Ok the hardness at very high volumes was not a incoming power issue, speaker issue, or room issue. It was an amplifier power and probably voicing issue. I can can play to any volume level and it sounds superb to my ears with no hardness whatsoever. Really exceeded my expectations to be honest. This combo is the best sound I've had in my room no doubt.
Speaker suggestions under 4k
Well here it is. I sold my Tekton Double Impacts and my Lyngdorf 2170 a while back. I thought it sounded very good! I was getting out of audio and wasn't listening much anymore. Well..... now winter is here, I'm bored and have the itch to get something descent again.
I like rock/metal/bluegrass/ acoustic/ some country. I need impact and good midbass and low fatigue. I have a Crown DCI 4/300 and a upgraded Jolida Fusion preamp at the moment. Plenty of power for almost anything.
My biggest pet peeve is cabinets that start talking at high levels or when the sound hardens at high levels.
Willing to drive up to 300miles 1 way for the right deal and I am in West Mi. A little older does not bother me at all. I've just started looking and a few I've been eying are:
Aerial LR5 or Model 9
Dali MS4
LSA 20 statements (new)
KEF 205/2
Dynaudio Focus 360
Any others anyone feels I should keep an eye out for in this price range?
Thanks
I like rock/metal/bluegrass/ acoustic/ some country. I need impact and good midbass and low fatigue. I have a Crown DCI 4/300 and a upgraded Jolida Fusion preamp at the moment. Plenty of power for almost anything.
My biggest pet peeve is cabinets that start talking at high levels or when the sound hardens at high levels.
Willing to drive up to 300miles 1 way for the right deal and I am in West Mi. A little older does not bother me at all. I've just started looking and a few I've been eying are:
Aerial LR5 or Model 9
Dali MS4
LSA 20 statements (new)
KEF 205/2
Dynaudio Focus 360
Any others anyone feels I should keep an eye out for in this price range?
Thanks
93 responses Add your response
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If someone from Michigan can stomach the idea of an amp from Ohio: https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649701352-mcintosh-mc-2205-amplifier/ |
Ok Aragon is better than the Crown after warmed up although the Crown may do some things better. A little more detailed I would say. Highs are better on the Aragon and flow is better. Bouncy little amp. Surprisingly good bass slam. I feel more relaxed listening to the Aragon for sure. So yeah you guys were right.... get rid of the Crown. I will end with I dont think its a bad amplifer and it is for sure better than the cheaper XLS Crowns. Anyone in West to Central MI thinking of selling a Parasound A21 or similar hit me up as I may be interested. |
Bought a descent class ab amp today to compare with the Crown dci. Its an Aragon 2002 in great shape. Price too good to pass up to at least try it out. According to the owner it has upgraded input caps and is biased to factory specs. Wanted to see if some descent AB sounds better than the Crown before I spend 2kish on something like the Parasound Halo. Just warming up so we shall see. So far the Crown is definitely more detailed and powerful sounding but I'll give it a bit. |
The Parasound A21, newer the better, likely would work just fine. You like black? https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649700424-parasound-a21-250-wpc-power-amplifier-in-black/ |
Thanks, I have been eyeing Parasound A21. Seems to get great reviews, plenty of power and has variable gain so I can get it just right to run DAC direct. I will look into these others you mentioned as well. Also still looking at Odyssey Stratos Extreme but even though I love their sound the 2 I have had were a little noisy so that scares me away a bit. |
I saw an ATI multi-channel amp listed (along with PSA, Conrad-Johnson, and a host of others around or below that price range -- you can always make an offer below the asking price, and see what happens) on one of the sites. The ATI might have fan cooling, if that matters to you. I have two such amps (one is a two-channel, the other, seven), and they push clean power and plenty of it. I subscribe to the school of thought ("power school"?) that an amp exists merely to provide sufficient (or more) wattage. The source, preamps, DACs, and speakers should handle the signal processing. <end of my preaching> ATI long has made the amps for JBL Synthesis, which not only are generally high-priced, sophisticated systems, but typically are installed in environments that demand reliability and dependability (six-figure systems owned by impatient people). |
Room is 13x19. Half the room where I sit I have 7ft ceilings,the other other half is 9 ft with open rafters. Bass traps in al corners 4in thick. Couple owens 703 panels on the walls at reflections points. 1 2.5inthick 703 hanging from the ceiling between the speakers. Ohh and some 2 in 703s on the drywall from the drop down transition from rafters to drywall. There is a Odyssey Stratos Extreme for sale locally I've been eyeballing but I think he wants too much and is not negotiable. I am however considering other amps than the crown. I'm not convinced it is the problem however, I will keep it and compare when I buy a nice AB amp. The Pioneers do not have the resonance the Tektons had at high volumes. I have been playing with positioning for best results as well. |
To Mofojo, I would ask you to discribe your room/listening space firstly. Any wall treatments, carpet, ceiling tiles etc. I mention this only because you mention a hardening upon loud levels. My finger wants to point to the Crown amp on this. Far better options I think are available. Was your room too small for the Tekton DIs you had ? I believe the listening space and their acoustic treatments are just as important as the gear used to join in a synergy that brings music to life and beyond. Been at this for 45+ years one way or another, which means squat other than I know what I like, my musical tastes, the equipment that melds together to form that certain synergy that puts a smile on my mug. East Michigan here, Metro Detroit area. Enjoy. |
I have lived with the Pioneers for 5-6 days and could not be more pleased. They are fantastic and I feel a huge bang for the buck for what I paid for them. They do excite my room more than I had anticipated. I got some bass traps set up correctly a few days ago and that basically knocked out the problem completely. Ceiling and wall treatment is next. @howaboutthat41, Thanks again for the heads up! |
