Power Conditioner/Surge Protector Options

@lordmelton, that’s not quite right. The lights dip as the capacitors charge and then come back. If the lights dim then stay dim, that’s a different story. Nelson Pass addresses this in one of his papers. The current isn’t usually an issue in most households with typical class A or A/B amps. Monster amps can hit the line hard, but for the most part they are not the norm. It’s how “clean” the power is that is the problem. Again, if your lights are dimming during playback that’s a problem. But highly unlikely in typical households. The reason to use a dedicated line has some validity to current, but really it’s to clean up the circuit of unwanted noise producers.

@steakster  I was talking independently about surge protection and power conditioning.

Anything in the power line to protect from surges will degrade sound and will limit the KVA demand from power amplifiers. High transient current demand from power amps will decrease voltage if it's restricted. Current up, voltage down. That's why sometimes the lights in your house will dim because the voltage is low.

A voltage regulator cannot maintain correct voltage if it doesn't have a big torroidial transformer to back it up. That's why strip power conditioners/surge protectors need to be fed from a power supply if you are using them with amps.

I only use Class A-A/B amps if you're using Class D or 5w tube amps this doesn't apply.

That is why I prefer to turn to a scientific explanation of the technology and why it works rather than just saying that it does and you should take a $2-5K leap of faith!

I agree, but if a products achieves a scientific benchmark but doesn’t give you the sound improvements you’re looking for, then what’s the point? I’d suggest reading reviews of Niagara, Audience, Synergistic, Shunyata, etc. and go with the one that seems to match best wit your sonic preferences. They’re all great, so choose based on what you’re looking for. I bought a used Audience AR1p and plugged a Wiremold power strip into it for my HeadFi setup and am really happy although I don’t have separation between digital and analog components, which is important, but then I had to pick my financial battles. Best of luck.

Lordmelton,

What you say is true and fits in with my original point. My real issue is not so much about surge protection (I know that is in my thread title) but more needing more outlets for the various components. I’m Ok with plugging the Amp and Sub directly into the wall on a dedicated line, but that leaves no positions for the other components to plug into. The options are limited and results varied with any Audiophile type of ’power strip’ which circles back to a power conditioner and here we are again with which one works (and doesn’t limit current), improves or at least doesn't degrade sound quality, while not costing as much as an Amp!....

@boostedis If you buy a product that provides surge protection then that's exactly what it's going to do but you shouldn't expect sonic improvements, you may even get a small degradation due to current limitation. It's not a leap of faith or hocus pocus but a scientific insurance policy against power grid surges. I doubt they offer much protection against lightning strikes.

Power conditioning is a different animal which endeavors to ensure enough current delivery whilst maintaining the correct voltage, and in some cases smoothing the sine wave and rejecting dc pollution of the system, among other things.

Again no witchcraft or unmeasurable cable non-science is involved, all these things can be scientifically measured, or physically observed in the unit.

However some are going to sound better than others for various reasons which probably can't be measured on an oscilloscope.

boostedis,

I doubt if you will find the scientific explanation between units as you state. Each company makes components based on their ideas, and they all think they are the best. Specifications, numbers, statistics can lie, let your ears be the judge.

Good Luck.

ozzy

different systems, different power grids, different preferences...

@boostedis

“ I am open to new ideas, but I’m quite wary of products claiming to make enormous improvements when those improvements are barely noticeable or nonexistent.”

Indeed ! It always seems to revolve around the same * I Believe* suspects, curious that!

Ozzy,

I am open to new ideas, but I’m quite wary of products claiming to make enormous improvements when those improvements are barely noticeable or nonexistent. For instance, I’m sure Shunyata makes similar claims to Audioquest but some on here claim one or the other is the cat’s meow while the other (take your pick) did nothing or actually detracted from the sound. Who’s right and who just wants to validate their purchase? That is why I prefer to turn to a scientific explanation of the technology and why it works rather than just saying that it does and you should take a $2-5K leap of faith!….

I have used several iterations of Shunyata, Synergistic, PS Audio etc. None of them worked well with my power amps, that is until I tried the Niagara 7000.

ozzy

@boostedis 

Also, where my rig is positioned there is only one outlet so plugging the Amp in directly is possible, but not practical, so having multiple plugin positions is also my challenge which would be solved by a Conditioner/Surge protector.

