Hey, If you like 'em, that's all that counts. Just don't insult other audiophiles because they don't share your enthusiasm. |
mr m how did i insult you. |
Tomtab,
I completely concur with your assessment of Khorns, minus the "insults".
As large as they are, they can completely disappear in a room. Talk about loud, how about low level detail?
Glad you are in music nirvana.
Bill |
i did not mean to insult anybody out here in the high end audio community. i was just excited and when excited words just flow out of my mouth. |
Come on folks, Tomtab was not insulting anyone. He was just debunking the myths.
As many do know, the Klipschorn with the right amplification/source in the right room can sound incredible.
Bill
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thank you bill. you said it better then me!!! you hear stuff for so long and when put to the test its like what are they talking about. i heard a pair in 1980 and liked what i heard then. over the years things tend to change. well after all that time listening to this pair did not change my mind. they sound great. and because of the 90 pound weight of the parasound amp, im not changing it out anytime soon. just have to be careful with the volume knob, thats all |
I have owned many Klipsch Loudspeakers thd K horn has so much potential.
The critest xovers are a good starting point. parts are not evrn close to reference Xovers I have uses Munrorf s lot besides ultra expensive Deulund
A great little know hand made cap reasonably pticed from $$ Vacuum tube amp Co Rike of Germany Are very detailed superb in dynamics Path audio resistors.
Why Klipsch has not finished the Khorn is a big ? Titanium midsand tweeter
Like in thd Heresy. 18audio of Italy make Incredible compression drivers.
Hand tuned wood Throats for the compression driveris another minimal $ upgrade
Electra voice, or Emmenace make great 15 inch drivers even a dual woofer design I have seen. Putting black hole isolation treatmrnt for the cabinet truly removes any ringing of the cahinet. The beauty is you can do one thing at a time I have seen $20 k just in upgrade.
Go into a build. VoltI knows cabinet build but not much regarding driver s.
Way over priced should be 1/2 of what he asked uou dhould gsve s all Duelund Xiver for thst price.
Best of luck the room being part of the folded horn adds to thd fun.
We used to use a recording of thunder with a 6 watts tube amp with the lights out the dynamics were Exceptional !!
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Having worked in the high end audio industry for over 20 years, I can say that Klipschorns are some of the best and worst speakers that I ever heard. As willland said, it's all about using the right equipment with them.
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Back in the late 1970's early 1980's I worked at dealers which sold Klipsch speakers, I actually met Paul at an audio show in DC on year, very interesting guy!
I sold a lot of this generation of Klipsch speakers, not so many Klipschorns (people needed rooms where they could install them in the corners), but loads of Corwall's and Heresy's. I would characterize a lot of my customers as being discriminating listeners, many of them took their time and compared the speakers to other fine manufacturers of the day. I can't remember a single pair coming back for service, surprising, as they are "killer" rock and roll speakers.
Enjoy your Klipschorns! All that matters is that they put a smile on your face! |
Curb your enthusiasm,..yes khorns sounded good back in the day...having said that last time I checked they are worth $3500-4500 basically on the used market assuming original and in nice shape and there are tons of speakers on the used market that smoke them in all areas IMO |
really now??? smoke them???. i dont think so. thats funny, i have heard many a speaker in my time and although i have heard better never one that smoked them. i guess you have $100,000 speakers that are better then anything out there. i never said they were the best i heard, just darn good when set up properly and good equipment used. |
I am another K-Horn fan, but the right room and amp are critical to their enjoyment. I've owned three different pairs starting in the early seventies. Only one pair was successful in providing great sound, and that was because I built a house/room around them. I also found, as Paul himself taught, you needed a Belle unit to get the balance right. Filling the center makes all the difference in the world. I also owned a single unit in the late fifties, yes the mono days. The mono unit was married to a Mac amp. It made me a life long audio fan. Today my speakers are ProAc, all amps tubes. Great sound, great value, especially in the used market. Would I ever buy another pair of K-horns? Of course. I have been looking for the last ten years for a pair in Brazilian Rosewood, few were made and now the wood is banned from the US. I still have the Belles, in rosewood. They sound close to the K's. Enjoy the music, that never changes.
