Looking for phono preamp suggestions

Glad to hear Ron helped you out Newtoncr. He is a great guy and by the way answers his own phone and is very generous with his time. Totally down to earth, unpretentious and says he isn't an expert on everything, (but I believe he was one of the founders of Martin Logan and in the past has designed and built amps and preamps). Not a big expensive cable fan.

CLeeds - So what are the advantages of balanced inputs or outputs for a phono stage and what does it mean? At what output does it become more beneficial? Are they at the high end of the cost range? My cartridge has an output of .65, which seems kind of high for a MCC and my Sutherland Insight is not balanced (apparently - but the topic never came up), but tremendously improved the sound quality over my previous PS.

Hi

i suggest trying the new PS Audio Stellar Phono Amp. They have gone direct so you will pay approximately 50% less, and it can be returned within 30 days no questions asked. 
More importantly it is receiving rave reviews across the board from a number of the most influential and trusted audio writes out there including Michael Fremer from Stereophile. 
I would not make a Purchase based on the reviews of one reviewer, but when there are multiple reviews with similar findings, you should feel comfortable. 
Michael Fremer Uses Uber expensive DartZeel phono and powered amps and he conceded  the Stellar was comparable in the mid-range,  but not quite in the highs  and lows. Further he recommended anyone looking for a phono amp in any $$$ range should listen to it. 
Good Luck

Jerry 

Further to my previous response and suggestion to look at PS Audio. Attached is a link with a number of reviewers comments.

https://www.psaudio.com/products/stellar-phono-preamplifier/#tab-reviews

Just to be clear, I am not connected with PS Audio in any way. In my own system I am using Sutherland Duo and it is very good. However it is a nuisance to adjust for impedance and gain as the covers have to be removed and the dip switches adjusted manually. Whereas with the PS Audio it can be done with the remote that comes with it.

As for Ron, my experience in dealing with him echos the other respondent in this thread, he is a wonderful warm person. 
The PS is listed for $2499.

Thanks 

Thank you , 
I will check the ps audio 

Skypunk got it right.  I also now use a Stellar phono pre and I was actually shocked at the improvement over my Lamm LP2.1 Deluxe, costing 4 times as much.  First, it has XLR and RCA, and the PSA designer cared less about measurements and more about listener involvement and SQ and it very much shows. Not sure how the Stellar will pair with the Ayre, but I do know that right now in the phone preamp market, it is the best value and best sounding phono preamp (at least to my ears in my system) under $10-$15K.   

This discussion brings up a question about balanced vs single-ended RCA outputs for mm/mc preamps in general. I understand how a balanced topology works and why, and my whole digital path is balanced, but not the phono stage (my Rega table doesn't have balanced outs). Why are there relatively few balanced options for vinyl as compared to other components?

bleeds - what are the advantages and at what output voltage range can it help most. Are these phono stages inherently more expensive? It never came up in any conversation when I was looking for my phono stage. I'm thinking it is high end - big $$ feature.

For $16k, the Sutherland looks very expensive for relatively few cheap parts. 

My vote would go to an Octave Phonomodule! The big advantage beside it's sonic performance is that it can be configured as needed by the user! This implies approx. 10 different input modules, either RCA or XLR, either with step-up-transformer or not, either MM or MC. There are also different output modules available, either RCA or XLR, either with tubes (direct drive) or solid state. 
It can be further enhanced with separate "black box pre" ...."Black Box" is a kind of external capacitor which Octave is famous for especially for their power amps!
The design is more or less tubes (4) which allows to adjust for personal taste. There have been many rave reviews in the past, also in the US.
As it is a product from Germany it may be more difficult to get an audition in the US but it's worth to give it a listen IMO (I own one since almost 9 years and am very satisfied with the sonics and it's flexibility which can be changed if demanded)
Price starts at approx. 4400€ for the main unit and you can add your modules as needed!
My personal preference is the mc input module with step-up-transformer built in and switchable, it's also available with XLR termination! (the preferred Phono version by the CEO of Octave, Andreas Hofmann..btw!)
This is quite a good review although its an rather early one.  https://www.tonepublications.com/review/review-octave-phono-module-preamplifier/
Hope this gives you an additional option for upgrading your phono system.
Best regards from Austria

