How I tamed digital glare.

tom8999, Looking forward to hearing back from you on this. It was always that last bit of glare that eluded me until I got the MC-0.5.

I hope it works as well for you as it did for me.

All the best,
Nonoise

kosst_amojan" the data stream should be the same for any given CD every single time it's played regardless of the operating conditions"

What you are claiming here is the compact disk audio is always absolutely perfect everytime  but of course in the real world where most of us live outside of the trailer park that is not how things work and telling us "You don't seem to understand the nature of digital data on a CD" is not an argument in favor of your flawed assertion.

Just to clarify, by the time the digital data arrives at the DAC it’s too late. The data has already been corrupted. Reed and Solomon were just two older gentlemen they told to do the best they could with errors and their error codes do pretty well with scratches and fingerprints. But that about the extent of it. The damage occurs as soon as the laser touches the pits and lands. Within a picosecond or so. The CD laser and detector simply read and record STOP and START of pits and lands. It doesn’t become meaningful digital data until later downstream.

kosst_amojan"Hi foggy, Your post above will be disappearing shortly, but I'll respond to it. "

That is so funny there is a pattern hear becoming apparent, evident, and obvious you have my post deleted but then feel free to post a response to my post creating an echo chamber where you talk to yourself! This makes you a powerful, influential, and authoritative person in the world of hi-fi congratulations!

kosst_amojanSorry, foggy, but I can't take all the credit for your posts getting punted. You showed up and made brutally repugnant statements that lowered your level of respect tremendously, and then you chose to attack people left and right.  

Brutally repugant? I think you are being overdramatic and acting overimportant, self-righteous and boorish you've become as big a boil on this site you don't even know what you're talking about what a moron! If I'm so repugnant you can alert the moderators and have me booted permanently, silly "little fella."

Hey tom8999... Can't wait to hear about your experience with the MC 0.5! 

Does anyone have experience with the Shunyata Venom Defender?

Audio, what an amazing hobby.

Talking about CD vibrations, flutter and scattered light seems to be assessing analog diseases to a non analog entity.

How can it be possible?

Never heard of a Tesla losing engine power due to a unappropriate timing belt installation.

As Kosst pointed out, we should retrieve exactly the same data from every disc reader.

If this data reading system would be so unefficient, how can we successfully and consistently run programs and data from it?

The rationale behind this school of thinking is if we miss a single bit or data in the numerical string of data of an audio file, it will be audible.

It makes sense but an audio file is no different than any other numerical file, especially a program file.

Do you think that a reading error will not make a program fail ?

I would tend to believe that whether it runs or it crashes. 


About reading problems concerning the laser, 

first, if vibrations and all were a problem, this system of data retrieving would not work at all for computers,

second, compared to speed of light, the speed of non desirable movements of disk are kind of neglectible ...

When we know, we can prove it and explain it rigthly.

I do not pretend to know, I only pretend to be ... amazed!

I think a lot of the negative talk about CDPs and their susceptibility to fail at any and every turn to correctly read the data is borne out of some very well done advertising by the audio computer industry. 

Just because it can misread doesn't mean it will misread. There's so much built into it that compensates for errors as well as the fact that most are very well made, that it all comes down to trying to prove a negative. 

Anyone can pipe up and ask how sure you are that it's not misreading the data? That's just trolling for trolling's sake. All of this is dancing on the head of an already crowded pin.

All the best,
Nonoise

nonoise

Just because it can misread doesn't mean it will misread. There's so much built into it that compensates for errors as well as the fact that most are very well made, that it all comes down to trying to prove a negative.

Anyone can pipe up and ask how sure you are that it's not misreading the data? That's just trolling for trolling's sake.

Actually, no, errors on CD are well established and widely researched.  See IASA website. Also, research by Trock (which I think you can get from IASA) and others. There's no need to reinvent the wheel here, or to pretend that prior research doesn't exist.

kosst_amojan

... the mere fact you can run a piece of software off a CD 1000 times with a 100% success rate demonstrates the reliability of the medium.

Apples/oranges. There's a difference between reading a data CD and playing an audio CD in real time, as has been demonstrated in the research I referenced. There's no need to pretend that prior research doesn't exist.

Digital storage is not the issue.  It's turning the digital data into music.  The "A" in DAC.  Here timing is a big issue--how accurately, from a timing point of view, the converter is running.

kosst_amojan

You didn’t cite any research. You posted a link to an industry trade group.

Not so, I wrote see "Also, research by Trock ..." and there is a lot of research by others.

You simply don’t want to look into it because you fear its conflict with your belief system. There is a w-h-o-l-e lot of scientific data on this. Are you an AES member, which would allow access to its presentations?

I believe there has to be a "perfect storm" of sorts for everything that can go wrong does. And when it does, just get another and better made CDP.  What I hear from my Marantz SA15S2b is nothing to sneeze at. It's some of the most sublime music I've heard.

Audio shows that use computer or streaming audio never won me over. It all sounded like really good to just okay FM. It spanned the gamut from edgy and shrill to milquetoast. Successfully getting music to play seemed to be the great accomplishment, not the quality.

It's kind of like you too can be your own DJ/radio host and tinker with all the settings and lose the forest for the trees with the forest being the music and the enjoyment you get and the trees that distract you being the hardware.

I'm just too old skool as for me it's plop it and play it.

The only computer rig that floored me was an MSB demo that turned out to be their CD player playing in their system. Vince Galbo just smiled when he told me after I said it was the best computer audio I've heard.