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funny to say that coolhunter. the first pair i heard in around 1980 was in brazilian rosewood |
"what I here is a speaker sounding better then just about anything else I ever heard",,,or maybe you haven't heard enough speakers,to be clued in..and BTW its hear not here,lol |
at what price point are the tons of speakers on the market that smokes them mr missioncoonery?? $500, $750, $1,000, $1,500.. you know, i always looked at it as there is always something better. are you happy with what you have. i also have a pair of infinity 1b's. I guess there are also tons of used speakers on the market that smoke them also!!! and my magnepan 20.7's. they are real crummy sounding. i dont know why i ever picked them up. you my friend are what we call a audiophile snob |
Seriously, who the hell has room for giant bass horn loaded monsters? I had Altec A7s back in the 70s (used for band PA mostly) and they really sounded cool for hifi, sort of a wooden tone that is really appealing…but now I have a large house and can't imagine removing furniture for something like those things…still, I'm glad somebody finds room for Klipschhorns…woody…kinda woody... |
Tomtab. Mish is a Raidho man. He's trolling right now. BEWARE! You're lucky you're not a B&W fan. He'd have you "on the ropes" by now. Lol |
"all I can say is you guys out there that think they suck. have your ears cleaned out and go listen again." "what I here is a speaker sounding better then just about anything else I ever heard"
Did you actually read what you wrote?..and im not "trolling" as ms mmm states. Im just pointing out that in the $3500-$4500 price range on the used market there are many many speakers that surpass the khorns in every aspect (but maybe not size)..speed,pace,transparence,imaging.If you have found nirvana in them more power to you..but your writing is just foolish at best,IMO |
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your so on top of it with those 802s,lol... |
Very nice speakers. With the right room and system, these like many others will definitely sing. Not many people have dedicated corners, but they still sound wonderful and look great. They are still being manufactured for a reason. Horns are very difficult. One definitely needs very clean power amps as these horn speakers will surely reveal the slightest system flaw. Which, I believe many people that didn't like them actually heard. System matching is critical. I would say that of all the audio equipment manufactured, speakers and speaker manufacturers have come and gone more than any other. Not Klipsh or these speakers. They are still here. That does say something. What I have difficulty understanding is why would some one post a negative response to the OP's post? If you don't like them, fine. Why say anything? The OP listed his views regarding the speakers. Why attack him? Also, I believe thicker skins are needed. No way did the OP insult anyone. This is the major reason why high end audio and especially discussions on forums like this are feared by many. They get attacked for no good reason. One of the things I have learned in my years is that, there is more than one right. Many people feel that because they are "right", no one else can be also. That isn't true at all. If the system and music makes you smile and enjoy life for just a little while, then more power to you. enjoy it. I have very fond memories of those speakers. I heard them a few years ago after decades and still found them very nice. Heck, I remember the Thiel Type A speakers my Uncle had a long time ago with Carver (yes Carver) electronics and smile when I think of them.
Be nice. Life is too short for negativity.
enjoy |
A few things.IMO Klipsch has been around and still going because they are not on the cutting edge. It's because they make a lot of low end junk guessing for the bottom line and there are buyers who still think Bose is high end along with B&W.Name recognition alone...now as far as bashing this original poster his comments came off like he's the know it all on speakers telling us who think or actually know they suck to go clean our ears out...and these are the best he's ever heard..rubbish..Such comments should be addressed. Like I said if this is the best he's heard or owned good for him.....but there are some who know his posting is...well you fill in the blank |
well, I guess everybody is not as fortunate as missioncoonery is to hear $100,000 speakers. im very sorry that my mediocre speakers are not up to his standards. 40 years ago if we had a 25 watt receiver and a $200 pair of speakers we were happy. now i guess we have to have the best of everything to be happy. and what the hell is wrong with me saying they are one of the best speakers i heard!!!!! nothing is wrong with it. i guess if someone dosent like your speakers and think they are junk how dare they. well i dont know what kind of speakers you have but i can tell you one thing--- I DONT LIKE THEM,THEY SUCK.. so I just addressed your comments. I can give it as good as anyone so keep it up. |
C'mon Mish, you're taking yourself way too seriously. Could it be this fellow found something in this hobby that really got him going? Something really exciting that made him exclaim? Who are you, me, or whoever be the ones to tell him he's wrong in what he heard. This hobby of audio is extremely complex but also is a lot of fun. My equipment is far from SOTA, but I still get one hell of a lot of enjoyment from my system. This is because I'm a music lover first. I don't know you all that well Mish. Can you say that about yourself. Being a music lover first. I'm not sure you can. The OP got a bit excited and maybe went a little over the top, but maybe he got a bit irritated by people saying Klipsch isn't any good. How do you feel when someone disses your equipment? I'm sure you've had it happen. By the way, I own Vandersteen, not B&W. |
and this is why I hate audio forum's. there's always one
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i love Vandersteen speakers, sound great!!! |
Tomtab,
Heck with the naysayers. This hobby is all about enjoyment. If you enjoy these speakers and they bring you happiness, you are much better off than the negative people who post their ugly opinions. |
