Phantom Supreme to 4Point-14?

I'm considering it. Who's done it and what did you think? Members who've heard a head-to-head comparison are also welcome to chime in.

The turntable is an SP10R in Artisan Fidelity plinth. Cartridges at this point are an mainlyan A90 and Benz Ebony TR, but I'm planning for a MSL Gold or Platinum sometime down the road.


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@wrm57 I've not directly compared these 2 tonearms BUT I'd suggest the original 4Point 11" over the 14" IMO. Yes have heard both and even the 4Point9 may be a "better" buy than either the 11" or 14" if you don't change cartridges often and don't need the VTA adjustment on the fly. Yes the VTA adjustment is easier on either the 11" or 14" but once set on the 9" it's fine. Another alternative, since the 4Point14" sells for between 14 - 18K depending on options, save your $$$ for the Safir, it is far superior sounding in our view. Yes again I've compared the 4Point9 vs 4Point11" vs Safir all on a Stabi R.

(Kuzma dealer disclaimer)

@sksos , thanks for your insights. I don’t think the 11" would be a good fit on my SP10R plinth. Because of the Technic’s motor housing, my 9" Graham, at 217.4 mounting distance, just *barely* fits, and its almost too far forward for safety when the arm is at rest. The Kuzma’s 212 mounting distance is even tighter, and would require the arm to be shifted even farther toward the front, if it would fit at all. (I’d have to drop in a new armboard and measure it out, using a template of the base, to make sure.) But even if it does fit, the 11’s offset pivot and much longer Eff length would hang the cartridge off front of the plinth. Yikes! Hence the 14-incher, which is the Kuzma of choice for my turntable.

I’ve read good things about the 9", including Fremer’s opinion that it is the best-sounding Kuzma that is not the Safir. And, as I outlined above, its 212 mounting distance just might fit without risking the cartridge. And it’s a relatively great deal. But I’m one of those people who feels the ability to change VTA frequently and repeatably is crucial for proper sound. Having listened to Grahams for 20 years, I’m spoiled there. I know the 9 has precisely adjustable VTA, but it is nowhere near as easy and repeatable as the Graham, or even the 11 or 14 Kuzmas, from what I can discern. I don’t absolutely need it on the fly, but I do need it to be quickly and easily set to predetermined levels for varying LP weights (140g, 180g, etc).

If it would fit, and if it could satisfy my VTA needs, and if I can sell a kidney on eBay without missing it, I’d love the Safir. Not sure it’s possible to satisfy all three criteria. :)

No, still haven’t bought the MSL. I’m thinking about the best order of purchase, arm or cartridge. Obviously, they’ll need to compliment each other but I’ll need to space them out.

@wrm57 now I understand, have not had the pleasure of using a SP10R so not aware of the best tonearms to use with it. But based on your description then the 4Point 14 does seem to meet your criteria. Since the Safir uses the same template as the 4POINT9 then even that isn't an option. As you correctly stated either the 4POINT9 or Safir, while you can adjust VTA it's no where as easy or repeatable as either of the other 2 kuzma arms. Myself this isn't as critical although many yrs ago I too would adjust VTA based on the vinyl thickness. 

Sorry still can't tell you the differences between the 2 arms from your original post.


FWIW, so far as I know, the SP10 mk3 and the SP10R have identical relationships between the platter location and that of the surrounding rectangular escutcheon, and I had no problem mounting a 10.5 inch Reed tonearm on my mk3. So I don’t know why you think the 11 inch Kuzma would not work.

Lewm, I'm not sure which Reed you have but the 10.5's I've looked at have mounting distances of around 231mm or 251mm. Both would be fine for the R. The 11" 4Point mounts at 212mm, however, which scoots it up next to the motor housing, maybe too close, and forces the pivot it to be at 3:00 or so to the spindle, maybe lower. This would put the cartridge, at the end of that long arm, a little beyond the front of the plinth when in the armrest. The salient point here is that although the 4Point is 11 inches long, it mounts like a rather short 9-inch arm, which is a challenge for the SP motor housing.

Thanks, I hadn’t been aware of that oddity about the 11" Kuzma. I guess I should have been alerted to it because you did mention the mounting distance in an earlier post. But if the distance from the pivot to the spindle (aka "mounting distance") is only 212mm, how does it end up being 11" in effective length? I will have to look at some photos.

OK, I did find photos.  When you quote mounting distance, are you referring to the necessary room needed to clear the very large diameter VTA tower, which is larger than those used by Triplanar or Reed?  So in your parlance, the mounting distance is not equal to the pivot to spindle distance, in that case.