With new CD sleds out there like the Blue Tiger, CD is far from dead. They claim they can get more data in a more secure way to pass it down/out to the DAC. We don't have to rely on older tech and a diminishing supply of good quality sleds. 

All the best,
Nonoise

I have an Ayre C5xemp....ain't no digital glare

“Perfect Sound Forever.” Apparently there are quite a few people who swallowed the marketing slogan hook, line and sinker. 🐡 🐠 🐟 🐡

stringreen
I have an Ayre C5xemp....ain’t no digital glare

Are we to assume all of your previous ones did? 😬

@pmboyd
i have the Shunyata Defender and love it. Best 200 bucks I have spent in my system. Give it a try with confidence, you can always return it if it doesn’t work wonders in your setup. 

spenva, how many Shunyata Defenders (SD) do you need? One for each outlet that has audio gear plugged into? In my case, I have powered speakers, so one each for them as well? Or would it be one per household circuit? I also run all my power cords to a Furman 15pfi power conditioner, so should I plug a SD into the back of it as well?

geoffkait

“Perfect Sound Forever.” Apparently there are quite a few people who swallowed the marketing slogan ...

It's actually worse than that. They not only believe and embrace the slogan, but they have built a whole belief system using the slogan as the foundation. Any information that conflicts with the slogan is dismissed with the wave of a hand, or with an insult - as demonstrated by some of the deleted posts in this thread.

It's unfortunate, because it could be useful to have conversations about this is certain threads, such as this one. But there are ideologues here, so it seems it never ends well.

Talk about projection. No one is doing what you accuse them of. No one said "perfect sound forever." 

The only embracing done is by those who dislike an opposing view. The premises drawn are just a straw man argument meant to deflect by attributing views and stands that no one proffered.

My CDP may make a mistake, or miss step, now and again but is it big enough to hear? Does it detract from the enjoyment. No, to both questions. 

Now, compare that to computer audio where there's so much networking involved and any small change in software and/or hardware can and will elicit an equally large change, for better or worse, in the resultant sound. There's still lots to work out and it's evident by the reviews and anecdotal evidence of those who've tried out better transports and came away with the opinion that's it's just as good, or better, than lots of the high end, expensive computer rigs out there.

This hobby is based on subjective listening and evaluation and to unequivocally state that one can't or shouldn't hear what they're hearing is just, plain, silly.

All the best,
Nonoise

@high-amp
I only use a single one. All of my gears are connected to a single line through a ZeroSurge 10 outlet plus a six outlet power cord. The Defender is in the six outlet extension. I tried to add an AC ipurifier but returned it as it didn’t add anything to the equation. I guess you can try multiple and remove one at a time to see if you lose any benefit. Nothing to lose as you can always return them.

Geof....nope ...just that you need a good one. 

I've been dealing with "Digital Glare" since 1985 and tried Green Markers, Disc Mats, Armor All you name it. I have owned more Disc players and DAC than I can or want to remember.  The following is what's worked the best for Me: Ripping all my Disc to a computer and using iTunes and it's digital Equalizer, then into a DAC.  2nd and near as good as the eq is my Esoteric DV-50 with it's up sampling and filter features.  That said, some folks get there shorts knotted just thinking about Eq's, I used too but a wise old Man told me, It's your music listen to it any darn way you want, you paid for it.

Ironically Green Pens are marginally effective due to the fact that green absorbs visible red light whereas the CD laser light is mostly invisible infrared light and appears red only as a safety feature.

kosst_amojan:09pm

@cleeds 

Can you stop flagging posts that point out that you cited NO EVIDENCE?

Please direct your complaints to the moderators.

This is beyond childish...…..

" Your complete guide to eliminating digital glare:
Paint the insides flat black or even better line with a very flat black fabric. Color CD edges with a black or green marker or paint pen. Clean them with any combination of acrylic cleaners and cloths. Demagnetize em. Put cones, balls, balloons, or a phone book under it, and/or put sand, lead, wood, or whatever on top of it. Use anti-static spray. Play the demagnetizing tracks on the XLO Test CD. Finally, cue up a record. Done. "
  Sunglasses also work although I have seen a few times when only a Miller auto darkening lens was sufficient. I also have had to quit listening to some songs like "Here Comes The Sun" because it was way to bright. Sun Ra was a band I had to quit playing because of this. Overbearing digital glare can be a combination of many things and so are the fixes.

“Perfect Sound Forever.” Apparently there are quite a few people who swallowed the marketing slogan ...

Depending on their age, it might have been.

Elizabeth.

Nice to see that the glare did not diminish your sense of humour.....

👍👍

I ran out of digital inputs on my DAC, when I added a second streaming device. I use my CD player infrequently, so I went back to the analog output on the player. I noticed that I lost a bit of detail and depth, but the sound was less fatiguing with a little less glare. Kinda backwards technologically, but the on board DAC of my 20 year old CD player was pretty good for it's time.

There is no simple answer. There are a great many reasons why someone hears glare, or thinks the sound is too hot, or too grainy, or too lean, or lacks air or sweetness. I’ve already given my top 2 reasons nobody ever heard of - the inherent vibration of the CD whilst spinning and scattered laser light. It’s like night and day.

That’s kind of why advanced audiophiles have taken to the streets and developed all manner of room treatments, resonators, CD treatments, cd transport dampers, Tube dampers, isolation stands, green pens, purple pens, dampers for printed circuit boards, graphene fuses, Quantum this and quantum that, directional fuses and cables. The whole nine yards, it doesn’t take a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.