Like many of you, I have been pondering purchasing these speakers but am very curious about the unusual tweeter array. I asked the smartest speaker person that I know (he is a student of Sean Olive) about the design and below is what he had to say.
"In theory it could work, but the driver spacing means that the crossover point would need to be very low. He is using the SB acoustics tweeter which is 72mm in diameter, center to center on the outside opposing drivers is around 5.7 inches, which is about 2400Hz. This means that combing would stop between 1/4 to 1/2 of the wavelength (between 1200-600Hz) is where the outside tweeters should start playing nice with each other. Since he is not using low enough crossover points he has created a comb filtering monster. Now while it's not the great point source that was promised, it's no worse than most line arrays and the combing will average itself out given enough listening distance.
The MTM spacing on the other hand is ridiculous. Hopefully he is cutting the top end off on one of those midrange drivers to avoid combing."
I’m sorry, M :) but the post wasn’t directed at you....
.....it was for future readers.
The performance of the DIs was mentioned twice with respect to the LA show. The post from the people whose room it actually was and who felt strongly enough to post on Audiogon, allows future readers to have context, when reading this thread.
I believe the post from Positive Feedback stands up to it’s own merits. Readers can decide for themselves, just as it appears you have.
I think us Tekton owners should stop replying to these threads. It's obvious that the true purpose of them is to bash these speakers, regardless of their performance. These folks were never going to try them. The old saying is true, "there are none so blind as those who will not see".
In my case, this is not true. As I said, I will give them a fair and impartial evaluation. I would do this for ANY loudspeaker system..... There are those who hear, but do not listen........
There has been some pertinent questions asked here,some may be not in the best fashion or intentions but IMO overall I think there is some knowledge to be gained.
As said from a couple of different professional reviewers the DI's are a very "Disruptive" product that is'nt going to be well received by many.
I see the DI's as just getting started. Already there are upgraded crossovers and caps. There also appears to be quite a bit of room to upgrade the woofers and tweeters to higher end, such as from Seas or Dynaudio. And to solve any phase or comb filtering issues, DSP can be offered. Lots of potential. I love the efficiency.
M, That's the only way to do it. Find out for yourself.
I brought the DIs in for HT duty. I was going 2ch with something along the lines of the Devore O/96s or Harbeth 40.2s and was waiting for our new home renovation to move along so we could decide on which room would end up being suited for 2ch/HT. Both rooms are very different.
When I first heard the Double Impacts, they stopped me in my tracks. It was obvious to my ears that these were and are remarkable speakers. My depleted bank account is testament to how good these speakers are. I've completely ignored the HT side and have been rebuilding my 2Ch system at a very rapid speed. The upside has been the savings over my other speaker choices which has covered some of my component and system expenses.
And for those who think we are all DI all the time, I had to postpone my demo of the GoldenEar Triton Reference speakers this week since my son is ill. It's on for next week. And I'm contemplating an in home demo of Volti Audio Rivals and Pure Audio speakers.
Not for me it isn't. The only metric that counts for me is what they sound like in my home. But if you're looking for a reason to not audition the DIs, use that one and ignore all of us that have heard and own them.
and we audition them where,.oooh wait,im sorry.....buy them,unpack a 100 pound speaker,set it up..if it sounds like crap, repack,,,send them back for $300-500 out of pocket shipping cost...yep, I think ill do that
Well the alternative is to spend $7000 on a used set of speakers you then decide you want to sell and Incur all those selling costs . Or spend $10,000 on a new set that does not sound as good and then take a big loss? I guess it all depends on your perspective.
Interesting how we all view a situation differently. To me being able to audition a speaker in my home with my electronics without having to pay the dealer 40% markup and sales tax is a win. In my opinion the risk is less than guessing if I may like a speaker in my listening space after hearing it somewhere else with foreign electronics, source, and music. If you don't end up loving that choice you are quickly out 50% of your purchase price and then have to take the cost and effort to sell and ship them (and hope Fedex/UPS doesn't damage them). The Tekton/Spatial/Vinnie Rossie model makes the most sense to me...Everyone is different.
I've never paid a 40% markup,if you do find another dealer.I've never met an online only dealer that will come to my home and help with setup.I've never met an online dealer that will allow me to bring my amp or what ever gear in and hook it up.I've never met an online only dealer help me with issues if something goes a miss...on and on.I like to support a local stereo shop if they have great customer service .True,every one is different.....Now, if I buy a pair of speakers for 7k on the used market most likely Im getting speakers that are over 20 grand new . I know what these speakers sound like as I've done my research and listening. When selling i'm recouping my money,that's why we buy used.Ive never lost money buying used as a matter of fact Ive always made money after listening to them for a couple years.I hate to say it but for me your arguments don't hold water.....but thats just me.Having said that if Tekton had dealer support ,I could actually listen to them and liked what I heard,sure id be a player.
Grannyring and schw06, I agree with your comments/ take on this as well. If I were really interested in a speaker I’d welcome the opportunity to hear it in my system. What better way to assess them could there possibly be? What is a superior scenario to a home audition?