For the 4P-11 and 4P-14, the P2S measurement is very different from the mounting distance because the pivot is located on an outrigger platform. Mounting distance is where you drill out the armboard and mount the arm base. This outriggered pivot is what enables an 11 inch arm to fit where a 9 would usually go, which is an ingenious boon to most turntables but not our our SPs because of that big square escutcheon. The 4P-9 and Safir, however, mount at the pivot like many arms.

I would not go with the 14. Go with the 11. I do thing it is a better arm for many cartridges than the Graham and certainly a lot better value. My personal favorite is the 9. I understand the 11 and 9 won't fit. I own the MSL Signature Platinum and the 14 will be too heavy for it without a lot of damping which puts added stress on the cartridge. Take a look at the Schroder LT. It has the right spindle to mounting hole distance for your table and it is a tangential tracker that does not require anti skating. Very cool design. A 12" Tri Planer would work and a 12" Reed 2G would work. There is not much wrong with the SME V12 either. 

Thanks @mijostyn , that's good feedback. As you were you posting, I drew a scaled template of the 4P mounting base and broke out my UNI P2S tool. It turns out the 11 (or 9 or Safir) will fit on the back armboard--just barely. And because the plinth has a lot more area to the right than in front, the 11 would not hang the cartridge out over the edge if its mounted back there. Very interesting.... I have an Ortofon AS309S back there now for SPUs and like it well enough. But any of the Kuzmas would be a serious upgrade, I'm sure, and I can run SPUs on another turntable with my SME M2-12R. Plus, I'd keep the Graham on the Technics in the front position for daily drivers, etc.

So you like the 9 more than the 11? You don't miss the easy VTA adjustment?

I'll look into the Schroeder. I owned a standard Triplanar for years but sold it in favor of another Graham. Is the 12 significantly better?

Much to think about, all of it good!

Mijo just wants someone, anyone, to live out his dream of owning a Schroeder LT. Yes, a 12 inch TP will be different from a 9 inch TP; its effective length will be 12 inches. The possible sonic differences with any particular cartridge are possible to predict in advance.


As @mijostyn stated, sometimes I also prefer the 4Point9 vs the original 11" but it is a close call. Yes for the $$$ the 4Point9 is the better buy BUT if you are into adjusting VTA per different LP's then DON'T buy the 9" it's a PITA to adjust frequently and not easily repeatable IMO. Yes once set it's fine and it can be set precisily but takes a LOT more effort than the VTA adjustment of the 11". 

Thanks, Steve. Yeah, I'm afraid I'm one of those guys who adjusts for different LPs. Just can't help myself. And if I didn't, I'd just sit there thinking I was maybe hearing incorrect VTA. Audio nervosa takes many forms.

I spoke too soon. It looks like the 11 won't fit in the back position after all. My rough modelling shows that the headshell will not clear the tonearm installed in the front position. Bummer.

I don’t really understand being satisfied with incorrect VTA. We go to all the trouble of precisely aligning cartridges with uber-precise tools, getting cantilevers just right, and dialing in VTF to two decimal places. Some use devices to nail azimuth and eliminate crosstalk. Why? Because it makes an audible difference. Some even set SRA at precisely 92% with digital microscopes. Why? Because it makes an audible difference. If we concede that precisely 92% SRA is what the physics demand, and what our ears can and do hear, then how can we be satisfied when we change that 92% by plopping on an LP that changes the angle and the sound? I mean, when I go from a 120g to a 180g and forget to adjust VTA, I hear it and get up and change it. And I’m not saying I’m some sort of golden ears.

I know we all do this hobby in different ways, and I certainly I don't mean to disparage other approaches. But here I am in mine, for better or worse, and so far it has required easy VTA adjustment.

FWIW. the Holy Grail for SRA is 92 degrees (an angle), not 92%. This was an estimate of the angle made by the cutter head and based on the notion that one wants SRA to exactly replicate the angle of the cutter head when playing an LP. Some gurus have disputed the notion that all studios used 92 degrees at all times. Others have suggested that the optimal SRA would also be slightly different for different stylus shapes. I DO require easy VTA adjustment, but I don’t get caught up in the 92 degree angle worship. I don’t adjust VTA for each LP. And yet, I think I am a good person nevertheless. There’s too many reasons why 92 degrees might not actually be optimal, and some LPs just don’t sound as good as other LPs no matter what you do.  "Physics" doesn't demand bupkis because it does not give a darn about our fetishes.

