I have dedicated audio room 14.5x20.5x9 ft. Currently have Marantz Reference CD/Intergrated paired to Magnepan 1.7's with REL T-7 subs. For the vast majority of music I love this system. The only nit pick is that it is lacking/limited in covering say below 35 hz or so. For the first time actually buzzed the panel with an organ sacd. Bummer. Thought of upgrading subs to rythmicks but then I will need to high pass the 1.7's. Really don't want to deal with that approach.
Enter the Double Impacts. Many interesting things here. Would certainly have a different set of strengths here. Dynamics, claimed bottom octave coverage in one package, suspect a good match to current electronics.
I've read all the threads here so we do not need to rehash that. Just wondering if others out there have FIRST HAND experience with these or other Tekton speakers
First, my name is spelled Teajay. Secondly, these three individuals shared this in confidence with me trusting I would keep their anonymity in the public domain. If these " horse's mouths" want to share with you, it's their decision not mine.
Teajay, You sound upset. Is it because you want everyone to believe anything you say? I hope you are having a great day and listening to some good music.
Grannyring, I am open-minded, and I would love for you to share the sound improvement after your mods. If you don't want to share it here, I understand, I can send you a PM. What I am gathering here from some folks is that they only want hear praises for the DIs, nothing else.
Bill (grannyring), I owe you a debt for giving great advice regarding building my system and selling gear. Thanks for the great feedback on the DI’s. I believe we hear things the same way. I’m glad to hear that you’re willing to hang on to the DI’s and experiment because you hear potential there. Your contributions will be sorely missed and it’s understandable why you would want to cut back on the unnecessary drama. We should recognize that we all have different tastes, rooms, goals and signal chains, etc. Many, many variables. As readers, we should be able to pick out the value of each post and not scrutinize what doesn’t match our own experience specifically. Thanks Bill!
Thanks for the advice to listen to some great music, I am already!
I don't know what your basing your perception on that I'm upset, but that's OK. If you mean I find statements that I disagree with somewhat annoying, including being accused of not telling the truth that's correct.
As I told Eric this morning regarding nay-sayers towards him and his speakers, which is a very tiny % of the members posting here:
When I spoke to Teajay, trust me He is a straight shooter guy, I ask him 3 or four questions, To my surprise, He answered them without hesitation, my kind a audio reviewer ,we need more like him in this hobby, thanks Teajay
Hey Teajay, Something I have noticed about you on this thread is that you seem to have issues with what some people are feeding their DIs with, especially those that say something negative about the DI sound. While I agree that you may be right in some situations, I think questioning what Grannyring is feeding his DIs is not right. This man has owned very nice/expensive gear and sold them for the Lyngdorf that he likes so much. With his experience and ears, wouldn’t he know the sound he is after, and know if the Lyngdorf is not playing well with he DIs?
I will take mine to a level beyond the SEs and see what that does. Should be fun, informative, and a labor of love.
This was kind of what I was thinking. Should I ever care to upgrade, why spend all of that extra bread when I can upgrade to something greater than the DI SEs just with wires, caps and do-dads, never mind a change in woofers.
I'm a long way from anything like that, but I hope you stick around, or perhaps be available to bounce ideas off of.
I would be interested in hearing about your labor of love. :-)
In the history of audio audiophiles have always found ways to modify great low price gear to fit there personal taste. Magnepan ,Hafler to name a few.I am very happy with my standard Di's optioning to upgrade gear upstream,but the beat goes on.
If you go back and read some of the exchanges regarding personal taste, synergy, placement of speakers and matching up different upstream gear to tune the DI's, you will see that this so-called "issue", is a non-issue, has been addressed already.
Yes, I have opinions, based on wide spread actual experience with SS or tube gear driving the DI's. Someone called me a McIntosh hater because I never liked the house sound of this companies gear. I never attacked on a personal basis anyone on this thread. I have clearly disagreed with others, but respectfully so.
To answer your question of course I can ask anybody respectfully regrading what they drive their DI's with because what they might think is a shortcoming of the speaker is really a possible flaw in their upstream gear.
By the way, what's your direct experience with the DI's? You seem to come across strongly regrading my opinions, what's your take on the DI's?
@grannyring @porscheracer I'm really curious too! I looked through the Eminence Beta woofers but not sure which is which as their sensitivities are all similar.
Here is repeat of a much earlier post to address your question,
They did sound great right out of the shipping boxes,but I haven't owned a speaker yet that I did'nt mod and get better sound.
