Infinity Kappa 9's sound terrible...HELP

This is my last comment on this thread. Yes indeed, it is as easy as I suggested in the last post. Another hot tip: these days the best place to go for your RCA cable needs is a car audio shop. They still use crossovers and RCA cables everywhere!
For $50 I ended up with all the RCA splitters and connectors I could have wanted, as well as a passive gain adjuster just in case. I now have the HCA-3500 going to the low pass and the PA-7 going to high pass. I will A/B the PA-7 vs. the Adcom 545 whenever I have some more spare time.
Next time I have a little bit of money and time I’ll try adding an active crossover just for fun. It looks like there is an affordable one from a company called "Biamp" that will handle low/high/sub just fine. I’ll probably have to give up on finding a single box that can manage both 2 channel music and 5.1/7.2/etc properly... so I’m probably going to have to run 5.0 or 7.0 or whatever since 2 channel is more important to me. Perhaps there are subs out there with multiple inputs? That might work.

Thanks again for these forums! I started with practically no bass due to the lowest woofer being wired backwards -- now I am biamping and I may actually have too much low end. Amazing for 1980s pre-subwoofer gear!

Unfortunately the #1 remaining problem is echo. The theater room is all drywall and hardwood floors (we just moved in to a new house). It makes the most sense to solve this before any other tweaking.
Thanks again

After doing even more reading -- it looks like it is common for people to just use a y cable from each channel of the pre-amp to plug into both amps.  This may explain why most threads didn't mention adding a crossover specifically.
Is it really this easy?

After doing some reading -- it looks like I should be able to find the crossover I need for biamping at just about any car audio shop.  Is this the case?

Hmm, I posted something yesterday plus a response and an edit but it isn't here today... weird.

I'll repost my quick question... I'm a new 9Kappa owner!  After 30 years of window shopping someone in my zip code had an estate sale and I ended up with a pair of Kappa 6's and Kappa 9's -- plus a Nakamichi PA-7, Adcom 535, and a LaserDisc player.  Can someone recommend a crossover and preamp for me to use as a first-time bi-amper?  I'm thinking I should use my Parasound HCA-3500 for low pass and the PA-7 for high pass.


The tricky part is that ideally I would like to be able to split 2 channel music into high pass, low pass, and subwoofer ranges -- but would also like 5.1 to work seamlessly.  Does this require some sort of integrated preamp/crossover hardware or is it more trouble than it's worth to make this happen?  With the two 12" woofers, bass is pretty darn good but I expect it will need some tightening up next time I have disposable income to waste.

I need to upgrade my receiver to one that does HDMI switching anyway, so now is the best time for me to choose the right hardware.

Thanks,
Mark

p.s. to anyone whose Kappa 9's are missing bass -- especially if you had a recent re-foaming -- it is quite easy to wire the lower woofer backward due to the color scheme so double check this next if you are sure that the Low Pass/High Pass jumper and connectors are fine.

Hi i owned 8's and never ever heard that(used Accuphase p102 and Audio research Classic 60 etc when i had them ) perhaps the Emit needs sorting is it in both sides? First step would be check the crossovers and make sure that is in spec - I have seen so many hacked speakers it is sad - i have no idea who to trust over there but swapping Emits out(with the 9 pair) and using a test cd may help isolate the problem .It could still be the polydomes at the upper end of there range -maybe get a pair of those black drop in replacements and see what happens. Both sets of speakers 8's and 9's should sound competitive with modern day speakers if in perfect condition .
In Germany there are a couple of experts who apparently even get the Emits redone and after these guys do the speakers up supposedly better than new - note not cheap i believe but apparently well worth it -there is an article in the German stereo magazine that you can download -not sure what issue now - think in the first 6 anyway get in touch with that guy I will post a link to the Magazine site -even ask the editor 
https://stereo-magazine.com/
cheers

Thanks Roy!

I have my Kappa 8’s sounding great now using a BAT VK-500 on the lows and a David Berning ZH270 on the mids and highs.  There is still some tearing/papery/spitty/white noise distortion type sound making sibilants a bit too broad or lingering but other than that I am at 95% satisfied.

The Kappa 9’s I have pretty much given up on. I need to crack them open and check all the wiring and crossovers. In general I think they are just too big for my 12x17 room.

So which amps would you recommend? And any ideas on taming the odd sibilants I am getting with the Kappa 8’s?

I am using a ModWright Oppo 105 D with Tung-Sol new production tubes and a Sonic Frontiers Line 2 pre amp.

Thanks!