P.S. My system: Nouvelle Platine Verdier with Graham Phantom II, Ortofon Jubilee, Octave Phonomodule, ARC Ref.5SE, ARC Ref.75, ARC Ref. CD9 SE, Loricraft PRC 2 Vinyl cleaner, Focal Utopia Diablo Speakers, HMS Gran Finale Jubilee interconnects and power, Shunyata Andromeda speaker cables, 2x PS Audio P5, Synergistic Research Quantum Orange Fuses, Audiophile Base Starbase stands (UK)

@newtoncr:
I have forgotten to mention that I listened to a couple of phono stages before and also owned some of them .....incl. Aesthetix Rhea, ARC PH 5, PS Audio GCPH, ARC Ref.PH 2, Trigon, Jadis, etc. - they all didn't give me quite what you are looking for - sweetness/magic/romance .....the Octave Phono Module delivered exactly these things plus black background and less noise overall.....and tremendous flexibility!

Best,
Carlo

I have been using two phono stages from Whest Audio in England.  I have a customized PS30 RDT SE 2019 and it just blew several other phono stages I had been testing.  It's Single in Balanced out, but James may be able to customize the input if you were interested.  

I would suggest that you read his website customer reviews, there are hundreds and you can get the flavor of what each of these customers had been using prior to buying the Whest preamp, you'll get an idea of how these perform against many other preamps out there.

Agree with slimpikins5-  Whest stages are great. James is easy to work with. Very good VFM and provide a very clean, dynamic insight into what's on the record. I was a Titan Pro user for years but have recently upgraded to the MC Ref V - it's whole new world....

Don Sachs makes and excellent phono stage.  He builds them one at a time.  He is known for repairing vintage tube gear.  I would be willing to bet he would build you a Balanced phono stage.

Thanks everyone for your advices. I have decided on getting a van den hul , the grail Se version .
it seems to meet my requirements the most .Will report on how it sounds in my system soon . 
thank you 

Got the Lyra Etna lambda sl catridge to pair with the van den hul the grail Se phono stage ( which is current amplifying) . The match is perfect . Am in vinyl bliss . Also got the Nessie vinyl master record cleaning machine which makes vinyl cleaning a breeze. Thanks everyone in helping me attain what I intended to . 

I heard a very nice Doshi v3 used at a local dealer. I think the used price was around your budget. I believe that the version for sale was balanced, but that some of the v3 are single ended. It was out of my price range, so I only listened through it for about 20 minutes, but it was really quite fine.

@almarg

Re the Luxman EQ-500, I note that depending on the selection between the two LOMC gain modes it provides it presents the cartridge with a load impedance of either 40 ohms or 2.5 ohms. While the OP’s 0.3 mv cartridge has a recommended load impedance of >100 ohms, and an internal impedance of 32 ohms. Doesn’t seem like a good match in either gain mode.

Hi Al,
I’ve become interested in the Luxman EQ-500 but I’m bedeviled by these load impedance specs and hope you can help me to make sense of them. I imagine 2.5 and 40 ohms refer to the primary impedance (if that's the right term) of the step up transformers, which are the first things seen by the MCs, at least according to the schematic in the manual. But I can’t be certain, and Luxman provides little info on its SUTs.

The question for me is how these numbers translate into actual cartridge use.

Now, the EAR MC-4 also denotes its four step-up options by impedance values (again, making little sense to me; I always think it terms of windings and gain) of 3, 6,12, and 40 ohms. These correspond to ratios of 1:30, 1:24, 1:18, and 1:10, respectively, for EAR.
I’m tempted to conclude that Luxman is denoting similarly with these impedance values. The 2.5 ohm setting would therefore suggest something like 1:32 or so; 40 ohms would imply 1:10. The actual load impedances for the cartridges would then be something like 50 and 470 ohms, respectively, for MC-Low and MC-High. Am I getting warm??

But the gain steps in the Luxman don’t correspond precisely what one would expect from those to those SUT windings. 1:32 would typically add around 30 db of gain--more than the 27db provided by the Luxman MC-Low option. And if the 40 ohm setting translates to 1:10, or 20db of gain, that’s little more than the 19db offered by MC-High. Perhaps some gain is lost because of other aspects of the Luxman circuit?

If all this wild surmise is valid, then the OP’s cartridge with internal impedance of 32 ohms at 0.3 mV, set at the MC-High setting (if it’s a 1:10 SUT) would see 470 ohms as a load, which may well be fine. The gain might be a little low, though, at 59db (default 36 + 4 from gain knob + 19 from the SUT). Seem right?


I am tempted by this phono stage, at least for an audition, but first I’d like to be able to predict how it will work with various cartridges. You’re just the man to ask. Thanks in advance.


Bill