Streamer/DAC: Lumin S1, Shunyata Etron Alpha Digital power cord
I’ve been eyeballing the Tekton Moabs, but I’d rather not expend the energy/time/money if they are not a whole lot better than my Tannoy’s. Does anyone have experience with both Tannoy and Tekton? If so, are Moabs a worthwhile change, or stick with what I have? The other thing I wonder is if Moabs are ok for my 15x20 room with an 8ft ceiling?
You've assembled a system that looks like it ought to be quite good. Unfortunately, I haven't heard any of it. I think you've gotten a good bit of thoughtful advice here.
If you could articulate what it is you might like to achieve, that would be helpful, even if you just want something different. We've all been there, and unfortunately most of us have made changes to already decent systems that have been misguided moves.
If you just want something different, I think it is safe to say that changing from your Tannoys to Tektons will accomplish that. I haven't heard the Moabs, but I have heard other Tektons, and I will tell you that I was impressed by their bang for the buck. If the Tektons I've heard are any indication, they are an outstanding value proposition. You might do well to have a chat with Eric at Tekton. I'm told Eric is a straight shooter. Nothing to loose but a little time.
I also think @audiokinesis advice is worth considering. Since you already have a Debra system installed, I'm going to guess that you have the problematic low frequency range figured out, and I would further guess that you have a decent understanding of room acoustics. If your current staging and imaging is an area that could be improved, that could be a productive move. Perhaps you might want to also consider going with monitors rather than full range, since you have a DEBRA. That opens up a lot of possibilities for placement that you usually don't have with full range speakers. If you are in a dedicated room, monitors can open up the near field listening option, which as you know, can be a simpler problem when it comes to installing supporting room treatments. Again, if you are just looking for something different, that might well get you there.
I can also tell you that I moved away from SET and went the OTL route. I understand and appreciate what a great SET amp can do, but I'm as much in love with my Atma-Sphere M-60's (with the right tube complement and pre-amp) as Millercarbon is with his Moabs. They've made me stop looking and stop wondering about amplification. Any system I build in the future will start with M-60's.
It could also be that you are not really looking for something different, but wanting something significantly better. You've have had a couple of people mention room treatments, and since you didn't mention that in your system description, it may well be that would be a good move for you. Your Debra should have the low frequencies in good shape, perhaps leaving some opportunities for improvements by addressing early reflections and balancing direct vs reflected sound.
Veerossi, you might get in touch with Jim Romeyn, maker of your DEBRA subwoofer system. He may have some loudspeaker ideas. He and I have collaborated on several designs which bear my company’s name. You mentioned soundstage, and that’s one of the areas where we are taking an unorthodox and perhaps interesting approach.
I would call GIK Acoustics for advise on room treatments. They are great to work with and very reasonable compare to the competition. My entire room treatments were under $1500...I am set for life :-)
I love this place. Thanks for the feedback and many great responses.
I should have mentioned I do cherish my Turnberrys and all the wonderful things they do. The time I’ve spent with them (for the most part) has been delightful. When I say "most part" it’s because of the really long break-in and the fact they sit about 4-5" below ear level (for now). I was hoping the Tektons were that one rare and underpriced killer holy grail-deal I’ve been waiting for. I was also hoping to find out (all things being equal) is if the Tekton’s soundstage height, width and depth is greater or less than that of the Tannoys. I’m still (barely) optimistic someday I might come across the one thing which takes my system’s sound to the next level without having to shell out 10x $ for a 10% improvement.
Mesch: “Sometimes it is change we are looking for. Not improvement.”
I think you hit the nail on the head, my friend.
So, I’ll shelf my no-weak-link, side-grade, phase-coherent bad idea for now. It sounds like it’s might be time to invest in some real room treatment and professional counseling instead of messing with my speakers.
Thanks for the link Duke. It’s incredible how much this man knows about sound. “There is more useful and reliable information on the side of a tire than in most loudspeaker specifications!”
I’ve read in reviews the newer Turnberrys take some liberties with some components used like tweeter design for cost reasons and do not use the best in the Tannoy arsenal either past or present as do some of the higher models. Cheviot may be one of those, not sure.
Also I've read that amp used makes a big difference as it will no doubt with Tekton, and though flea powered SETs are not the best choice for these Tannoy and most Tekton, moderate powered push/pull tube amps are.
Cheviots have the 12" driver, the Turnberry, 10". Veerossi doesn't say what aspect of performance he's trying to better. If it's bass response, the Cheviots might be a bit better in his room. Or maybe the Canterbury? That's a lot more cash outlay, but maybe he's not opposed to that, but buying used would help.