Even though I did buy a upgraded pair of Di's from Eric,I have upgraded farther with even better caps,inductors and resistors and some wiring.
I started with the crossover on the woofers, The heavy duty Jantzen coil is fine I didn't change it but I did change the single cap and got rid off the sand cast resistor,I don't like that type,I think they can be noisy.From day one when I got the speakers I didn't like cosmetically the blue colored woofers with my black metallic paint so I changed to the Eminence beta which gave me black cones the stock ones are the alpha's with blue cones.The physical size including depth are the same but the specs are slightly different.The beta's are 2 Db more efficient in their specs of the driver in free air and they give me better bass and dynamics at very low volume levels and they equal or are slightly better defined bass at higher volumes.I also biwire mine with a single run of western electric 10ga wire that solders directly in the crossover,and I use the same wire to the woofers.The beta woofers cost 60.00 a piece from us speaker.I hear just better defined bass maybe tighter and does measure 2 to 3 db down at 20hz in room.
Now that's the easy stuff,I took a look at the crossover for the tweeters and mids and decided to change all caps,resistors,and coils to better parts IMO but I did'nt change any wiring,It's ok and would be a lot of work.
Even though my speakers sounded very good once broken in I couldn't leave them alone because I knew I could make them sound better,I basically gained overall smoothness and a tiny bit of clarity and coherence without hurting but only improving the magical midrange that these speakers have by design.
I wouldn't honestly recommend that everybody that owns a upgraded pair of Di's would want to incur the expense and time involved for the noticeable but modest gains in sound. Basically what I'm saying It's a lot of work and it took me 2 whole days to do mine.
Take the time and remove a couple of tweeters and maybe the lwr mid and look at the crossover and you will have to decide if you want to tackle it. One option might be just to change the little bypass cap on the tweeters input to better quality.
Overall I would say I gained a solid 3% gain in improved sound in every sonic apspect that I can think of.
With these sound improvements It doesn't make me in no hurry to upgrade to any other speakers,but my digital front end has seen some improvements as well in the last couple of weeks and as my budget allows I'm going to purchase a Music Vault M7 music server and I hope to have the best digital that I have ever heard,I was a analog guy for many years but I have'nt spun a LP in 3 weeks and I'm not missing it one bit.
Teajay, I have not heard the DI's or any Tekton speakers, and I have NEVER commented about a direct experience with any Tekton speakers. If you read my posts, you too will know that I mentioned I am interested in the SEs - I really do. I live in Colorado but I wasn't able to make it to RMAF due to work and family issues (I had to care for a sick child while wife is at work).
On the other hand, I think the Lyngdorf is very good and should be for the DI.
grannyring Thank you for your post regarding your experience with the DIs. I'm truly sorry you are taking a hiatus from the Agon. I've been following you, charles1dad, Almarg, for several years now and feel extremely simpatico with you grannyring, in how you hear and what you value in musical sound, what I call timbral listening, a phrase/definition I borrowed from Jeff Day because he defines this type of listening to music best.
I admire your skill, thanks for the wire builds you did for me. I trust I can PM you from time to time to compare notes, perhaps implement future suggestions regarding mods. All the best, mikirob
Granny ring I like the fact you have experience with possibilities With upgrades and not sugar coating the truth. Putting things in perspective the DI,are great for the money. The New $6500 SE version has a better driver complement ,and decent crossover parts but nothing Special Erik gets mad when asked ,because Doesnot put much $$ into the crossover ,and average and I am sure the average parts are ok clarity caps, but which ones ? Personally if you are buying them there should be top wiring options ,and at least a reference capacitor, cross over package For I can tell you without reservation the crossover being the heart Of a speaker ,and please remember with all these drivers decent Wave core, and better woofers they are 2-3% distortion, compared with top scan speaker ,seas, Accuton, they are not as refined no matter how good the design .They are a very good speaker and great deal.I give credit where do,But do not compare with a marten, Wilson YG,Magico these are in another league - Period precision Instruments this is why they cost big bucks the drivers many times more expensive and Accurate under 1% ,the cabinets are totally inert. The adverts are a bit over the top. I am just being honest I heard the latest Wilson Alexx 2 weeks ago .$110k but Fantastic. If I had the money I would buy them. Having owned a Hifi store in the past hand built precision audio has its place ,just as very expensive cars. The Double impacts,SE and flagship are all very Good to excellent and several times over in $$ value. This is honest and the truth .I have had systems approaching 6 figures.. Top systems are just a bit better at everything and more refined I will leave it at that if you like the Double impact buy em great deal .