Brett just saw this the Kappa 9 should sound magnificent with the proper gear - the amp has to be a comfortable 1 ohm stable -not 2 ohm at 2 points it dips below 1 ohm -if you have any power line noise that grunge can come out so a really good power conditioner also helps -In Australia we have no longer made ME amps and the larger models 850 and above can bang the woofers into the back of the cabinet on Yola ! if you want a terrific bargain that drives them well grab a Dusson V8 or 2 -absolutely fabulous just loses a little in the 3 dimensional image stakes(tone is gorgeous) - at reasonable volumes i can use an Antique Fisher valve x10d and the soundstage is incredible -people who say these are crap A: have a broken pair -very common B: cheap  amps that cannot handle the load C: have not set them up properly I have mine on German steel cone points $700 but worth every penny just reveals bass detail that is still state of the art today -get them off the ground but don’t skimp and you will easily hear good male voice etc
these really do sound good with big Audio Research and VTL -better than solid state because as stated and in personal conversations with Arnie he designed them using them
cheers Roy
ps just checked out some of your work -bloody amazing!

Thanks for turning me in Audiogon...

email I received today from William Legal

From: William Legall <#####@aol.com>
To: Brett McConnell <####@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2018 12:41 PM
Subject: "Claim" went out

$180 “claim” was mailed to you today.

Someone brought to out attention the audiokarma comments from you. As you don’t like our work, we won’t have to worry about further shipping “claims” in the future.

———————-

this was my reply

Hello The Many People Who Answer At And Reply From This Email Address (this email feels like its from Mr. Legall if I am not mistaken):

I made no comments about not liking your work. I did much research including buying other drivers and testing them before I sent you my Polydomes. I think your work is excellent. However your business practices seem very confused. Here are some suggestions that may help:
1) Keep business and personal emails separate--as in separate addresses.
2) Give everyone at your business their own email address.
3) Sign your emails or employ auto signing so customers have some idea who they are speaking with via email.
4) If you are closed on Sundays and Mondays, don’t read business emails on those days (instead of telling customers not to write you on Sundays and Mondays...I have never heard of that or experienced it from other companies, businesses.)
5) Pick up the phone and call customers if there is an issue.
6) Have a standard form customers fill out when submitting an item for repair or refurbishment.
7) Before starting any work on an item, check items that come in for any potential issues and check with the customer if there is any question that an item may have a defect or problem that the customer may not know about. This valuable business practice would have averted this unfortunate situation.
8) If a problem occurs you are the professionals, act professionally and get in touch with the customer. People sending you their valuable speakers understand some things are out of yours and their control and both sides can be reasonable when settling an issue I assure you.

Sending condescending emails about "claims" and emails all in caps exclaiming things like "NO CRACKS!!!!" is hardly what grownups do and is certainly not professional. I would not intentionally crack a rare Infinity Polydome driver that I sent to YOU--A SPECIALST--for repair, just so I could get $180 discount. I love my speakers! And what a pain it has been to deal with UPS.

We could have just come to some sort of agreement instead of emails from you saying "NO CRACKS!!!! I AM DONE." Not professional, not adult.

Please know those Polydomes were the very first piece of audio gear I have ever sent out for repair--EVER.

I will surely post this message on Audiokarma as well. People should know who and what that they are getting involved with when they send their precious speakers to you and your company and how you handle shipping damage when it occurs.

Thanks for your excellent Polydome refurbishments. I currently have two sets that function well, just one driver with unfortunate, mostly-cosmetic damage. I will enjoy them for many years to come.

Best to you and yours.

Thanks,
Brett
http://www.brettmc.com/

barricadedbob
 Infinity Kappa 9's sound terrible...HELP

These could need a very good amp that can deliver gobs of current, if we could see what the -phase angle graph looks like.

As they look to be an evil load to an amp at 35hz and again at 7hkz already, this is just the impedance plot of them, with a -phase angle plot as well combined they could look even worse.
 http://www.avsforum.com/content/type/61/id/49342/width/1500/height/1000/flags/LL

Cheers George 

Added a second Crown amp today...each speaker is now getting 1500watts (4ohms) of Class D power.  Three-dimensionality increased, bass presence increased, a bit
more ‘relaxed’ sounding in the middle.

Still think there is something wrong with my room as I have trouble resolving male voices and snares sometimes... Mid cohesion seems to be a problem.  Any ideas anyone?

Going to try the bridged Crowns on just the highs, engaging their high-pass filters and throw my Behringer EP4000 on the lows. Should really help the mid and high resolution. 

Mr. Legall and his organization appear to no longer want to speak with me (via email) since I alerted them they sent back polydomes with a crack in one of the mount plates. 

?

I will open up the 9’s at some point to check the wiring on the 9’s. Something is wrong. A Carver Signature Sunfire at 635watts should push them but doesn’t. The 9’s are too big for my room as well 12x17.

For now I am enjoying my 8’s and a Crown XLS1500 amp...amazing an amp I picked up for $75 generally sounds better than Adcom 555ii and the Carver. More three dimensional...Carvers highs were more pleasant, Adcom mid bass was tighter.