I’ve read in reviews the newer Turnberrys take some liberties with some components used like tweeter design for cost reasons and do not use the best in the Tannoy arsenal either past or present as do some of the higher models. Cheviot may be one of those, not sure.
Also I've read that amp used makes a big difference as it will no doubt with Tekton, and though flea powered SETs are not the best choice for these Tannoy and most Tekton, moderate powered push/pull tube amps are.
If you're considering a change in speakers, why not go up the line in Tannoy? Try the new Cheviots with the 12" driver, or even higher up. Look at Latik's system, he's got some very nice Tannoys that he loves.
Most relatively GOOD speakers must be choosen to accomodate a particular audio system and room acoustic in nearfield listening and/or in regular listening...
NO speakers by itself will beat the acoustical embedding of a room, and no 2 pairs of speakers more or less on the same scale of quality can be choosen at the risk of being wrong, BEFORE one has already set his room on all embeddings count, particularly the acoustical one....
How can we compare 2 speakers in a bad room? How can someone could know what his taste will be relatively to 2 speakers in a bad room?
Perhaps one will sound better in the bad room, and the other will outshine the other only in an acoustically controlled embedding....
For example magneplanar ask for some critical precautions in a room that no small box speakers will ask for at the same level of criticality....
Tannoy dual cone ( i owned 2 pairs) are legendary speakers, Tekton, new tech very well reviewed certainly will be very different.... Better? For some yes, for others no.... It depend strongly in which room and secondarily with which electronics the comparison will be....
An upgrade is often a side grade.....
The factors that make possible the difference between a side grade and an upgrade are for me the controls of the mechanical, electrical, and acoustical embeddings , relatively to a choosen speakers even before very often the choosing of the amplifier and the dac all things being equals...
I will repeat myself, the embeddings controls dont make a SMALL difference, they make the BIGGER difference, most of the times relatively to most possible upgrades, except for sure the change from a low scale electronic to a very high scale one, thats all....This big Tannoy speakers are no so low relatively to the Tekton and perhaps relatively on par in quality to the Tekton... Then.....
I predict both will perform similarly well with your amp but the difference in sound will be nearly as profound as the difference in aesthetics and which is better will come down largely to a matter of personal preference.
If its as simple as wanting something different, then the Tektons may well float your boat. Very different.....
I predict the bold and brash American-made Tektons will grab your attention compared to the more Britishly reserved and phase coherent Tannoys. Then the question will be can the Tektons retain it over time?
Personally, I always lean towards more phase coherent designs over time for hours upon hours of continuous listening pleasure, but that is just me.
If you are asking the Moab will be better than your Tannoy the answer is no, I own half the Moab the ps 12, they sound great on classical and rock especially. Looking at the tannoy drivers it tells me , they will give good sound quality.Remember I love tekton Speakers, I also own the impact monitors.
"I can have an opinion about... how good the measurements are...
"But I cannot have an opinion about how it sounds by using any of the above parameters. If I tell you I do, it’s pure speculation..."
There’s a guy named Floyd Toole who directed the resources of Harman International into investigating whether loudspeaker measurements can predict preference. Briefly, he found that loudspeaker preference could be predicted with something like 86% accuracy based on a sufficiently comprehensive suite of frequency response measurements.
You might find this video of a speech he gave at a music school interesting:
I hear what you are saying. I can have an opinion about how a speaker looks, the quality of parts used, how big it is, how good the measurements are, etc.
But I cannot have an opinion about how it sounds by using any of the above parameters. If I tell you I do, it's pure speculation and you can tell me to pound sand.
Opinions can be based on facts or not. Hearing a particular speakers is one very good "fact" to base an opinion on, probably the best, but not the only one, and even that is not fail safe.
If that were the case, nobody could ever reasonably decide what speaker (or any product for that matter) they might like and should try without hearing them first.
Also even after hearing a speaker, one can only offer an opinion. The speaker could sound totally different elsewhere and others might hear the same setup and will still likely form a different opinion.
Weird isn’t it? You just never know for sure until you do and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's what makes the world go round.
I am with those applauding your system. Well balanced. The difference between the tow speakers are so great maybe you could own both. Sometimes it is change we are looking for. Not improvement.
The OP has a superb system - and he's not happy! There is something more going on here than just sonic dissatisfaction! I suggest professional counseling!
+1, mapman. Tannoy and Tektons....two very different speakers. Nothing against Tektons but I will never trade my Tannoy’s for anything out there let alone for Tektons :-)
BTW, you have a very nice system. Well balanced but if you’re feeling bored then maybe play with another line of cables.
Never heard Tannoy but couldn't be happier with my Moabs. My impression is Tannoy for a more polite sound, Moab for more realistic life and vitality. Totally worth whatever the wait is now. There's a reason the wait is long, and its not because they are slow to make them.
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