I should point out that I really admire Alon Wolf for his innovation. To often designers simply coat drivers with metal or diamonds, they create shaped cabinets but the don't address the real problems with cabinet resonance. His efforts represent true innovation and my hats off to him.
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The speakers that I tend to be most critical of are the ones who have done so much advertising and created so much hype....to my ears they just don't make music sound wonderful and magical and wonderful. They do cover the frequencies for sure. The bass sounds dead and over dampened......but if you like the sound of them go with them and you don't need to defend your choice.....surely not to me.... |
Oh my my. Has there ever been a more divisive speaker. I had enjoyed a recent audition of A3. For me they were probably 8-9 out of 10. I had played 7-8 different styles through them and liked everything except one album/ track (Back to Black). I found they had little bit of the laidback British Mid range, which I actually like. Now I am wondering if I should go back for an audition. Lol |
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@erik_squires Frequency response plots are hard to come buy, but the two I have seen kind of back me up. Not really, these are all gated measurements. Once put in a room, they will have SPL boost below 200hz due to room gain and doubling up on directivity pattern. Most properly designed loudspeaker will have a similar plot ( Look at the KEF LS50 or the Revel Ultima Salon2 for example). |
For better or for worse, listeners are definitely polarized about Magico speakers, in the way that they were polarized about Thiel 3.6 speakers way back when. I'm not that polarized, really. I think set up well Magico's are pretty nice, but the ones I have heard do have a certain sound to them. You should like it. Frequency response plots are hard to come buy, but the two I have seen kind of back me up. While Thiel was still alive, I'm afraid the treble tuning was not for me, just like Triangle, so I was unable to appreciate any of the famous imaging/phase matching features the brand was so known for. With all speakers, buy what you like. Best, E |
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E-S I 100% agree with you about the S1 Hearing it twice at shows confirmed how mediocre they are. They made the large orchestral Pictures at an Exhibition sound like postage stamps at an exhibition Using behemoth amplification (1000 watts into 2 ohms), they were so quiet and undynamic that only vocalists and guitars had any life to them. YUK! I was sitting about 8' away from them. As to the larger M and S lines (3s, 5s) I've heard about 15 times, sometimes they sounded dreadful (mushy, closed in) being driven by the likes of Jadis amps, or else sounding sterile with VAC amps or just weird sounding with guitars sounding like ukeleles (possbily poor choice of recordings). My wife and I have never experienced any joy listening to Magico speakers. The Rockports killed them using similar equipment. Speakers with less than "perfect" design and construction with some flaw(s) sound can sound great; hence, our love for von Schweikerts, Lumenwhites, lower end Focals, lower end Martens, older Legacy's and a host of other speakers that are just more enjoyable to listen to long term. Even Harbeths are fun to hear although they aren't the speakers I can live with. I would rather have large Magnapans than Magicos and I used to be an stat owner of Acoustat Xs, 2&2s and ML Monolith iiis. . |
My Magico Mini 2 and Q3 never sounded "chesty" to me or anyone who has heard my system. I listen to a lot of vocals. I do not have a lot of experience with the S series, having only heard the S1, S5, and S7 at dealerships, but the S5 mk2 at a reviewer's house sounded superb with no "chesty" sound on vocals. It seems like a strange artifact or coloration you heard. Have you ever heard a well set up pair of Magicos in a private home? |
I havent heard enough Magicos under optimal conditions to decisively comment but my guess is that the Magicos are revealing more of the true sound in the recording than other speakers you have heard. Most dynamic speaker stink with distortions some of which are the result of thin resonating cabinets. It takes some serious listening to get to the point where you can distinguish between pleasant distortions and more accurate reproduction. Problem with many is that they confuse preference over truth. I sincerely believe that the best speaker for the individual is the one that they prefer, but spend some time listening to Harbeths (as an example) and then go to a speakers with inert cabinets, first order crossovers, proper time alignment, sealed enclosures, etc and you get an entirely different sense of the music. Reproduced music should not sound homogeneous. |
Having sold, installed and set up dozens of Magico Speakers, from the A3 to the Q7. We have to disagree. When time is spent to get the correct setup distance from the back wall, from the side walls, the separation between the speakers as well as the amount of toe-in Magico is not a "chesty" speaker. This is not just our opinion, our room measurements do not indicate an emphasis on the frequency range that your referencing. Properly placed and optimized you will get incredible results. Anything less, look at the room and the setup. |
I love the sound of polypropylene cones. My first higher end speaker was Energy Pro 22 with a poly mid-woofer woven onto a rubber surround.I have to disagree. "Chesty" vocals usually result from the speaker cabinet. Doubtful that a plastic basket could produce this trait in any audible way. If your blanket claim was valid, Harbeths would be chesty, but I've yet to hear one that sounds that way. Another explanation for the Magico's character is that possibly, the chestiness is actually part of the recording and the Magicos damp it less than other speakers. Magicos tend to produce exemplary measurements with extremely low distortion, so what's the more likely scenario, that they have ill-behaved drivers, or that other drivers overdamp that character? IME, many artists sound a lot more "chesty" in live performances than they do in playback of their studio recordings. This isn't a defense of Magico, as I personally don't care much for their type of sound. |
@helomech I love the sound of polypropylene cones. My first higher end speaker was Energy Pro 22 with a poly mid-woofer woven onto a rubber surround. That said, my experience is that polypropylene cones almost always sound more rolled off in the 1 to 3 KHz range and more lively around 200 to 300 Hz (a more “chesty” sound). This gives them a “warm” characteristic versus pulp/paper which has a more lively sound. Both can sound good. In the case of Magico, from internal pictures it seems they use a large internal washbasin size plastic cabinet around the midrange. Ostensibly to limit the backwave from the woofer influencing the mid range. I suspect this plastic tub could add a warm chesty coloration - vinyl shower or vinyl bath tub will give vocals that kind coloration should you be inclined to sing in the bathroom. |
