Appreciate the post. Streaming is my sole source of playback now. I will give the MUON system look
I appreciate your thoughtful and well considered posts. For those who haven't had the pleasure to communicate with you off line, Bill has no agenda or bias other than great sound. Continued good health and musical enjoyment.
Thank you for posting your impressions about Muon filter. I am patiently waiting to try Muon Filter and Rubicon Ethernet Switch in my system. There is a brand new review on Muon published earlier today,
@lalitk and all reading this thread. The Muon ethernet system combined with the Network Acoustics Rubicon switch has me transfixed in so many ways. The combo deliverers a fluidity of sound that is so pure and enjoyable. Instruments and voice sound so pure and real. Now my music has more dimension to it. This combo has finally made me forget about high end CD transports because I now know my streaming is on par or better based on my listening tests.
I understand the Muon system and Rubicon switch represent a significant financial investment. For me the two pieces are indispensable as they provide the rest of my system with the opportunity to sound magnificent. I invest too much listening time and money in my system to not feed it with the best digital signal possible. It all starts before your server or dac and great sonic improvements can be realized here. The Rubicon switch can only be special ordered right now as they are gearing up for more production as I understand.
Yes, I am completely thrilled with my system and music as the Muon ethernet filter and Rubicon ethernet switch have increased the fun and engagement level of my listening sessions.
I use these products with an Innuos Zenith 3 server/streamer. I no longer use my lifetime Roon membership because the Innuos Sense software sounds so much better to me. Not even close right now. This is true for Innuos gear and may not be the case on non-Innuos servers. I am sure Roon can and does sound fantastic on other platforms.
Thank you for taking the time to post your feedback. I’m not at all surprised by your impressions as I know exactly how good…nah, scratch that, how awesome streaming can sound given the proper ‘noise’ treatment to the digital bits or packets before reaching your server/streamer or streaming/DAC. I have said it time and again, keep it simple and sane and you will be rewarded with amazing streaming experience that can easily rivals or bests the CD and Vinyl playback. And more importantly, it is the sum of whole not just one component in your system. Everything matters.
I’m elated for you!!!! Hopefully someday I get to hear your system.
One question, did you test Rubicon switch with stock wall wart or LPS? I have not received my Muon / Rubicon streaming system yet. Rich knows I want to hear them in my system together, so he will send them my way whenever possible.
I see. I used an Ifi Elite power supply with Nogami power cord on it. I need to repair a Keces P8 LPS I purchased used that was damaged in shipping. I use it on my modem, but the second output was damaged.
I am also making my own upgraded DC power cords to power the switch and modem. They are also very, very important.
Hi Bill, I am glad you have found your streaming nirvana with the Network Acoustics Muon ethernet system combined with their Rubicon switch. Any thoughts you can share on how your current set-up compares with your trial of the top level Tron Atlantic DAC that you enjoyed in your system a couple of months ago? I assume you were using the Muon system and English Electric 8Switch with the Tron, but not the Rubicon, correct?
The iFI Elite power supply is pretty darn good. Are you planning to use Nagomi with LPS feeding the Rubicon? I’m very curious to learn how much Nagomi is contributing towards what you’re hearing vs a PC in $500 range? You know where I’m going with this…I’m currently using Zavfino Majestic MK1 to power up my JCAT OPTIMO DUO LPS. Have you compared any other PC with LPS before settling with Nagomi?
I am actually using the Muon with the Rubicon! Sold the EE 8 switch. I had to have the Rubicon as it was much better. Oh well. I still have my Mojo dac as I could not spend the $17,000 on the Tron 😕. Maybe some day?
I compared three cords on the power supply. My DIY power cable made with Duelund 12 gauge conductors sounder better than a generic. Unfortunately, the Nogami sounded better than my very good DIY PC and made it clear to me that the power cord matters greatly on LPSs. I wish it were not so. It was apparent within a handful of notes. Try it yourself and find out in your system.
Tron makes some very special gear. I have had the opportunity to hear their Atlantic dac, Atlantic 300b Int amp, and Converence preamp and stereo amp. All of these pieces have a special purity which is unmatched in my experience. Tron is all about purity and realism and all his designs share this magic.
Very excited to read this thread. I enjoyed all the info that Bill shared with me around the first of the year on the Muon filter and have thought about comparing it against my ER + SR4T LPS setup. I like the fact the Muon is passive so you avoid the power cable and LPS. But am also intrigued about the Rubicon switch. I wish there were more info on it currently, but will remain patient and hope that both @grannyring and @lalitk will post additional feedback on them soon. I've been mostly quiet lately as my system is sounding amazing; but one occasionally wonders about improvement! I want to take the Network side of my system as far as it can reasonably go without breaking the bank. Then I can focus on other things.
