Dear all, I think my speaker’s HF sounds too harsh, I have tried all possible acoustics treatment that I can afford and repositioning it, however it still sounds harsh.
I am not good in DIYing, and the dealer said that the tweeter is ok, and for now my budget doesn’t allow me to buy new speakers.
I understand that there are stand alone super tweeter, but is there any stand alone tweeter?
@dekay Understood. Your suggestion reminded me of a post here from several years ago. I think it was Tvad who mentioned the studio tweak of hanging a sheet of TP in front of the tweeter.
@gondo101 It did take a LOT of time and experimentation - several years - to tame the Forest's highs but it has been accomplished and I'm not suffering ear bleed listening to older CDs from the early days of "perfect sound forever". So it is possible to overcome this shortcoming with the right combination of wire and gear. On the other hand, much as I love my Forests and plan on keeping them, I do tend to agree with @jond and wonder if they are not a bit "declasse" compared to the rest of your system. If simple "non-destructive" tweaks don't work, it would seem silly to recommend changing out any of your electronics to "force fit the Forests". The better solution, as others have mentioned, might well be to start auditioning speakers to find some that are a better match for your gear...as intimidating as that prospect might be. Maybe something from the Sonus Faber line would work. Years ago, I heard a system with SF's Guarneri Homage speakers driven by ARC tube separates. It made a lasting and very positive impression. Not sure what the current version of these speakers would be. Good luck finding a solution that works for you.
Gondo experiment with onother pair of speakers, It could be your systems or one of your gears or cables.no tweaks can fix that .identify the problem first...
Wow, so many “tricks” that I was not aware of :) Except cartridges, tone arm, and music server, all were bought as second hand (half of it is demo unit from stores whose owner I know in person).
Maybe it’s time to get new speakers, but buying speakers is a bit scary, because if I find it’s not what I expect, it’s difficult to sell.
Metal dome tweeters are excessively "bright" sounding! Replace yours with a pair of SEAS silk-dome tweeters. These are used in my Snell A's, E's and J's - with excellent results!
if your tweeter is too sharp your crossover maybe is not to good , to save money and not break the bank Foste X great Capacitor from Japan but limited in sizes, Madisound carries them. A Audyn Copper , or clarity CSA, Obbiggato Gold try the capacitors first And resistors buy a mills resistor 12watt just find out the specs 250v is more then enough voltage.start there that is where more then 1/2 problems arrive from In Loudspeakers.
I can't comment on your tweeter situation but it occurs to me you have some very high end equipment tethered to a good but relatively speaking budget speaker. I am not saying it's the cause of your HF issue but it looks like a bit of a mismatch overall. Did you just buy some or all of that gear and were the Forest's speakers from a previous system?
onhwy61 is exactly right about the S'phile findings. Lowering slightly by removing the balls and perhaps even trying some toe OUT might be of help. I also found positioning them closer together (under 7 feet apart) was helpful bringing up the bass. Stronger bass might better balance the treble. In one review (Audiophilia?) the writer had commented "pay attention to how Vince B. has them positioned at shows". Photos of Totem Forests from a show allowed the carpet pattern to be used to determine distance between the speakers. They were a lot closer together than I would have guessed. I do remember the step chang in bass output (and vocal clarity) that resulted moving them to mirror positioning in that photo.
Belatedly it occurred to me to ask how old your gear is. Could this harshness be break in pains for the Forests or any of your other gear?? It took a LONG time for the Forests to start producing meaningful bass in my system.
When the Totem Forest loudspeakers were reviewed in Stereophile the measurements showed a lively lower treble coupled with strong resonant behavior above 20kHz. You're obviously very sensitive to this. Your only true solution is to get a different loudspeaker that doesn't have this set of problems. If that's not a possibility I would suggest you experiment with toe-in, tilt and listener height so that you are not listening directly in the worst axis of the loudspeaker's problem area.
@gondo101 Taking a cue from dekay, I'm reminded of an old, less elegant solution if you don't have grill covers for your Forests. Try hanging a piece of toilet paper (or two) over the tweeters. Supposedly an old recording studio trick.
If you have grills for the speakers try placing a small coin sized, single layer, piece of soft tissue paper on the inside of the grill @ the center point of the tweeter.
Sounds dumb, but it's subtle enough to be useful.
The tissue may hold/stick with static electricity alone.
Also, if the tweeters and/or mid-bass drivers have rounded head mounting screws sticking out...
Try placing small self adhesive felt dots on the screw heads.
The small felt dots are also subtle, but can be effective as well.
I'll also mention that I do use two power conditioners in my setup and my speakers don't even have tweeters (just single wide range drivers).
Without the conditioners (one for digital source and the other for amps/preamps/TT) the mids and highs do exhibit glare with some source material (both digital and analog).