The problem is that polypropylene is non-fibrous and tends to store rather than dissipate acoustic energy so it vibrates characteristically - not a good material either for a speaker coneWrong. It and paper are the best materials for a speaker cone. Go listen to the Stirling Broadcast LS3/6 and then claim plastic is a poor driver material. They can likely embarrass whatever speakers you're listening with. |
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I guess my point is that the S1, being small footprint speakers, you'd kind of expect to want to use them in a small space, with something like a 60W tube or class-A integrated. Essentially what we might call an intimate system. IMHO, this wouldn't work at all. They are just as demanding as much larger speakers in terms of space and perhaps more so in terms of power. I did not mean to say you need a kilowatt amplifier for them, just that the normal calculus for small speakers seems off to me. |
@erik_squires The S1 I listen to was in a small room with the Spectral Stereo DMA 240, hardly a monster. I don't understand why you conclude that they need a big space and a big amp. I only heard the S3 in Munich show couple of years ago, it was a very impressive presentation, also with Spectral, I believe. |
@mheinze Honestly, there was a lot I liked more about the S1 than the S3. The S1, except for the congestion noted in my original post, has a glass smooth midrange to treble, and truly impressive dynamic range along with a very wide listening angle. The S3 I heard was not as smooth, and honestly a little strident as things got loud. (this may be dealer electronics, or acoustics but it was something I heard elsewhere in the showroom). The S1 remains a weird thing to me. It requires a lot of space, a lot of power, and ultimately sounds better at low listening volumes. I mean, it has the dynamic range, but the tonal balance is a bit cool, and encourages more late night quiet listening than R&R at full volume. And damn, it is inefficient. I really had hoped to hear that the S3 fixed everything, but honestly, in the short presentation I heard, if those were my only two choices in speakers, the S1 was far better. Again, I have no idea what contributed. It could have been the room, or cables. No idea. Just based on my 2 auditions, hands down the S1 wins. |
I spent few hours on Saturday listening to the S1 Mk2 on a full Spectral system. Truly was a treat, I couldn’t fault it on anything but full orchestral pieces (and the price, very expensive setup). It was amazing, the liquidity off these speakers is unmatched by anything I heard. Here is a link to a very good review by a very “snobbish” German reviewer ( https://www.magico.net/reviews/PDF/Magico_S1MkII_3-18.pdf ). Will not do a full translate but he basically concluded with that: "With her farewell from the listening room, the Magico S1 Mk2 I was unhappy. No wonder, because those who have heard the entire musical spectrum with these transducers in a clarity and bandwidth that can only be described as unbelievable, meets the blow when reactivating to familiar loudspeakers…” |
@shadorne I just realized I misread this: My guess is you are hearing the sound of the polypropylene plastic bucket that houses the midrange. My apologies, I thought you meant the driver basket. I had forgotten all about the bucket! Yes, but as @sciencecop points out, this isn't present in the S1. Assuming the same issue is in both, I'd say it's a crossover tuning issue. But that doesn't mean that the S1 and S3 don't have different causes of the same issue. Best, E |
Hey @sciencecop LOL, I suggest you call up Magico and offer your help... Oh no, I am 100% sure they are choosing their tonal balance carefully. If I hacked it would be to see if I could make the S line sound like the M line. :) To suggest that Magico does not use vocal and piano in their demos is pretty weak. Makes we wonder if you ever been to such a presentation. I’ve heard exactly one. At the Magico factory of the S1 Mk II. And yes, the vocal and piano was a lot shorter than all other music. Was it deliberate, do they do it all the time, I have no idea. But I present to you my sample size. The genius you are, you should know that the S1 being a 2-way, will have no midrange enclosure… I did not make that claim, so you’ll have to ask the original poster about that. And this is one reason why I doubt plastic in the mid range is the cause. However, it’s not just about material but construction. You can make plastic non-resonant at certain frequencies if the 3D construction is done right. What I find most interesting really is that the S, (a 2 way, shares this characteristic with a 3-way. Usually you have to compromise in some way with a 2 way and a 6" driver. Often you need to add a little extra bass somewhere to make it sound balanced, which is fine so long as you don’t directly compare it to a multi-way full ranger. So, when I heard the S1, I thought "Huh, that is an interesting compromise." But when I heard the S3 it made me think this is a design choice. Also, I’d discourage you from using cynical ad hominem attacks here.Save it for social media. |
@eric_squ God I am so tempted to hack a pair. :) If only I had a bazillion dollars to blow on taking apart a speaker whose crossover I’m going to completely rework. LOL, I suggest you call up Magico and offer your help... Well, it certainly IS in that range. Are you guessing about the Magico's midrange construction or is that known? The genius you are, you should know that the S1 being a 2-way, will have no midrange enclosure… |
More specifically you should say Magico S series speakers are chesty @folkfreak I defer to your experience. It's true, I've only really heard the S series, but your progression and description sounds like a well planned product development strategy. God I am so tempted to hack a pair. :) If only I had a bazillion dollars to blow on taking apart a speaker whose crossover I'm going to completely rework. What a waste of money that would be! E |
ctsooner Many speakers are lacking in the power range (lower-midrange). The Vandersteen are notoriously weak at that region (Even JA concluded his review of your speakers with: “I remain puzzled by that lack of lower-midrange energy…”). So yes, real music does sound full at that area, and if you are not used to it, objectively “properly design” loudspeakers, like the Magicos may sound “chesty” (or should we say “full”) to you. Eric, To suggest that Magico does not use vocal and piano in their demos is pretty weak. Makes we wonder if you ever been to such a presentation. |