@lalitk It will be interesting to hear what you think about the difference between the Majestik Mk1 and the Nagomi. And of course, the difference between the M12 Gold switch & JCAT OPTIMO DUO LPS vs. the Muon filter and Rubicon switch.
Like you, I’ve been very happy with my system. My digital streaming / network has been stable going on 8 months (last addition was LPS for M12 switch). I hear you on the improvements part…never a dull moment here. I have been tinkering with mineral based ‘grounding’ and the improvements are nothing but stellar (more boxes on the way…lol).
Back to NA switch and filter, I am anxious to try Rubicon due to its unique and few ‘first of its kind’ design attributes. May be @grannyring can give us a peak inside his Rubicon switch 😉
I understand that may be a "step to far"!; but maybe @grannyring can tell us what the Rubicon looks like. Like one input and multiple out, or one input and one output, etc. Similar box as the Muon, etc. Having someone you trust helps in the decision-making process, I've never been accused of being an early adopter and so I find this kind of info very helpful.
Would be very interested in hearing about your grounding boxes and how they are implemented in your system. Do you have a thread on that? We can take offline if you prefer.
I have added the ground boxes in my virtual system. Let’s take it offline if you’re interested in learning more about them. They are definitely worth exploring as their impact in your system is far from subtle.
I received my Network Acoustics Rubicon switch, Muon ethernet cable and Muon filter. I don’t want to venture into shilling but if your budget allows and your system is up to it, I am unaware of a better solution. Gobsmacked!
Thanks @grannyring for bringing this to our attention.
I am glad to hear you’re ‘Godsmacked’ by the improvements from Rubicon/Muon. Would you mind outlining components in your digital streaming? I think it would be beneficial for readers to fully comprehend such high level of commitment.
An Uptone Ether Regen, Audioquest Vodka ethernet cables.
Mesh-> Totaldac Ethernet Filter/Cable->Network Acoustics Rubicon->Network Acoustics Muon Ethernet Cable->Network Acoustics Muon Filter->Totaldac D1-Tube-Streamer-Mk3
Innuos Zenith Mk3/FTA Sonope USB(sold)
Roon Nucleus + (interim)
Grimm Audio MU1(en route)->Shunyata Sigma v2 AES/EBU->Totaldac D1-Tube-Mk3
Thanks for taking the time to post your system. That’s quite a system you got there…and I can certainly imagine the ‘upgrade’ from Uptone ER. I believe Grimm’s MU1 is going to be a game changer for you, I heard nothing but high praises. I own a similar device with Roon Core and End Point integration and it has ended my pursuit for best streaming player under $50K (including SOTA DAC).
Thanks for that. I also have an UpTone Audio ER + Paul Hynes SR4T LPS and good Cat 8 Network cables.
Are you using an LPS with the Rubicon or the supplied wall wart? If LPS, are you using an upgraded power cord too?
I also forgot to ask how long have the NA products been in your system? I know that the ER got better over the course of a month and so did the LPS.
The Rubicon actually ships from Network Acoustics with the well regarded iFi iPower Elite. As for power cables, I tried a few I have on hand (TelluriumQ Black, Audio Note ISIS) and I cant tell them apart, which is not the case on other gear I have. So I believe a good power cord is fine but I dont believe it makes a big difference.
Correct regarding the Han B review, differences were minor but its also telling that when you look at what he is using today in his review system, he has the SOTM switch and the Muon in front of the Grimm MU1. Ive always been a fan of cleaning up a mess at the earliest step in a chain that I can. I also wonder how resolving his system really is. Ive heard the Ayre although not with his Audio Physic (I once owned a pair of his new reference speaker, PMC, and they are quite good but they lean a little more toward the pro audio side for my tastes.) speakers, Ive also heard Audio Physic speakers and was never tempted by either. Horses for courses, belt and suspenders. I also have a dedicated line and yet I also have a power conditioner. Oh well, I guess there isnt any real issue to feed the MU1 too clean an ethernet signal LOL.
Yes, out of the box, the Rubicon/Muon was quite shrill to my ears…that settled down by the next morning and the following day of constant signals running through, it blossomed. I hate that shyt like breakin that I have a problem believing in is real but it is. Deniers can keep treating the common cold with leaches and bloodletting for all I care…I know what I’m hearing.