Of course I meant degrees, not percentage, but I appreciate the correction.

Whether 92 degrees is correct or not is actually beside my point, which is that some angle IS correct on any LP, in that it replicates the cutting angle. The physics that care nothing for our fetishes do care about that angle and whether the stylus is in position to extract the info as it was cut. And yes, FWIW, I believe you to be a good person, too. :)

But once one admits that 92 degrees is not necessarily optimal, then it becomes a matter of adjusting SRA to please yourself.  The fussiness of doing that would detract from my listening pleasure much more than does the possibility that each LP is not sounding its absolute best at my chosen fixed VTA.  I usually choose an LP of average thickness, adjust for that LP, and then forgeddaboudit.  If there was something "off" about SQ on a particular LP, I suppose I would play with VTA among other parameters in order to cure a perceived problem.

Right, in the end it’s largely guess work, probabilities, and subjectivity. And our approaches are not so dissimilar. I know my VTA dial settings for 180 gram and 140g LPs; I split the difference for 160, subtract that split from 140 for 120g, add it to 180 for 200. It’s a momentary mental exercise. I can approximate the weight of the LP by its flexibility via a quick shake when I take it out of the sleeve. It takes all of three seconds to set VTA with most of my arms, and I do so before I play the LP. None of this is rigorous scientific practice, but its close enough. Then I sit and enjoy the music. Like you, I’ll tweak it if it sounds off, but I usually do not need to. If I want I can check my work on my 2 Grahams because they have bubble levels. Most of my carts like the arm level--or I’ve conditioned my ears to believe that. There’s actually very little fuss in my process, and it lets me relax into the sound. As I mentioned, though, if I forget to change, I usually notice.

That hypothetical 92 degree ideal setting is not even that.  As the Wallytools people point out, one has to set the 92 degrees when the stylus is actually dragging when the record is in motion.  They utilize a special microscope and take measurements with the surface in motion. 

I prefer setting VTA by ear after first getting the body of the cartridge close to parallel to the record surface.  I too utilize a typical thickness record and don't bother to make changes for different thickness records.  

There is one extremely rare version of the linear tracking Air Tangent arm that provided for VTA adjustment on the fly using remote control--that would be the ideal way to set VTA for each record (there is a numerical readout, so one could record the number for each record once that is done by ear).  I am actually glad I don't have this kind of capability because I really don't want to bother with that kind of fiddling around.

@larryi , I think the 92 degrees in motion is why Fremer sets his to 93 static. Your approach to VTA, like lewm’s, is utterly reasonable. As an experiment, I’m going to set my tonearm to the average record, which in my scheme would be 160g, and see how long I can go without changing it. Might take me a few days to fully detox! If I can live with it, the door is open to the 4P-9 or even, gulp, Safir!

The largest sonic change I've heard in all my time with analog is when I installed the Safir arm, it wasn't subtle it was jaw dropping. Yes cartridges have their flavor, tonearms have had their flavor and even the dozen or more tables that I've owned all had their flavor but nothing could have prepared me when I swapped my 4Point11 for the Safir. At least in my own experience. Although out of curiosity I've ordered a CS Port table that just cleared Customs and should arrive in the AM. Yes I'll be using the Safir on it, very excited! 

Setting at 93 degrees static does make sense--drag would lower the actual angle in play.  

@mijostyn , did you try the MSL Platinum with the 4P-14 and find it to need a lot of damping? The cart's compliance of 10cu and the arm's effective mass of 19 put resonance at 9 Hz, right in the fat part of green on Vinyl Engine calculator. Or is there a different reason to use the damping?

Interestingly enough, the Safir has an astronomical effective mass of 60g, yet the Kuzma website says it is compatible with cartridges up to 25cu. Frank has written a whitepaper on why the received wisdom on resonance is wrong. I haven't read it but plan to.

I think lewm meant the sonic differences between the 9 or 10 Inch and the 12 Tri Planar would be impossible to predict. He is right about the LT. I am amazed by the design and think it is brilliant lateral thinking. The understand it the best thig to do is pull the patent which is online. 

I do not like VTA towers. It is totally unnecessary to be changing it all the time and I have never had trouble adjusting it in the standard way. It makes the back of the mounting point of the arm more complicated and less rigid. Set it to 93 degrees on a 150 gram record and forget it. I use a modified Wallyscope to do this but I think younger eyes should have no problem with a hand held magnifier. You get a blank file card and draw a sharp black 93 degree angle on it and place it behind the stylus on the record. You have to accommodate to the type of stylus and sometimes it is very hard to see the contact line which is why I use the microscope. Your ears can only ballpark it. 