im going to dig out my cerwin vega's... now they were absolutely the best speaker I ever heard. and who could ever deny that. my magnepans dont stand a chance against them. |
A buddy of mine had K-Horns driven by Threshold pre and power amps. A very nice setup indeed. We spent numerous hours building diffusers and absorbers trying to reach the holy grail. I never was able to afford K-Horns but I did own LaScala's, Heresy's and now Fortes (which I feel are about the best all around Klipsch made). I also have a set of Innersound Isis speakers which are a whole different ballgame. Your K-Horns are monsters playing on a field that few others do. D*mn everyone and their opinions. Enjoy those K-Horns! |
i would just like to say thank you to all who have supported me here. there is nothing more to say about this post so im done with it. thank you again |
Tomtab, I'm glad you like the speakers, I think you may not have meant to but pushed people off the track with the clean out your ears commentary. People love to get excited and defensive. I get what you are saying and I think its informative. |
I've heard many speakers in my time -- including many systems costing way over $100,000. I'm not one that hasn't been around when it comes to audio systems -- I'm no novice. I own Klipschorns and had considered making speaker "upgrades" at one point. Fortunately, I had an epiphany before I replaced those wonderful Klipschorns. I was able to acquire some quality tube amplificiation and the difference was astounding. Granted, there are some high-end solid-state amplifiers that do quite well (I used to use Jeff Rowland), but the tubes just took it to another level. Single Ended Triodes can be magical with Klipschorns. Long story short, system synergy is very important and when you get it right with Klipschorns, they're among the very best. The great thing about this combination is that I'm now listening to the music and not the system. Thanks to this setup, I'm enjoying music more than I ever have before. I get a huge smile every time I power it up and am always amazed at just how good it sounds. This is the first time I've never had the desire to upgrade at least something! What is great for me is that I am getting such amazing sound for such (relatively) little financial outlay. There are many consumers that believe performance is proportional to dollars spent. There are also those that want expensive things simply for others to see it. Vendors are of course aware and there are many available to take advantage of those situations -- in audio as well as other products.
P.S. Regarding the size of the speaker, if you have the corners for them they actually take up less space than most other speakers. Consider speakers that you have to pull out away from the wall -- it's not just the footprint. Klipschorns tuck into corners nicely and are out of the way. Visually, they're still big!
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yes,,, the remark about cleaning your ears out was a poor choice. its not me and I would not use that term again. but the good news now is that i found out there are a ton of used speakers on the market that just simply blow the khorns away in every possible way. so im going to get rid of them and start looking for one of them!!!. then i will have a speaker like my peers. and live happily ever after. |
...then i will have a speaker like my peers. and live happily ever after. Why the sarcasm brother? You found a pair of speakers that you like and from what I can glean from following this thread, there are more that agree with you than those who don't. Yet your letting the few that don't get to you. Personally Klipsch are not my cup of tea either and I would never have them. But that doesn't mean I don't respect your right to have and like them. Speakers are highly subjective. Live happily ever after with what you have - it's your system and you seem to have found the best speaker for you. Congrats and simply enjoy them. |
Do I agree with that, I own all tube amps and two Bedini solid state amps....I have very fine Wilson, Watt 7, Wilson Sophia's, Wilson Cubs, Altec A-5's , Pro-Ac's (3 pairs) and I buy two Klipsch La Scala's and its all over.......Everything else is for sale.......I'm already looking for a pair of Belle Klipsch's..........All for the love of music !!! Will
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sorry paraneer,, i was just busting. |
From my point of view(who cares, right), I thought Tomtab used quite a bit of tongue in cheek in his commentary and did not mean any real personal criticisms in his words. As most of you know, opinions on music, stereo gear, speakers, etc. are some of the most subjective items out there and we all should take that for what it is.
Tomtab,
Enjoy your Khorns to the fullest.
Bill
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Insults, can't spell and and absolutely no idea about punctuation. |
A high light of the days when I attended the national Acoustical Society meetings was a debate between Edgar Villchur (sp?) and Paul Klipsch during which Klipsch said "I don't care if you push it with a broom handle, you still have to move the air." Of course, we know who won that debate from a sales standpoint. I think stereo ended the days of the great corner folded horns.
My session was a bore in comparison. |
MR tabl10's, im sorry about the insults and my bad spelling. but you can be sure of one thing, i will probably never post here again. it sure as hell wasn't worth it. you folks just love to criticize and put people down and correct their spelling. and as if that wasn't enough put down their systems because yours is always better. we'll at least i enjoy mine. |
"Insults, can't spell and and absolutely no idea about punctuation."
tabl10s,
That is your contribution to this thread?
"i will probably never post here again."
Tomtab,
Like Paraneer said, "there are more that agree with you than those that don't".
Read the encouraging replies and don't let the discouraging replies get under your skin. Your gear, your speakers, your ears. That's all that matters.