Wow, this thread has really seen some activities for the past couple of days. I missed some "action" here. But it was an interesting read with @shardone being called a troll and @grannyring and @teajay not agreeing, while the DI supporters calling the opinions of some folks as "does not make sense". Guys, relax, this is a hobby - not a religion. I know that hobbies are greater than religion. But don't take it to an extent that you make this thread and forum a boring place. I was initially skeptical at first (see my posts many moons ago), since I saw only new posters posting on this thread and the same folks posting over and over again. But it looks like Eric has taken efforts to create a great loudspeaker for the audiophile community and has got one of the biggest following, as much as I can remember being on Audiogon since 2005. It reminded me of how much fanatically I supported the Promitheus TVC once I experienced it. The reason I write today is to share how "our" experience are our own and how we all try to defend it. I have been searching for loudspeakers for the past 2 years. I visited AXPONA 2015 and 2017 and have finally found my loudspeakers. In this mission I figured out one thing - when we audition a loudspeaker do we really audition the loudspeaker or do we judge our listening preferences? I strongly believe that we unconsciously are judging our preferences. No loudspeaker is good or bad. It all depends on us. There are hundreds of successful loudspeaker designers and millions of listeners. If a loudspeaker designer's speakers were bad, how the hell do these companies thrive for so many years? Think about it. I listened to the $10k Sony loudspeaker at AXPONA 2015 and was amazed by the music it made. But when I heard it 2 months back at a dealer, the same (model, not pair) speakers sounded lifeless and dull. So what happened? The gear was different, the room was different, etc. One thing I will say - no loudspeaker in this world is perfect. So if you trumpeted about it being so great, be prepared for the fact that someone who tried the same one might not like it. Just because Mr. X, Mr. Y and Mr. Z did not find the speaker to be as great as Mr. A, Mr. B and Mr. C found it to be, does not mean that loudspeaker is no good. Their choices differ. No need for calling names or dissing their opinions. On my part, I did reach out to the Chicago dealer to audition the DI loudspeaker. But the timing did not work out. At the same time, I roughly built a
cardboard
model of the DI to see how it would look in my room, and found out that it would be too imposing. So I gave up on that idea.So, yes, I have never heard the DIs. Hence cannot comment on the sound. But @grannyring has given us a straight forward review of the DIs he compared with his loudspeakers. I am surprised that he and @charles1dad liked the DIs so much, considering their audio journey and the gear they sport, that I think the DIs must be something special. @teajay also posted his honest opinion and compared other pricey loudspeakers and found the Tektons better. Nothing wrong with that either, since it is his preference. But the Tekton loudspeakers are made in the US of A. The people who design them and work in the factory that makes them also live in the US of A. So $1 in any part of the USA has the same value. They have to make a living and bring us better products in the future. So $3k loudspeaker will certainly have some compromises. Lets not expect miracles for $3k and hope that these are the most perfect loudspeakers. If these were to be made by some "named brands", I am thinking they would cost > $10k, and I would not buy them for that price or size. Sorry about the philosophical lecture, but I think I had to share my opinion. As a side note, not a single post was made on 10-01-2017. THAT was the day all the DI owners were thoroughly enjoying their music!
@milpai— thanks for all that. My favorite part was the last line “As a side note, not a single post was made on 10-01-2017. THAT was the day all the DI owners were thoroughly enjoying their music!” Haha. Sometimes we forget it should be about the music!!
Milpai maybe some are tweaking or slightly modifying them, or just texting other audiophile friend, to tell them how good are the DI, or searching for tube amps.
Sbayne And Milpai your post finally made me smile and no more hiatus feeling😃 it’s all about music and fun.To all who post today, thank you and PEACE to ALL.....There is no right or wrong ,
”Sometimes we forget it should be about the music!!”
It’s all about the music for me,that is why this will be my last post on these Audiogon threads,absolutely no time for this stuff and I will be enjoying my system and listening more than ever.
Thanks for everyone’s opinion. They are all valid in the mind of each poster. Really that is all that counts. There really isn’t such thing as right and wrong because we all hear differently. We all have our preferences and that makes the world a more interesting place. I have a lot of respect for many of the posters here. As I said before, Teajay and Mike Kaye are great friends. On the other hand, I have been reading Grannyring’s posts for years and always respected his opinion. I always liked the AZ crescendo speakers at shows also. I am wondering if Grannyring modified that speaker also because I have been told that the designer also uses inexpensive parts and somehow still makes a great speaker.