I don't think you can just swap the tweeter without having some knowledge of the crossover design. One common and easy way to "tame" a tweeter is by adding a resistor in series with the tweeter to lower its amplitude. Just be aware that nothing short of trial and error can yield any meaningful results. The easiest approach is to experiment with different off axis listening positions until you find one that suits your taste.
One additional simple "tweak" is, if you are using Totem’s "claws and balls" supplied with the Forest, take them off the balls. Just have them sitting on the flat surface of the claw. I found the slight lowering of height that results does reduce treble energy from the Forests.
What speaker do you have? Also, here's some free, or nearly free ideas. First, throw some blankets/pillows around on the floor between the speakers and even behind them. See if any of that helps.
If your tweeter is mounted on a panel, PSA backed felt around it may help.
Depending on what your speakers are, a tweeter cap upgrade may also help, or perhaps you need to lower the tweeter level via an added resistor, but that's best left for the DIY forum here:
I have looked at the Forest in the Past. I like the drivers that they have chosen and actually use the midbass myself in a few speakers. 1 easy change to the crossover is to replace the tweeter cap. The Forest are well thought out, but I'm sure that cost was kept inline. So, replace the single series tweeter cap with a cap that leans dark or rich harmonics that is still very detailed.... The Jupiter Condenser Beeswax comes to mind... I'm sure that there are others, but this would be audible....
i will try to see if power conditioner can help. I have tried all the possible positioning, for the treatment i have tried to position rugs and even borrow some panel treatment.
or maybe my speaker is just simply aging. It maybe true that the harsh sound are ly happened when I play modern pop but sounds good when playing trio acoustic jazz combo.
@timlub, actually I am looking for stand alone tweeter notbsuper tweeter, so that I can just connect the jumper wire to this tweeter so by passing the speakers’ tweters itself.
Your Tron stages have a relaxed sound, and I would imagine so do your Totems. If the Trons are new they do take time to settle down. Otherwise, you can try plugging your power amp directly into the wall if you currently have them plugged into your conditioner. Did something change, so your tweeter started sounding harsh, or have you been working on your system over time to resolve the harshness? Kenny
Unfortunately adding a super tweeter will not smooth out the tweeter that you currently have, it will only extend the top end and could actually add to the frequencies that bother you... I'm sorry if you said, but I didn't see it. What speakers are you using? Are they as ghosthouse posted indeed Totem Forest? I
I'll take a look and see if I can offer some practical advise, Tim
Imagine my surprise when I checked your system and saw Totem Forests listed. I have had these same speakers for around 10 years now and am very familiar with their sonics. I am sympathetic to your finding their treble can be harsh. That metal dome tweeter helps with resolution and imaging but - esp. w/certain badly (mastered?) material - can be hard on the ears. I love the Forests and have spent a lot of time working to tame that upper frequency "bite". I am not dismissing treatments for your power that have been suggested. I haven’t really explored this area. Also, I don’t know your electronics and can’t speak to how well or not these match up to the Forests. I don’t have time right now to investigate them.
Here are things I feel contributed to a MUCH more listenable experience with them on a almost ALL the recordings I have (by the way, my system is listed so "a picture is worth a thousand words): Room treatment Electronics - Hegel H200 amp (much "warmer" and forgiving than EL34 tube mono blocks!) and Gungnir MB DAC. More power - wpc adequate to drive the Forests might be way less than needed for best sound and I believe this might extend to treble "sweetness" or lack thereof. Ripping CDs and playback via Schiit Gungnir MB from Auralic Aries Mini (don’t underestimate the potential contribution of jitter to that HF pain) Cabling! I’m well aware of the "don’t use cables as tone controls" orthodoxy. The CD/SACD player I use (TEAC CD3000) was highly resolving but on some CDs, almost unlistenable. Cardas 300B Twinlink SE and Cabledyne Copper Reference XLRs provided a big improvement. Cardas Golden Reference between preamp and amp. Clear Day Double Shotguns and, more recently, Cardas Parsec speaker cables have helped a lot too. Try connecting your speaker cable to the lower speaker binding posts and see if you hear an improvement.
Those are the main points. If anything else comes to mind, I’ll post again later. I’m sure you will be getting advice to sell the Forests though I think they have much to offer with properly managed HF. Good luck!
James1969, Thanks forvthe advice. But to me, it is not a “noise” but unfortunatelly the tweeter really sounds harsh. I borrowed an equalizer and helped only a bit
I just got done evaluating 3 PS Audio Noise Harvesters in my system. They are very good at smoothing HF in my system before I got an isolation transformer. Now that I have an isolation transformer in my system, all my noise from my power is clean.
You have a great system. You may want to try the PS Audio Noise Harvester, the more you use, the greater affect they have. I hear 5 is the magic number, I only tried 3.
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