Bill
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Tomtab. Had I forseen what my comment was about to unearth, I probably would have kept my mouth shut. I apologize.... |
mr_m, thank you. I never had a problem with your post bill, thank you again |
A high light of the days when I attended the national Acoustical Society meetings was a debate between Edgar Villchur (sp?) and Paul Klipsch during which Klipsch said "I don't care if you push it with a broom handle, you still have to move the air." Of course, we know who won that debate from a sales standpoint. I think stereo ended the days of the great corner folded horns. It's a testament to the engineering wonder and sonic impact of the Klipschorn that it's still made today, largely unmodified, 70(!) years after its initial launch - a feat I believe no other speaker model can rival. Mr. Villchur's acoustic suspension principle has had a lasting effect as well in many different incarnations, but its sales pitch of lower distortion at low frequencies has in effect been foreshadowed first and foremost by its reduction in physical size - an aspect that brings with it (in conjunction with much lower sensitivity) a set of new audible limitations. Many audiophiles not in favor of hornspeakers seem hellbent on pointing out their "colorations," all the while being oblivious to the shortcomings of direct radiating speakers that can be heard as an absence of core traits such as dynamics, scale, ease, speed and overall physical/emotional impact. One anomaly "popularly" comes in the form of an alteration/addition to a signal (horns), whereas the other goes as a negation (direct radiating speakers); what the latter lacks I feel typically weighs much more as a coloration than the former, so there we go. |
This has been a classic "my dad is tougher than your dad" thread.
Once again, people are forgetting that different people look for and are impressed by different things in speaker design -- just like in the car world. Some people love the big horsepower and off-the-line torque of the "muscle cars" from the 60s while others never get past the poor suspensions and drum brakes of those same cars.
Match the right speaker to the right listener and you have nirvana. Give the same speaker to someone else and they will only hear the parts they don't like.
It's a big hobby with room for everyone.
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This has been a classic "my dad is tougher than your dad" thread. I disagree...its about someone posting a thread stating if we disagree "go clean our ears out".It has nothing to do with my speakers are better than yours because I never went there at all..What the initial poster did IMO was tell the audio community that if we don't agree then we are wrong.It was what he said and how he said it that was offensive to me and I called him out on it...and for the record I said more than once in , the $3500-$4500 price range on the used market.No idea where this guy got I was comparing 100K speakers to his Khorns,must be a way to justify im wrong and hes right,who knows?.What I said was in the $3500-4500 price bracket which is what im thinking a nice pair of original un-moddified Khorns are worth on the used market there are lots of modern speakers at the same used market price that will surpass what he is "hereing".Im not thinned skinned, I just don't like guys spouting off stuff that really isn't true in the way he did it. |
Wow people need to relax a bit we're talking speakers here not politics! And tomtab you should throw some tubes at those bad boys, perhaps something vintage to complement the history like a Dynaco St-70 or old McIntosh or Fischer amp or something. Sounds like you're having lots of fun so rock on dude!
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Not sure of your point. Whether the debate starts with the opening salvo or a subsequent reply, the result is the same.
I consider myself a neutral observer in this matter. One of my best friends has K-horns, though I don't. It's been a long time since I needed their capacity for "loud", my house isn't a good fit for them, and, mainly, I happen to prefer other traits in speakers. However, for those who want the strong points of a horn and don't mind their drawbacks, they are a great choice.
My only point is this thread immediately devolved into a typical audiophile grudge match. Disappointing, but not much of a surprise.
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I recently
sold my Klipchorns after 17 years of pure enjoyment. I’m moving and downsizing,
and the new digs don’t have the corners I need. Prior to selling, I went on a
six month odyssey (a very enjoyable one, I might add) of listening to every
deserving speaker under $3,500 I could get to. I’ve auditioned Aperion, B&W,
Magnepan, Definitive Technology, NHT, KEF, Goldenear, Zu, and others – that’s a
range from A to Z!). Through it all, I came to the conclusion that the Klipschorn
is quite possibly the most overlooked and under-appreciated speaker out there. Used
Khorns can be had for as little as $1,500 to $2,000. In that price range, they
are very, very hard to beat. They have detail, efficiency, dynamics, and a
tonal balance that match up with any speaker out there, and a life-size sound
that is matched by few. At high volumes or low, the sound is spot on. The tone
is uniquely Khorn – but it’s always impressive. These are amazing speakers, and
don’t take a back seat to much of anything under $8k. There’s a reason they are
still viable after 70 years.
Many people
have never had the chance to hear a pair of Khorns. If you get a chance, take
it. You’ll quickly understand why they are so beloved by so many. My hat is off
to Paul Klipsch and his amazing Klipshorns.
(In case you’re
interested, in my search I ended up with Spatial Audio M3 speakers (check them
out. They’re pretty special) paired with 2 Goldenear Forcefield 4 subs. This
setup has an open, natural sound that rivals the Khorns. It is better in some
respects (especially soundstage and imaging depth), and not as good in other
respects. That’s the nature of speakers. But just let me say, don’t make the
mistake of underestimating the Klipschorn. They are an amazing speaker!)
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