I'm new to Step Up Transformers

@jasonbourne71 Facts. I'm using a .75-meter custom-made phono cable between my SUT and phono.

My Hyperion is a moving iron cartridge and it decidedly works best with a low gain phono stage, and my preference is to use an SUT in to the MM input of every phono stage I have tried it with. 

@billstevenson 

Which SUT are you using with the Hyperion ?

Have you compared many ??

Thanks.

I have a Pro-ject Tube Box DS2, an external phono stage that I run through my tuner line stage on my preamp.

Yeah it’s weird but it works fabulously.

Do I get a prize when I hit 1,000 comments? 

Maybe a free guided tour of every linear inch of my audio circuitry, perhaps? 

"Which SUT are you using with the Hyperion ?

Have you compared many ??"

My current favorite is the Consolidated Silver Wire SUT.  I also have a Bob's Devices.  Both are external and are 10:1.  I also had an internal one in my previous Conrad-Johnson phono stage.  That covers the last 10 years or so.  I've been at this a long time and have had others, Ortofon, for example, Denon too, years ago, but with different cartridges and TT/arm setups that hardly are pertinent today.  I should also mention that for several years now I have settled on Audio Sensibility Statement silver interconnects.  Interconnects in and out are pertinent and consistency is important in evaluating differences.

When it comes to hifi hobby, matching the correct stuff together is what creates nice synergy. One might have 2 excellent sounding pieces but they might not sound great together. Exploring external SUT’s is just one of the many unique things people do to get the best performance from their vinyl setup. I own 7 SUT’s and have listened to about 15 different ones in my system. They all sound very different.  I heard some very nice ones but in the end, I settled on a SUT that uses 50’s transformers made by Thordarson. Just like everything in this hobby, there is a world of SUT’s and makers of them out there for you to try. No easy way around this once you open that door. Good luck and you’ll see that they do make a difference. 

Thanks for this very educational discussion!  

rmcfee, I’m glad I am able to share my experience with you about SUT’s. Mine journey began when I first purchased a Denon step up for my Denon cartridge. I then picked up a Ortofon and after an expensive active tube based Klimo. From there I started to realize that these things make a difference. I listened to my friends AudioNote and even though it worked great in his system, for mine it was too clean and lacking body. In his setup, it sounded great. I listened to a bunch more till I found around 7 that I liked best for me. Don’t think that because a transformer matches well in someone’s system that it will sound good in yours even if you own the same cartridge. Your system (cables, tonearm, preamp, listening room) is unique and you’ll need to hear it in your system and find the best sounding and matching SUT’s not just for your Cartridge alone, but for the system. If I were you, I would begin with searching on the web what the majority recommend what SUT’s with your cartridge. You might get a few and find them very good, but if you keeping going, eventually you’ll find the one that matches really nice with your system. 

To me, the real purpose of SUT's is to allow the use of a low output MC cartridge with a MM only phono stage. I recently replaced the McIntosh preamp in my main setup with the new Marantz AV10 processor.  It has terrific specs and very low noise, but it only has a MM phono stage, while the I have a low output MC cartridge on that turntable.  So I bought a SUT so that I could connect directly to the phono input on the Marantz.  It works just as anticipated, but I would not say it is better sounding than using the same table' and cartridge going to the MC input of the McIntosh.  

There is no better or worse here. It’s what works out in your system. I’ve heard inexpensive amps outperform expensive amps in a particular setup. So using the MC section of a very good phonostage doesn’t mean it will sound better or worse than using the MM with a SUT. If someone has great synergy with the built in MC then they are fortunate. But if the built in MC isn’t a good sonic balance with the cartridge, a person has a ton of flexibility using the MM section and exploring the many SUT’s available.  In my experience, it works out exceptionally well in getting the correct balance, - detail, dynamics, fullness, transparency, naturalness, etc. 

Keep in mind that what you’re proposing, assembling essentially a collection of SUTs so one can experiment with mating to one or several LOMC cartridges in pursuit of a best match, can easily become very expensive, time consuming, and possibly so troublesome as to discourage one from pursuing the hobby at all. Perhaps it works for you, but it’s not tenable for everyone who otherwise wants to use vinyl as a source.

It sure is an expensive pursuit.  My Consolidated Silver cost $5,500, my Bob's Devices was $1,200.  I believe the Ortofon is now around $1,800.  To these prices you need to add interconnects.  It is a lot easier, cheaper and cleaner to just buy a good high gain phono stage.  My PS Audio Stellar has that capability which is why I bought it.  In fact it is what I am listening to today in my new system.  It makes more sense to join a club if possible that accommodates member loans/exchanges or at least get togethers to try different SUTs or what not. 