NO PROBLEM!

Agreed, Shunyata needs to be on the list. They pretty much have power “wired”!

Shunyata?  The hydra 6 I have owned for many years has performed flawlessly.

boostedis,

I’m not sure of your budget so here is my opinion. I somewhat agree with what has been posted. But I gotta say the AudioQuest Niagara 7000 exceeds every type of conditioner that I have tried. In sound quality that is. And isn’t that what it all about with this hobby?

Look up what it consists of. Heck look at pictures of the internals, it is more than just a surge protector or a bias negotiator with plugs.

Up until this conditioner I also thought that the power amps sound better straight into the wall. But with the 7000, my mono block amps, subwoofers, even my 85" Samsung is better plugged into the big Niagara.7000.

No scientific backing just experience, exactly the opposite of what you requested, sorry.  Since you are a relatively new poster, don’t start off with a closed mind, try it.

ozzy

I'm happiest with amp plugged into wall, and everything else into Furutech passive power strip...haven't found a conditioner yet, tried AQ, Audience, BPT and others...

Thanks for the responses. I should preface my initial comment about  ‘science’ by saying that measurements aren’t everything (at least as far as our science allows today!), but a basis for why an manufacturer explored a particular design should be based on sound principles and not just properties that sound exotic but have little effect in the audio band. I’m not trying to start a war between believers and nonbelievers, but science is at the base of the equipment so explaining it scientifically should be possible. 
Also, where my rig is positioned there is only one outlet so plugging the Amp in directly is possible, but not practical, so having multiple plugin positions is also my challenge which would be solved by a Conditioner/Surge protector. 

This is very system and home dependent.  If possible I’d recommend trying a Niagara, Plixir, Audience, and Synergistic unit in your system and given your budget. Read reviews and try those that seem to coincide with your system/sonic preferences.  Buy used, then you can try all of them and re-sell at very little loss.  It’s so system and user specific, that’s the only way I’d go.  Best of luck. 

I have not listened to my system with a TrippLite, except for the subwoofer.  Couldn't hear a difference. 

I used to live in a variety of dense apartment complexes though and I can say I could hear if the Furman was out of my system. It never sounded quiet enough or smooth enough without it. I use two now, one for the video stack and AVR, the other for the audio stack.  Maybe I need to be a real loud bass head to hear it but I've never heard any lack of dynamics. 

they are not only easy sells, they can be purchased with 30 day returns...but then listening tests would be required...

The Furman and Niagra are relatively easy sells. Buy all three, you be the judge. Quality of materials, design not just a few plugs in a box with a “surge suppressor” make a difference. 

Surge protection limits current and the last thing you want are sacrificial components to protect against surges. Surge protection will also limit sound quality.

You can't beat a large, big and heavy torroidial  transformer. This acts like a reservoir providing conditioned power while adsorbing excess voltage.

I have found Plixir AC and DC power supplies and conditioners to be excellent products, which are balanced in operation.

Plug your power amps directly into the wall, their coils are big enough to protect them.

There is only so much you can do unless you want to spend 10s of 1000s.

the EE I work with said the Triplite sucked the life out of his system...but I don’t think he measured anything...I use the Triplite in my basement system, but also have not measured it...

You've already proclaimed snake oil and dismissed responses that rely on experience, so it looks like your mind is made up. Buy what you like and good luck to you.

Triplite and Furman are certified and tested to UL 1449 standards as surge suppressors.  Check whether or not the Audioquest is UL 1449 certified.

The Triplite and Furman use different noise reducing technologies.  Furman's is more advanced, with LiFT added to the SMP.  The Triplite isolated banks have known weirdness:

Audioquest units try to excel in the audio domain by adding a lot of inductance in series with the power and ground wires.  I don't know how that translates to audible improvements.

So, my suggestions:

• Use the Furman with LiFT and SMP for the best noise and surge suppression.
• Use the Triplite on all your other sensitive electronics (routers, PC, bedroom TV, laptop chargers).
• Use a surge suppressor in your service panel, which is now required as of the NEC 2020.
• Use boutique, un-certified conditioners only if you don't really care about surge supression.