Yes you will incur some expense with shipping if you decide to return them, this is acceptable to me given other alternatives. Listening at a ďealer showroom is helpful but this isn’t "your" system. Is the expectation there should be zero out of pocket cost and the manufacturer just absorbs everything? That makes little sense to me.
Many speaker manufacturers don’t publish crossover point figures. If it’s that important for you to know call or email the builder. Even if this information is readily available you would still not know what the speaker sounds like. Home audition when possible is the best method for judging an audio product. Tekton willingly offers this vital option. Charles
Taking a chance on my DI's worked out really good in my favor,I threw away boxes and packing at the end of the first week.
I realize 3k is 3k but what about the other chance I took with 8k in buying the Linear tube audio gear that I pair with my DI's.
What about the 9k I have invested in 3 Dac's that I own taking the chance again.
I have no dealers in my state other than HT gear and I have no interest in most of those products.
This is why I greatly appreciate these threads and other sites as a starting point to gain valuable info from actual users,It's priceless IMO.
I greatly respect these threads and I always try my best to give solid advice which I can backup from actually listening and or owning a product and I can generally backup what I hear with actual in room measurements and experience.I always try to do best in real information and not speculation.
I know the DI speaker quite well, I have upgraded every part in the crossovers except the coil on the woofers.
I know every crossover point from testing and confirming the points with the crossover design.
I have upgraded all 4 10 inch woofers to a better match for me.
I will only publish on any thread,a certain amount of info related to any products specs or measurements and this is out of Respect for the designers and builders of the products.
I get your perspective and makes a lot of sense. Clearly both the speaker design and business model go against your preferences and buying patterns. Perhaps this thread isn't for you?
Mission, we disagree. I am very happy you have had good fortune buying and selling. Be thankful. For the record, you don’t have near the experience as I and many others selling gear. Just look at our feedback. The current market is slow, very slow, and chances are very strong you will not make money on your buying and selling today. Perhaps you are an Audiogon sage of sorts with better selling skills then us common Aphiles. Perhaps a little luck on your few transactions also played a role.
+1 on everything you have said in your previous post.
The current audio market is very slow and is generally a buyers market not a sellers.
I watch certain categories of components on audiogon like a hawk and really good stuff at decent used prices aren't selling.I see this pattern on a daily basis and I'm sure you do as well.
Probably not, When I first called Eric I had read a little about the DI's and I put together a list of questions for him and that included detailed exact crossover points,So I could get a better understanding of the unusual and different design of this speaker.
He answered every one of my questions and after getting my DI's, I have confirmed that every detail that he told me is spot one.
When I read his patent that he has several times I found that to be kinda Vague and generic,so I really won't comment on that,Honestly don't really care.
Please, if you aren't serious about purchasing from him and are just looking for rocks to throw, don't call him. We, who await upgrades or shipments would rather have him working on our stuff. But if you're actually making a decision to buy, he will happily satisfy your need for information. Thank you!
Don't call him...who the heck are you to say that.Are you an employee of tekton? Hate to tell ya my friend but my guess is anyone including myself will call if and when we want
I believe you have every right to call Tekton and talk to Eric, Maybe you will decide to buy yourself a pair and then you could give us your evaluation,good,bad,or ugly.
@kalali : My turnaround time for the upgraded DIs in standard color was about three weeks from order to doorstep. FedEx was great and they actually wheeled each box in to my audio rooom. I don't think that is standard FedEx practice. :)
The upgrades offered are listed at the tail end of the Specifications Section on the Double Impact page. There is a link at the end of the upgrade descriptor that will take you to this page:
Additional upgrade package: add $300 for Cardas inputs, Mil-Spec internal wiring, ClarityCap or Solen (depending upon real-time availability) within the tweeter section. Includes an oversized Jantzen or Erse Sledgehammer inductor (depending upon real-time availability) within the woofer section. - view here
When I purchased my pair they had a set on their specials page that were ready to ship the same day.I got a upgraded black metallic paint finish,they were reduced slightly because of 2 super tiny flaws in the paint,you have to be within 6 inches to see them.I understand from others that the average wait is 3 to 4 weeks including shipping time,but that may vary depending on finish ordered.
Onhwy61,
The upgrades are explained in detail if you view the double impact speaker from the drop down that is located in the full tower section.
Now I know Tekton doesn't have the best website and needs more info maybe that will get better in time.
Thank you guys. I see he has a few DI pairs listed under the "Specials", most with upgrades. I'm still baffled with how efficient these gentle giants are...
Kenny - They must sound incredible paired with your LTA gear.
The efficiency comes from the combination of, Drivers used crossover design cabinet internal volume 4 ohm impedance
And a touch of designer brilliance IMO.
They do sound simply wonderful in my system,the best sound I've ever owned and rivals many super high end systems that I've heard. I guess that is why you can see I'm so passionate about them.
I sent you a pm a few days ago,I don't know if you got it.
I know the DI speaker quite well, I have upgraded every part in the crossovers except the coil on the woofers.
I know every crossover point from testing and confirming the points with the crossover design.
I have upgraded all 4 10 inch woofers to a better match for me.Enter your text ...