The speakers were delivered yesterday along with my new RME ADI-2 DAC. First impressions are very favorable. Very neutral and organic. Stayed up way too late last night listening. I am paying for that somewhat today. Thinking I'm gonna be slacking at work today as my office is in the same room. The finish if veneer but glossy. What would be the best way to clean it? |
I will back up on the Tekton subject. Loud volumes I thought they hardened up some. Lost coherence. Pretty damn loud mind you. I thought this was my room and very well could have been. If my Moabs are anything to go by, it wasn't the speakers. Shouldn't be a problem with the Pioneer either. At only 89dB you'll never be able to get them to play loud anyway. |
Well I have owned a lot of high quality audio equipment over the last 40 years and there is much I do not know. One thing I do know for sure is that speakers are a very personal perception and no two people hear the same. That said, the room also has a major impact on speaker sound and presentation. I live in SW Michigan and some time ago I consigned two pair of speakers to Misfitz Audio in GR. One pair of Klipsch Palladium P17Bs (light oak) in very good condition (with stands) and one pair of B&W CDM 9NT in rosewood in mint condition. At this point I have not talked with the owner in many months but last time we spoke they had not sold and COVID was making life difficult. Not sure if the store is even still in existence but there are two great pair of speakers you could actually listen to! Joe D’ |
Well I have owned a lot of high quality audio equipment over the last 40 years and there is much I do not know. One thing I do know for sure is that speakers are a very personal perception and no two people hear the same. That said, the room also has a major impact on speaker sound and presentation. I live in SW Michigan and some time ago I consigned two pair of speakers to Misfitz Audio in GR. One pair of Klipsch Palladium P17Bs (light oak) in very good condition (with stands) and one pair of B&W CDM 9NT in rosewood in mint condition. At this point I have not talked with the owner in many months but last time we spoke they had not sold and COVID was making life difficult. Not sure if the store is even still in existence but there are two great pair of speakers you could actually listen to! Joe D’ |
If those Pioneers are anything close to the TAD speakers in sound quality you have made a great choice, imo. I hope you will be thrilled with them. I think Andrew Jones is one of those great speaker designers who can make stunning high end speakers and best-value speakers for others. Years back the TAD models he designed, that I heard, were superb. Hearing them was an impression made, never forgotten. Have fun with your S1s and let us know! |
Raven Audio CeLest Towers. ravenaudio.com On the PTA list. https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2020/12/04/the-best-floorstanding-speakers-buyers-guide-2021/ While your at it buy a Raven Nighthawk and hear the music not your gear! |
I listened to a pair of Dali speakers at 2019 RMAF. In a crappy little 10 x 12 room they sounded great. Price was about $5k as I recall. Many complaints about Dyna high end harshness have been posted here. I had the smaller budget LSA 2 ways and they were very good enough that I would think their top model is excellent. Happy Hunting! |
Your very best value is in a good DIY loudspeaker project, or possibly finding a well-made DIY set used. Don’t turn your nose up at DIY. Many of the designs are done by the best audio engineers on the planet and are just as good as the best commercial designs. I suggest you look seriously at the SEAS Thor. Total materials cost will run you about $2500. If you don’t want to build it, Madisound partners with a cabinet maker that will make it up for you and ship it to you. Delivered will probably run you about $3500. The Thor was designed by Joe D’Appolito, one of the best known loudspeaker designers on the planet. This is not some cheap throw together. This is true audiophile hi-end. This design is very comparable to the Joseph Audio Perspective 2 Graphene, which retails at about $13,000. Both designs use the same tweeter and have transmission line cabinets. The Thor uses a slightly larger bass driver. |
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If you can find a pair of jBL 4319 monitors, check them out. They were replaced by the L100 Classics and for awhile, were sold side by side, for the same money. To clear them out, they went out the door for $2500, down from their original $4000 asking price. I was told by musicdirect.com that I"d hear no improvement going for the L100s as it would be just a sideways move. With the right set up, they can do all you want with the styles of music you listed. Having finally dialed in my system as far as it can go, the 4319s were never the limiting factor in it all. They just got better and better the further I improved my system. All the best, Nonoise |
If you have $4 - $5 grand to spend, with your electronics and desire for classical music and midrange, you really need to consider Sonus faber Sonetto V’s at $4,999.00. Quintessence Audio in Chicago is a great dealer with good demo capabilities and knowledgeable staff. They may even have a demo pair at less money. The Sonetto’s are easily matched with amps both SS and Tube. I have owned Luxman, and Rogue Audio amps and Focal, B&W, Yamaha NS 1000, and finally Sonus Faber Venere 2.5 and now Sonetto V speakers. While I don’t have a $100k system, mine is a $15k system. I’ve had friends with $70k systems say they can’t get the sound that I have. I can only agree that Dynaudio, Monitor Audio and the many other suggestions you’ve received are good speakers, but you’d be selling yourself short if you don’t at least audition the Sonetto V’s. Good listening and good luck! |
My DAC choices recently came down to MHDT Orchid and Audio Mirror. Based on some good discussion with people I trust, I picked up the Orchid, and it is one amazing DAC. I had several other higher priced DACs, and this one is way more musically engaging. I'd put it high on your list of considerations. Good luck putting it all together! |
@rushfan I had the DIs for a couple years and liked them very much. I wouldn't say I gave up on them and the Moabs were in the running on this purchase. @audio-b-dog I had Goldenear Triton Ones before the DIs. Liked them a lot, liked the DIs more. I would love to hear the Reference. @gkr70067I find the DCI Crowns very clean and powerful. Also from all accounts the Pioneers like high power so I will bi amp for a total of 600w channel. If it does not sound great I will look at replacing. I may try and borrow a more upscale amp to try out for a shootout. Won't arrive till the 15th!! Damn.. hate waiting. |