The 4 point 14 is simply too heavy for it. The Japanese measure compliance at 100 Hz. We measure it at 10 Hz. Add 10 to the Japanese number and you will be close to the real compliance which for the MSLs is 20. Now do your math. Math is a poor way to calculate the real resonance point. Always measure it with a test record. I always push it down to 8 Hz and if it winds up at 7 Hz fine as long as your turntable tolerates it. This improves the bass. To prevent low frequency feedback you would have to add damping. Long arms have much more inertia which you have to add into the equation. It is harder for the cartridge to move it and stop it's movement. Tracking warps and eccentric records becomes much more of a problem. This is why I only use 9" arms. They track much better and put much less stress on the cartridge. The MSLs do perfectly in an arm like the Schroder CB, Reed 2G, SME V and 9" TRi Planar. If you want to spend a pile of money get the SAT arm. Frank Kuzma is not God and can not change the laws of nature. He probably does not use subwoofers. All he is doing is trying to justify the mass of the Safir, not an arm for me.  My next arm will be a Schroder LT. I'll have to get a turntable that can handle it first. Dohmann has yet to put a vacuum  platter on the Helix as he promised. 

@larryi The degree of SRA change with the platter running varies with stylus shape and compliance. The MSL drops 2 degrees running while the MC Diamond does not quite make it to 1 degree. I have not looked at the Lyra yet but it is probably close to the MSL. 93 degrees is an average. 

Kuzma’s rationale for the very high effective mass of the Safir essentially boils down to the notion that any high end modern TT will be sufficiently isolated from very low frequency disturbances, like footfalls, by its isolation mechanisms. Therefore the low resonant frequency that results from such a high effective mass is not a problem. IOW, violate the 8 to 12 Hz rule for resonance at your leisure. I’m not averse to his thesis. But I am averse to the cost of the Safir, based on my research into the cost of sapphire tubes like the one used in the Safir. You can buy one for less than $50.

@mijostyn , thanks, great stuff and much food for thought.

I hear you and lewm about VTA and I really want it to be so. Life would be so much easier setting and forgetting. But every time I try that method it only sounds good on the record weight I set it VTA at. My grand experiment not to change VTA yesterday lasted 10 minutes. I set the Graham at level on an apprx 160g LP, put on a 120g, and sat back with the committed intention of not changing VTA. I thought the sound was unacceptable, and in the ways I expected. I’d blame the Graham but I have 2 and a couple of Jelco Ortofons and an SME, all active on 3 turntables, and the same thing happens with all of them. Maybe I’m projecting. Maybe I have set up issues elsewhere that reveal themselves only when VTA is imprecisely set. Maybe I’m just a Pavlovian dupe of the VTA tower industry.

I have thought about returning to the Triplanar, which I owned for many years and ultimately found to be colored toward warmth. Perhaps the newish option for silver wire would eliminate this quibble.

@lewm , that’s interesting about the sapphire tube cost, and I agree about the arm’s price. Footfall resonance is not a concern. My SP10R weighs 135 lbs and sits on a Minus-K, and my floor is a concrete slab under glued-down wood flooring.

@wrm57 , Excellent. The MinusK is the best platform. 

It is impossible to know exactly what is going on with your turntable. I was never crazy about unipivot arms. What are you using to align the cartridge? 

I have good alignment tools, accumulated over the years: a Wally dedicated to Grahams, an older Wally Universal that I use for my 9-in Ortofon, a UNI-Pro that I like best for my 12-in Ortofon, a MintLP for my 12-in SME, and a smattering of others I don’t use. The Wally’s have always been my favorites. And I recently picked up a WallyVTA, which surprised me with how much better it made things.

The main reason for this thread is b/c I’ve started to sour a bit on my Graham Phantoms. Both of them exhibit a frustrating hypersensitivity to how the counterweight is set. I don’t mean VTF, which I set carefully to the 100th of a gram. I mean the tension on the knurled knob that moves the counterweight along its track. Keep in mind that the Grahams use a screw-track to propel the counterweight toward or away from the bearing housing. The weight is slid along the track by an accordion-like mechanism that expands or contracts. I recently discovered that the slightest pressure in either direction on the controlling knob at the end of the track (and therefore the armtube) will emphasize or diminish HF info to an astonishing degree. I’m not talking about enough pressure to change the VTF at all, measured, again, to the 100th g. I mean just pressuring it, with no discernible movement of the knob at all. And pressure in either direction has obvious and predictable sonic consequences.

