Need advice for bi-amping or tri-amping Sonus Faber Aida speakers

stewartgr

How can I tri-amp when my preamplifier only has two sets of balanced outputs to amplifiers?

If you want the full benefit of biamping or trIamping, you'll need a crossover after your preamp to feed your amplifiers, so your preamp would only need one set of outputs.

OP:

You’ll need a splitter or amps that have inputs and outputs. Parasound often have these.

The issue I think SF is concerned about is having equal volume. While there is a convention that power amplifiers have ~ 26 dB of voltage gain, it’s not a law and amp makers may vary from it, so if you plan on mixing amps you would need a way of turning the loudest amp down relative to the other 2.

Also, worth checking that the + and - pins are not shorted internally before using multiple amps.

You asked for advice. All I have is an opinion. so I’ll share it and feel free to ignore it: unless your amp is inadequate, it is generally a waste of time.   

I will admit that using an SS amp on the bass might free up your tube amp.

Jerry

One more thing to consider, if using a tube preamp, it may not like driving 3 amps at once.  Check the minimum impedance.

Very nice system, speakers. This is a very exciting question. Audio Research with Sonus Faber is magical!

It would be great to see your system as it is today. Makes it much easier to make relevant comments. There is a place under virtual systems to post photos and ID your equipment.

Lots to consider. I have had both the Audio Research Reference 160m monoblocks and the Reference 160s for over three years, and I run Sonus Faber Amati Traditional. The monoblocks throw a deeper and wider sound stage. They are a must for the mix.

I would definitely use all Audio Research amps. You do not want to combine amps with different character, that would be a horrible thing to do. Obviously the ideal would be three sets of REF160, monoblocks. That would simply be amazing. Just the thought is so amazing… if you can afford it… simple talk directly to audio research about the ideal combo… well, do that under all circumstances.

Talk to ARC… but you might end up with a REF80 for the high frequency, REF160m monoblocks for the midrange and use your REF 160s for the bass. If that is too expensive… maybe just Biamp? use your REF 160 for the bass and add monoblocks for your mid/upper range. My feeling is this last combo would get you the extended sound field and much more punch and clarity.

Also, Audio Research will be releasing their Referece 320 amp soon, this might play into the picture.

Where do you live… I’d love to hear your system before and after. I live outside of Portland, OR.

There can definitely be some benefit to bi or tri-amping. There can also be significant cost involved, but doesn’t have to be expensive.

A lot of folks will argue that an active crossover is the only way to bi-amp.  There are pros and cons with both. If the passive crossovers are well designed and sound good in your current setup, they will sound good in a bi-amp setup too. SS amps tend to sound a bit more authoritative for bass, but don’t necessarily have the magic midrange of a good tube amp.

One of the simplest ways to get started is to add a solid state integrated amp to the woofers. (Horizontal bi-amping). Split the source signal, and adjust the output to match the mains or suit your tastes...you can fine tune that level thanks to the separate volume knob of the integrated amp. You can pick the quality level to suit your budget, and without needing to be overly concerned about mid and treble clarity.

Freeing up the main amp (ARC in your case) from the responsibility of driving the heavier mass of woofers is beneficial, and should help improve clarity a bit, but the amp still sees a full frequency signal. If you want to, down the road you can improve clarity even more by adding a simple inline high pass filter between the preamp and amp so that the amp doesn’t even see the lower frequencies. Lots of stuff online about DIY, or you can simply buy one, or go with an active high pass crossover for the main amp. Tons of options.

Obviously you can get as carried away as you want to, but it can be pretty simple to give it a go. You can investigate a second matching amp for the mids/tweeters.to do vertical bi-amping or tri-amping, Vertical bi-amping can offer similar separation benefits as monoblocks, but with the added benefit of a separate channel for mids and another for the tweeters.

If you really want to get carried away, you can bypass you speakers passive crossover and go fully active, but that can be pretty invasive, and can pose a slew of other problems, so proceed with caution, and understand what you’re getting into before attempting that.

IMHO, most of the benefit will be achieved with Bi-wire/amping. The theory is to keep the (relatively) powerful back wave, generated by the woofer, away from the delicate mid/treble signals. Tri-wiring is kind of overkill.  

Thanks everyone! I think I’ll start off by bi-amping. I like knotscott’s idea of adding a solid state integrated amp for the woofers to match volume levels unless I can find some solid state monos with the same gain as my ARC 160M’s (gain of 25.5 dB into 8 ohms).

ghdprentice, I’d like to use all ARC amps but I’ve read that I really should use solid state amps for the woofers and ARC only makes tube amps. Hopefully I can find a dealer to let me demo both a second pair of ARC M160s and solid state amps for the woofers but the system is at my home in Lafayette LA and there are no nearby dealers. Or maybe the ARC Ref 320s for the woofers, but their website said they were supposed to be released in 2022 so I’m wondering when they will be released with their recent financial trouble. I’ll try to post photos of my system.

Once I can afford it I’ll try tri-amping, probably with appropriate hi-pass filters for the mids and treble. Or maybe I’ll be satisfied with bi-amping. 

FYI there’s a good YouTube video by PS audio which concludes replacing good internal passive crossovers (which the Aidas have) with active external crossovers is not worth the trouble.

@stewartgr Wrote:

Need advice for bi-amping or tri-amping Sonus Faber Aida speakers

Passive or active bi-amping should not be undertaken without first asking the manufacturer’s advice.

See article below:

Mike

Making the Case for Active Crossovers vs. Passive

Excellent article, thank you Mike!

👍

Mike