:-)

Personally, I wouldn't recommend the DS Tech Labs crossovers.  They totally disregard the original designs, with their crossovers.  In the case of the 9's, they turn a 5-way system into a 3-way.  The Semits and Emits are combined together, and the Polydome and Polygraph domes are combined together as well, with their boards.  You might as well buy Kappa 6's or 7's, and not waste your money.

Also, I wonder if the OP ever resolved his Kappa 9 issues?  Did Bill LeGall help out?  It sounded like the woofers might have been miswired too.  Out of phase?

dstechlabs on the Bay has new and improved crossovers for the Kappa 6, 7, 8 and 9. Prices range from $345, 395, 445 and 495 - with free shipping within the lower 48! These address and remedy the below-2 ohms impedance of the stock x-overs. Overall improvement in sound quality and a more amplifier- friendly load for the amplifier! If I owned any of the Kappa's I would buy a pair of these x-overs!

I know another issue some have had is no polyfill inside the cabinet. It makes quite a difference.

I own A set of Kappa 9 and when I rotate them into my main system ( powered by 2 Krell Fpb400cx) the bass slam is incredible 

Usually the issue folks have with the bass on the Kappa 9s is the the woofers are wired wrong. The should be wired in series. The positive wire will go to the + terminal of the first woofer then a short wire will go to the - terminal of the first woofer and then to the + terminal of the second and of course the negative wire will go to the - of the second woofer.

Hi All,

so so I have fallen almost all the way down the Infinity Kappa rabbit hole...  I am now the proud owner of Infinity Kappa 7's, 8's and 9's.  I started at 7, jumped to 9 and have kinda landed on 8.  7's do a bit better imaging as they are more simple 3-way, 8's are pretty close on the imaging but feel more effortless, airy, inviting. The Kappa 9's suck!  Honest.  I am using a Carver Sunfire Signature which I believe is 625watts x 2 into 8ohms and should be more than enough but I've also have used in bi-amp configuration a Behringer Europower Ep4000 which I believe is 2000watts x 2 into 2ohms (class H) and a Crown XLS1500 (class D) 775watts x 2 into 2ohms. Using this in a bi-amp configuration I can almost get the 9's to sound reasonable, but not good.  In general the 9's are all midrange (polydome mostly) and nothing else? Can anyone tell me what the steps are for troubleshooting the 9's?

The previous owner had the polydomes recovered with that silly transparent silicone material and I have since dropped in the 4ohm Western Speaker replacements and have swapped in some of my Millersound polydomes. Both of which are way better than the silicone Polydomes. The previous owner also refoamed the woofers himself.

So why am I getting no bass and all midrange? Am I correct that I am using enough amp to drive these?

...I just don't understand why the 9's sound so much worse than the 8's and 7's. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks! 

If the crossover netwok is in great condition you should notice that arnie designs all loudspeaker with tube eletronics. Most customers were satisfied when they used a tube amp

Hello

Mitch4t is correct, I had a set of Kappa 8's and then 9's years ago. I ran the 8's with Bryston 3b's bi-amped and the sounded great. Then I upgraded to the Kappa 9's with thies amp's and the speakers did not preform at all, they sounded withheld and a harsh top end. I did not know what was wrong with them, I heard and read that they need lots of power so I bought a pair of Bryston 4bST's and the speakers came to life, I had a large living room at the time so I also had to play with the positioning as well. they where definitely a superior speaker over the Kappa 8's. Then I bought a pair of Infinity Reference RS1b's and found out the same way that I had to upgrade the power again.
Before I sold my Kappa 9's I tried my Conrad Johnson Preimer 5's(200/ch-85lbs each)mono block tube amp's on the top end and my Perreaux 5150b (500/ch@8ohms-1000@4ohms-140lbs) on the bottom end, their was a big difference again in the sound from the Bryston 4bST's. The bass was aw-some out of them, the mid was smooth and the top was clear and sweet. So of course i demoed the 9's with the big amps to sell them.

I have found with these big infinity speakers, that you have to have a big rooms, position them away from the corners and form the back walls. You have to spend money on high power big current amp's, other wise you will not get the benefit's out of them.

Good luck and have fun with them,
Darin
Darin

Also.......you need a big room for Kappa 9. For small to medium rooms they are overkill.

The Kappa 8's are very good, but they are not in the same league with the Kappa 9....no contest. The Kappa 8's are much easier to drive. The bass, highs, midrange and dynamics of the Kappa 9 completely overwhelm the Kappa 8 if the rest of your system is up to it.

To get the best out of the Kappa 9's, you need to biamp them and have amps that are stable down to one ohm. I currently own the the Kappas 7,8 and 9, the Infinity Rennaisance 90 and the Infinity IRS Betas. I own four sets of of the Kappa 9 and will never sell them.