I surmise that this pressure slightly changes the track-screw tension, or perhaps loads or unloads the accordion-structure (almost like a spring), which changes the resonance of the arm tube/bearing housing assembly by some small but easily audible amount. In other words, the decoupling is perhaps inadequate. This affects both my Supreme and III. Maybe the Elite is immune, I have no idea.

Perhaps I was unaware of this until my system became refined enough to expose it after many years with these tonearms. I just happened upon it accidentally while adjusting VTF. But once you test for it intentionally, it becomes incontrovertible. Changes in damping amounts within the bearing housing don’t noticeably affect this phenomenon. So I’m left with the sense that I’m not sure when I'm hearing these tonearms at neutral, and therefore when I’m hearing the cartridge rather than the tonearm, and that is frustrating me.

@wrm57 I don't mean to worsen your nervosa.  But a couple things I've learned about VTA/SRA.  Mastering lathes that cut the lacquers or DMM discs are not "adjusted" to an industry standard.  Every record that is cut from a different lathe probably has a different ideal VTA. So if you are adjusting based on the record thickness you aren't likely to be actually preserving the correct VTA for a specific recording.  

Perhaps what you are actually hearing when you adjust your VTA for album thickness relates to preservation of azimuth?  As VTA changes, so does azimuth on most tone arms that are mounted with an overhang. 


@sksos Very excited to hear what you think of the CS. Port table.  A friend of mine sold his TechDas AFV for a TAT2M2 table and likes it very much. 

No worries, @karl_desch, my nervosa is not so labile :) and I do appreciate your thoughts. It’s certainly possible azimuth is changing with VTA. But in my experience, azimuth pertains more to clarity of image and soundstage rather than what I hear when the VTA is high or low, which pertains more to frequencies. And I can vary azimuth when the VTA is too low or too high and it does not restore what I hear when the arm is level.

Anyway, I do realize that the whole VTA question is tiresome and has been done ad nauseum in these pages. Sorry to drag you all through it again. I’m happy to let it go.

So the question for me is where do I go from the Phantom, given that I want (rightly or wrongly) the ability to vary VTA easily and repeatably, and given the constraints of my Technics plinth.

Here are the choices that come to mind:

Kuzma 4Point-14 (11 won’t fit)

Triplanar 12 (standard won’t fit)

Reeds - 10.5 and 12

Schroeder LT

Technics EPA-100 and Mk2

FR-64s or 66s with B60 base

What else??

Do all these qualify as an upgrade?

I’m using a couple of Jelco Ortofons with the Easy VTA add-on and they are surprisingly good, especially for the price. I also have a Jelco TK-850S Mk2, the one with knife-edge bearings they released a few months before calling it quits, unopned in the closet. I just haven’t wanted to burn a Panzerholz armboard on what I doubt is an upgrade. I’m looking for something at a significantly higher level to replace the Graham. Any other ideas? I would like to be able to use medium and medium-high compliance MC carts without damping, so this might rule out the FRs and the Kuzma 14.


Whether any or all of the tonearms on your list qualify as an upgrade is such a difficult question to answer, especially since the cartridge/tonearm mating is such a critical factor. I've got 5 turntables up and running with 5 different tonearms. I often move cartridges around among those tonearms, and I can testify from first hand experience that the tonearm can change the personality of a cartridge, and vice-versa.  Also, on that list, the LT has to be regarded as a different animal, in principle.  Not that I have ever heard one.

That is a fine list of excellent tonearms.  I think you might enjoy a discussion with Thom Mackris of Galibier Designs.  He knows (and sells) many of those arms and can give you an experienced opinion based on your preferences.  He helped me decide between a Schroeder arm and a Kuzma. Zero pressure to purchase too.

Thank you for the tip. I’ve never talked to Tom. I might just give him a call.

Corrections to two of my previous posts.

a WallyVTA, which surprised me with how much better it made things.

I meant to say WallySkater.

And regarding the Graham counterweight:

The weight is slid along the track by an accordion-like mechanism that expands or contracts.

That’s inaccurate. It is propelled along a threaded rod that functions like a screw. But the issue of resonance and decoupling remain.

Just wanted to set the record straight.

Dear @wrm57  : If you can find out the EPA 100 that's bettr option and up-grade vs the Graham and maybe the Reeds too.



Thanks @rauliruegas . Should I hold out for the Mk2, made of Boron/Titanium, or is Titanium/Nitride Mk1 nearly as good? I’ve neither seen nor heard either one.