It sure is an expensive pursuit

@billstevenson you ain't kidding.  I have a VDH current phono stage, and a Corralstone cart.  I'd have to get a quality voltage phono and a quality SUT.  It'll be a long while - dealing with other rabbit holes

Lewn, if just because it may not work for you doesn’t mean it doesn’t work for someone else. They’re  are tons of audiophiles that have a huge inventory of cables, tubes, cartridges as so on with many tweaks. That is because they buy this extra stuff in pursuit of the best sound they can get. 

There is no better or worse here. It’s what works out in your system

@lowtubes Actually if you get the loading right you'll find there is 'better' and that the differences between your various SUTs is less than you thought.

Atmosphere, I’ve been through that already. The loading is correct on my vinyl. In fact many people do not know that proper loading is usually done from a selector switch on the phonostage in which the switch run through a series of resistors. Someone looking to have there preamp get the proper load for their cartridge is a very simple thing. Just look up the spec on the cartridge and insert the proper resistor in the phono input stage of the preamp. I’m way past the stage you talking about. I’m referring to getting the sound that pleases you and the end result that makes your heart happy when you listen to the vinyl playback. This is not something that is done from a technical point. It is something that your ears and heart tell you is right when you hear it. Sampling with SUT’s is only a small but also very involved part of what one can do to find that perfect sound they’ve been searching for. They’re so many variables in this hobby.  Years ago, many people fought the idea that cables don’t make a difference. Today just about every serious audiophile knows they do. And just about every serious audiophile probably has a collection of cables in their inventory. Without me experimenting with various cables my system would never be sounding as good as it does. My system is a mix of Silver and Copper hi end cables. SUT’s not only match the cartridge from a technical point, but they also add their own sound or sonic signature. I have 3 SUT’s that all match my cartridge perfectly, a 1950’s Ampex, 1950’s RCA and a 1950’s Thordarson. The Thordarson in “MY Setup” sounds the best,  most relaxed and natural sounding while still plenty of detail, musical, great bass and nice highs and very transparent and engaging. I’m not recommending any particular brand as I’ve been in this hobby for 30 yrs and know what sounds good in my home may not work in another. This is a very involving hobby. I’m not into the hifi fuses that are on the market now but I will say, I have a $200 Synergistic Research fuse on my $6,000 single end 805 tube amp and it sounds great. A friend let me try the fuse and I purchased it. I’m not into the fuse thing but there is a world there also. This is a crazy hobby with no limits.  

Only 30 years?

Yes 30 yrs and I’m still learning. I have many diehard buddies that been in the hobby longer and are great resources. I live in NYC and here we get access to everything with components, tweaks, designers, great audio clubs. 

In fact many people do not know that proper loading is usually done from a selector switch on the phonostage in which the switch run through a series of resistors. Someone looking to have there preamp get the proper load for their cartridge is a very simple thing. Just look up the spec on the cartridge and insert the proper resistor in the phono input stage of the preamp.

@lowtubes If we are talking about an SUT in the signal chain this is just about guaranteed to not work. But if you enjoy the sound that's fine.

I ran an LP mastering operation and recording studio so I have LPs I recorded. My perspective is thus a bit different; using LPs you recorded make a great reference for really knowing what is going on.

If you weren't referring to an SUT in the quote above, the loading resistor is really for the benefit of the phono section rather than the cartridge. When the cartridge plays it generates RFI (Radio Frequency Interference) which might be as high as 5MHz on account of the inductance of the cartridge being in parallel with the capacitance of the tonearm cable. Some preamps react poorly to that RFI so their designers added a switch to allow you different resistors which detune the resonance that causes the RFI. But if your phono section doesn't care about the RFI its plug and play. 

If you were talking about an SUT above, the capacitance of the tonearm cable and the cable between the SUT and preamp plays a role in the correct loading values (meaning its not something you can just 'look up'). Sometimes the correct load isn't just a resistor but a resistor and capacitor in series.

Yes I agree that inserting a capacitor at times in series with a resistor gives a more stable and beneficial result. I’m aware that the resistor is for the preamp to see, but one needs to know the specs of the cartridge to insert the correct value resistor. My friend who owned a recording studio in Manhattan heard my setup and said the same thing you’re saying but he did admit my vinyl sounded fantastic. So did my other friend who listens to lot of Reel to Reel, he owns 15 machines, one of his cost $40,000. And another buddy of mine who has one of the best horn speakers posted on YouTube liked my vinyl very much. Point I’m making, I don’t care what people think on how a system should work. I’ve heard the most complexed systems sound great, and the most simple sound bland.  And then vice versa. This hobby you cannot put on paper and expect great results.  Assembling components together with the correct synergy has worked for me so far. 

So in theory, the factor of insertion of anything shouldn’t improve anything or make anything sound better but in my experience it has at times. For many years, diehard audiophiles used these SUT devices. A very popular SUT is the Altec 4722.  Lots of people had fantastic vinyl setups using this SUT.  If inserting a SUT isn’t a good idea, explain that to the thousands of serious audio that have done it with great results.