If you don't feed them lots of kickass power, they simply won't respond. Either something was already wrong with the speakers when you bought them or your amp doesn't have the testicular fortitude to get the job done.

I've biamped the Kappa 9 with two pair of Carver Silver 9t monoblocs (900 wpc @ 4 ohms) and they sounded great. I used a pair of Sunfire Signature amps (1200 wpc @4 ohms) to biamp them and they sounded great....and I've used two pair of Pass Labs X-600 monoblocs to power them and they sounded excellent. I used Audio Research LS-10, Reference 1, Ref 2 mk2 and Reference 3 preamps in front of them and the Kappa 9's sang like beautifully.

There is nothing wrong with the Kappa 9

Below are some links to Audiogon testimonials about how good the Kappa 9 sound to very satisfied owners.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1171199763&read&keyw&zzkappa=9

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1140795879&read&keyw&zzkappa=9

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1103047552&read&keyw&zzkappa=9

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1060960471&read&keyw&zzkappa=9

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1142533363&read&keyw&zzkappa=9

OK...I got this stright from Bills mouth at Miller Sound!

FIRST...Bill wanted to thank all his friends at Audiogon, for their support and recognition, especially Vinh Vu.

SECOND...Bill said the Adcom GFA-565 was more than sufficient to drive the Kappa 9's...provided they is ample line current and the ability to maintain that current.

THIRD...Bill said the Kappa 8's were...in general much superior speakers than the 9's, without all the fuss!

FOURTH...I should send Bill a digital photo of the woofers. If the foam was replaced and the proper foam was not used, that would considerably inhibit the performance of the 2 - 12" woofers in each cabinet.

FIFTH...Hold some wire leads to the binding posts, + to + and - to -, and lightly contact the + after the - is secure. The 2 woofers should move in the same direction at the same time. If not, they were wired wrong.

SIXTH...absolutely, unequivically, the woofers should be balanced!!! Due to the very narrow profile of the cabinet and it's unforgiving design, if the woofers are not balanced, the before and after sound will be noticeably different. The woofers should take a week or two after receiving to balance.

Looks like I have my homework to do now. Really appreciate everyones thoughts and comments and will post again as things develope!

The Kappa 8's sound great no matter what amp I use. The Kappa 9's sound a little muffled and offer no imaging, presence or clarity. I first heard the 9's driven by Adcom equipment in 1987 and that is what sold me on the combination, plus the overall economics. I do understand you get what you pay for as well!

I will contact Bill @ Millersound and drop them off if needed. I assume, until I speak with Bill that he has amps that will drive the 9's even for testing purposes.
If it is an amp issue, that is an easy fix. If it's a speaker issue, I can't offer them for sale in this state and I won't part them out. I maybe stuborn, but it's my nature to find out and know what the problem is good or bad.

In the mean time, I will check the other sites some of you mentioned and see if there's any feed back or experience with the combination of Adcom and Infinity, or more particulars about driving the 9's. Really appreciate everyones help and will keep ya posted.

Surprised the 8's sound that good with adcoms in the first place.. so obviously you found a rare match that works that smoothly with adcom amps and I would leave it that way.. however you will probably need far better amps for the 9's unless there is just something wrong with them. If keeping the 9's I would look at selling the adcom gear and getting a vintage or newer Mcintosh amp, should be no problems then.

I always liked the 8's better. Friend of mine bought the 9's after hearing my 8's and gave up on them because he couldn't find an amp to drive them that he could afford or liked. Yours might be broken. They might make good organ donors for the 8's.

I never got around to doing the surgery on the xovers. There is an RS1b active xover listed now that might help tame the 9's one ohm impedance dip. Paradigm X-30's could work too. Ask an expert. All I know is that the top of the line Infinity/Genesis are active biamped.

Call Bill at Millersound just outside of Philly (215-412-7700). He is THE MAN when it comes to Infinity speakers.
He will make yours sound better than the original.
Tell him Vinh Vu sent you.
Good luck.

If they are the 9.1 series 2, I have heard that they draw some serious low ohm loads. If your amp cannnot handle the draw that could add some strain on the system. There are a couple of Infinity Classics groups that have some good information available & some knowledgeable folks.
Here is one link; http://www.infinity-classics.de/infinity/index.htm
The one above is in German, but there is a english forum as well.
The other site is on Yahoo in their forums group.
Good luck, John

Did you sell the Kappa 8's yet...? I mean, why pull your hair out trying to get the 9s to sound good in your room if you like the Kappa 8s better?

Please explain what is wrong with the sound so we can advise. No highs? Loud scratchy noise? No bass? Just not to your liking or terribly distorted?