I concur, Thom Mackris is one of the best in the business. He’ll give you an honest opinion, but I still say the answer to your question is cartridge dependent.

Lewm, Thom agrees with you. I just got off the phone with him. Great guy. And like many wise heads in this thread, he gently argued against per-record VTA changes. Then he gave up. :)

@wrm57 , Did Thom have any tonearm suggestions?

Wally tools are overall very good. I use the Skater and Reference. I also have a very modified Wallyscope which is really a lab grade Amscope USB microscope on a highly modified microscope stage. I also use a SmarTractor which, IMHO, is the best protractor for old eyes. It is also killer for mounting tonearms. 

wrm, This is in no way an insult to you. It is a design issue all humans have to one degree or another. When it comes to very minor differences our minds can play tricks on us. This is so true about slight changes in VTA. Changes in VTA affect high frequencies. As the contact point of fine line styluses changes VTA  it disengages from high frequency modulations first. The thinner the contact point the higher the frequency affected. Modern styluses can easily read 50 kHz you would have to tilt them five degrees to have any effect on audible frequencies. You are hearing what you expect to hear unless you are comically off 93 degrees. You have to prove this to your self which is not easy to do. I did it by making digital recordings at different angles so I could make instant AB comparisons with my wife doing the switching. Now, I set my cartridges up under magnification so the VTA is as accurate as you can get it. In many instances the real VTA may be far enough off that a one degree change might make a difference. I suspect this is part of the reason for this insanity. The first thing to do is make sure you have a very accurate way to set VTA. If you have an MSL, Lyra or upper model Ortofon you can assume the angles are right on and you can use a Wally Reference. I cannot speak for other high end cartridges as I have not examined them. I can also say that the Soundsmith Voice and Clearaudio Charsma were built correctly so I suspect their other higher end cartridges are also.  Other than those the only way to be sure is with a microscope. Using just your eyes can be very tricky because the contact line might not be central on the stylus. With the Replicant 100 it is more towards the rear and hard to see. 

In short, give yourself an accurate way of setting VTA then set it and forget it. 

I am not a fan of "S" shaped tonearms. It adds unnecessary mass and inertia to a tonearm. I am extremely minimalist when it comes to tonearms, less is better. I do not want any contacts between the cartridge clips and the RCAs at the phono stage end. No VTA towers or hanging strings, no elaborate head shells.  

@mijostyn , I greatly appreciate your thoughtful post.

I take your advice about VTA seriously and without offense. If it's a delusion, it is a persistent one, decades long, but perhaps confirmation bias is operating in more ways than one. I'm going to try again with my current arms to see if I can be satisfied with a happy median VTA. It would certainly open some doors.

Maybe, too, it's time to set VTA with a microscope and see what's what. I doubt I'm comically off but there's one way to find out. Do you like the WallyScope? Seems pricey but perhaps justifiably so. Other recommendations for a scope with good software for drawing and measuring angles would be greatly appreciated.

Over the course of a very long conversation, Thom was remarkably careful about specific arm recommendations, probably because he shares @lewm's caveat about cartridge and table synergy with any arm. The custom (as opposed to commercial) Schoeders came up a few times, as did the Kuzma 4P-9. For my Technics plinth he thought his hybrid 11 would be great option, if I could get over the VTA thing. If you're unaware, he mounts an 11 armtube on a 9 base, and does so with Frank's blessing and apparently good results. Given the 18g eff mass of the 4P-11, he thought the 19g of the 4P-14 was a misprint on the Kuzma website, so he is emailing Frank for confirmation. I mentioned the Triplanar 12 and he deflected it. MSL is a fairly new line for him, so his hands-on experience with them is in the early stages.

@wrm57 , I currently use a Schroder CB 9" and am very happy with it. I have talked with Frank by email on several occasions. The very longest he recommends is 11" and no longer. It is a wonderful design and IMHO the perfect pivoted offset arm. It hits all the important design criteria I have.

As for the Wallyscope that is a conversation I would rather have privately as it is a long one. Mine really is no longer a Wallyscope. It is an MS Tool and Woodcraft one off design. Message me and we will talk. 

Yes, you have to make sure your VTA is set correctly or all bets are off. You also need a way to remove any personal bias from the equation and that is not easy.  If you currently have a VTA tower and can adjust it on the fly without disturbing the turntable have someone else do the adjusting while you sit in the listening chair. They should also keep a record of the results to show you. 

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