All I can say is there was an immense difference between the Rubicon/Muon vs the Ether Regen but there is certainly a large price differential that must be considered by many. If you are chasing the brass ring, the Network Acoustics gear is legit.
I wasn’t trying to downplay the legitimacy of NA gear when I reiterated Hans B initial impressions of minor improvements with MU1. I was taken aback by his comment about superior noise rejection capabilities of MU1 Ethernet board :-)
I was one of the early adaptor of ENO filter system and their USB III cable so I know from experience that NA makes great products. In any case, I am looking forward to your impressions about MU1 in your system.
The EtherRegen was not as good as the lower tier Network Acoustics ENO filter in my system. Not close to be frank. Plus the Muon is on another level vs the ENO.
I tried using the EtherRegen in addition to the NA ENO and found it was not needed. I sold it. That is my experience.
No worries, I didn’t take it that way. I’m actually thinking more long term. I would prefer to purify at the earliest possible point.
I concur on the Ether Regen. Its a great device and is really quite an achievment. For its price, the ether regen does a terrific job of integrating a clean minimalist switch and a cleansing of the ethernet signal. I have been pleased with its effects. What Network Acoustics has accomplished though is a head scratcher…how much MORE was capable is confounding. Does it raise overall system performance by 5%? 7%?
I did NOT try the Muon following the ether regen. I kindof came at it from a slightly different angle than Grannyring. I actually compared the Rubicon vs the ether regen and found the Rubicon was transformational in comparison. If you think about it, thats really what we are talking about. The apples to apples comparison is between those two. The Rubicon with the ether regen next in the chain there was no discernable difference. The ether regen with the Rubicon next in the chain was radically better. So in my opinion, I believe the Rubicon does everything better than the ether regen. You have to decide if the 4X cost of the Rubicon vs the ether regen is worth the additional investment. The Muon takes all of those improvements up exponentially.
In summary, I would have been thrilled with just the improvements that the Rubicon provided. The Muon takes it to another level of improvement. I would use the old example that these are each the equivalent to a component level upgrade…but they are components right? LOL.
“I would prefer to purify at the earliest possible point”.
I couldn’t agree with you anymore. A high quality switch + filter in digital streaming are no longer considered accessories, IME they are essential components in a high resolution system. As you said, if your system is revealing enough, the improvements from the addition of high quality switch and filter are transformational. I experienced the same transformation when I stepped up from ENO to Telegartner M12 Switch Gold with JCAT Optimo 3 Duo LPS.
Speaking of how much MORE, I have been strategically introducing mineral base grounding devices from Entreq and Acoustic Revive in my system. They’ve managed to unlock another layer of resolution and transparency.
Prior to introducing grounding and Telegartner switch, my system sounded pretty darn good but this is a whole new level with greater dose of ease, tonal density and richer mid-range. IMHO, these qualitative differences small or large in the context of your system simply enrich our musical bliss and soul!
If you like jazz, cue up WHO CARES? by Scott Hamilton / Andrea Pozza. Enjoy!
@ghasley Would love to hear your impressions of the Grimm MU1, both with and without the Network Acoustics gear, once you have a chance to settle in with it.
I have loved the Grimm MU1 digital output (through a Black Cat TRON AES cable) into a number of dacs, from totaldac, Mola Mola and Nagra (tube, not classic). Part of the MU1 appeal for me was the promise of simplicity...my hunch is that some ethernet cleaner-uppers may still have a sound impact, but for me the music sounds so good without the add-ons (MU1 is fed with a no-frills Supra ethernet cable), that simplicity won out and I lost interest in further network adjustments. My choice of ethernet de-junkifier (Gigafoil) became obsolete, to my ears in my system (with the Grimm, I couldn’t tell a difference with or without the Gigafoil, where formerly it was a positive addition).
Hey @grannyring great post! And timely as I’m venturing down this path. I just bought the “eno Streaming System” to replace my etherRegen. It hasn’t even arrived and now you make me want to replace it with the muon 😂
have you or anyone cracked open the eno to see what it’s made up of? Couldn’t find one image on google.
Got my eno on Friday.. just basic listening so far and it is at least >= the ER, but the bonus no matter what is it's passive, no power and doesn't get hot like the ER where you can make toast on it.
BTW - I open everything I buy.. here is the eno, pretty good profit margins here, but it works, so that's what we are paying for.
FYI Rubicon not available for awhile. Their email response:
”Rubicon has been very frustrating for us. We put a lot of effort into making it work so well, but then the supplies of our essential parts dried up and we can no longer deliver it.