Just curious, if the DI sound so great why all the changes..changing out all the woofers and upgrading completely the crossovers.What didn't you like,missing or want to hear ,and what drivers did you go with
They did sound great right out of the shipping boxes,but I haven't owned a speaker yet that I did'nt mod and get better sound.
Even though I did buy a upgraded pair of Di's from Eric,I have upgraded farther with even better caps,inductors and resistors and some wiring.
I started with the crossover on the woofers, The heavy duty Jantzen coil is fine I didn't change it but I did change the single cap and got rid off the sand cast resistor,I don't like that type,I think they can be noisy.From day one when I got the speakers I didn't like cosmetically the blue colored woofers with my black metallic paint so I changed to the Eminence beta which gave me black cones the stock ones are the alpha's with blue cones.The physical size including depth are the same but the specs are slightly different.The beta's are 2 to 3 db more efficient in their specs of the driver in free air and they give me better bass and dynamics at very low volume levels and they equal or are slightly better defined bass at higher volumes.I also biwire mine with a single run of western electric 10ga wire that solders directly in the crossover,and I use the same wire to the woofers.The beta woofers cost 60.00 a piece from us speaker.I hear just better defined bass maybe tighter and does measure 2 to 3 db down at 20hz in room.
Now that's the easy stuff,I took a look at the crossover for the tweeters and mids and decided to change all caps,resistors,and coils to better parts IMO but I did'nt change any wiring,It's ok and would be a lot of work.
Even though my speakers sounded very good once broken in I couldn't leave them alone because I knew I could make them sound better,I basically gained overall smoothness and a tiny bit of clarity without hurting the magical midrange that these speakers have by design.
I wouldn't honestly recommend that everybody that owns a upgraded pair of Di's would want to incur the expense and time involved for the noticeable but modest gains in sound. Basically what I'm saying It's a lot of work and it took me 2 whole days to do mine.
Take the time and remove a couple of tweeters and maybe the lwr mid and look at the crossover and you will have to decide if you want to tackle it. One option might be just to change the little bypass cap on the tweeters input to better quality.
This DIY guy says your the Man! Love reading what you did and you have now worked me up into DIY frenzy. I must do something else to my current speakers😊
I have found the types of improvements you outlined above will improve the sound of any and all speakers. Builders must build to a certain price point and we all get that.
So doing the math...$3000 for the DIs...$300 for ungraded version..$500 for paint..$260ish for new woofers,I undersrand you bought flawed finish but if one was to order them today ,basically 4 grand...Why did you stay with eminence,was it simple because of a direct size fit..have to say I consider them, well junk..Did you think about trying better drivers or did you want to stay in a price range.Its appearing to me these speakers are a project DYI,I've upgraded speakers before but normally vintage stuff like caps etc,never something new
missioncoonery, why the sour grapes man? The guy answered the question you asked. He bought something he liked but wanted to make it better. We all do that to everything we buy, to the extent our abilities allow. I bought a brand new Harley and the first thing I did was change the intake and the exhaust to make it "better".
@kalali- you're not missing anything. I think if you do a google search for the term "internet troll" it will become very clear. It's a shame. This was a helpful thread otherwise.
Hi schw06, Your kind comments are appreciated. I'd add kdude66 (kenny) to your list. He's a very competent modifier of audio equipment and has much experience with a wide assortment of top notch amplifiers and speakers. He knows his stuff 😊 Charles
Charles, I actually deleted that post from embarrassment for not mentioning kdude66(Kenny C). Like you he’s a wealth of knowledge. I’ve had the pleasure of speaking with him several times and his knowledge base is mind blowing.Thanks to both of you and grannyring and mapman and most everyone else on the thread. There is a wealth of experience and knowledge on this thread.
Speaking of math and the oft-stated "cheap speakers" in the DIs...
Have been using the DIs for three months and after two, decided to purchase some backup speakers for those unfortunate blowups that might occur.
So, I checked carefully on the Internet and purchased the exact same speakers Eric uses at the best available price -- but just a few, of course. The SB Acoustics ring tweeters are the most expensive at $57 apiece, the midrange at about $50 and the woofer at about $40.
So, you add them all up and the best price for the 22 drivers in two speakers is right at $1158 -- this is 39% of the speaker cost.
Now those of you who keep touting the "cheap speakers" line, tell me another premium speaker that spends 39% of its retail cost on the speakers. Does Wilson's Sasha (say, $28k) contain speakers in it that cost $11,000?
BTW, if you actually examine the DI speakers as I have, they are well made.
But, then, so many of the posts deal with theory, speculation, manipulation, and dogma. When I purchased the DIs I made the decision on the basis of the large number of owners who uniformly expressed delight with the sound.
You can get away with cheaper speakers in a design like this because they aren't being pushed like they would be in a 2 way design and individual drivers aren't being asked to produce a really wide frequency range. This is not to say that there aren't better sounding off the shelf drivers available. Eventually I expect a DI reference line with top shelf drivers and a DSP option.
There is as I understand a Double Impact "SE" version that uses all Scanspeak drivers in place of the standard drivers. This model is 6000.00 dollars so presumably the Scanspeak drivers are much more expensive. Charles
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