3 or Mfa Magus.

I hope this will get the hassle out of bad reviews.

I have a pair of the K9's -I bought them new 1988 !

I have matched them successfully for over 30 years with a a pair of Metaxas Solitaire high current power amplifiers.

The speakers and amps are in storage pending my return to Australia- Locked out for 3 years due to covid.

I am going to restore the Solitaires back to factory spec  and get these babies back singing.