One thing I would like everyone to think about is that we are listening to systems and not just speakers. The interesting thing is that amps that I thought would be great with all the Tekton speakers that I have heard (DI, DI SE, Ulfs) did not turn out that way. There is a 300 B amp that I didn’t particularly like on the DI that Teajay told me today sounded glorious on the Ulfs. In my mind I had already panned this amp but it could be the interaction in the system just didn’t work with the DI. The 2A3 amp that didn't work with the Ulfs etc. Audio is complicated for the most dedicated of us. It is apparent that these speakers can sound quite different in different systems. I never heard the speakers being bass shy at Teajay’s house. I have said before that I am more critical of the midrange and I am not that sensitive to bass as others are. I totally believe that in some systems and rooms the speaker might not be to eveyone’s taste. Audio is not paint by numbers and you cannot cobble together a system based upon reviews or other people’s experience. It really is trial and error until it works for you. Tekton has done audiophiles a great service offering excellent speakers for little money in high end economics. The fact that they are even in the conversation of great speakers at $3000 is astounding. They are obviously not for everyone but they can sound quite different with different amplication, wires, front ends and the list goes on and on. I hope Grannyring and others will continue to post because there is much to learn from them. We all lose by not hearing and considering all voices.
and please remember with all these drivers decent Wave core, and better woofers they are 2-3% distortion, compared with top scan speaker ,seas, Accuton, they are not as refined no matter how good the design .They are a very good speaker and great deal.I give credit where do,
Are you saying then that you cannot replace the woofers in the DIs to give 1% distortion or less, thus putting the drivers, themselves, more in line with what you'd expect from pricier speakers?
You would have to redesign the cabinet, and cross over if you put in different brand higher spec- matched drivers. For their magnet,frame structure is different A DI ultimate reference would be I would estimate around $18k To be close to the competition that sells for $40k. I think this is an honest assessment if I were coursing parts . Like a 3 way speaker I built ,for sale grade A Birch ply sonivly is noticsbly more solid ,and sonivly better, the DI dpeaker uses MDF .one major reason these $$ big money speakers have such low noise and tight Bass is composite ,materials Machined Aluminum and high tech - black hole sound absorption for example ,and the Entire crossover in its own isolated chamber. The Double impact Has the Crossover in the same environment as the drivers, that is an error . For the crossover picks up vibration as is generated back as distortions ,small may be but cumulative. These are just examples .even hook up wire .I seen a great demonstration with regular decent ,kimber,cardas hook up wire $ 3 a foot And the excellent Verastarr Copper foil ,in a vapor speaker .The verastarr was $10 a ft .thst being said the speaker was much more detailed in transparent. It all comes down to how much do you want to compromise in the speakers $$ price, performance .All parts choices are cumulative in the final voicing Of it's design.
WOW! Those of you that know me know that I'm very open-minded to an indivudals thought. There is no right and wrong, only what sounds good to each individual's preferences... That's the way life seems to work. Thank goodness we don't all have the same likes and dislikes!
@baranyi - "Audio is not paint by numbers and you cannot cobble together a system based upon reviews or other people’s experience. It really is trial and error until it works for you. Tekton has done audiophiles a great service offering excellent speakers for little money in high end economics. The fact that they are even in the conversation of great speakers at $3000 is astounding. They are obviously not for everyone but they can sound quite different with different amplication, wires, front ends and the list goes on and on."
Well said. I would only say I do think we can get a general idea of what something sounds like from reviews and other people’s experience. Just don't go overboard with thinking your system is somehow subpar if you don't copy a reviewer's or a well-regarded poster's equipment that they are currently using. Just learn from it and make your own decisions.
Let’s say no one knows what’s inside the DI? Will the impression will still be the same? When I first read Terry’s review I did not pay attention on parts, wiring, so I was excited to have them, then I read many post here describing the wire, caps,cabinet quality,drivers, some did say they are cheap, I have to ask myself Iam paying too much for the speakers, but maybe for the music is a bargain, yesterday posting is truly a very interesting day for the DI thread, it shows how many audiophile has knowledge , speaker sound preference , It’s fun n stressful to read at times, but there is a deeper sense to learn , it made me realize how special are this DI, 20k modified speakers vs 3k, the 3k keeps fighting back, at the end I notice the conclusion after all this 3k still a very good speaker for the price, this is the first time to see this speaker match 20 k vs 3k. At Agon....The 3k might not have won over 20k if Iam the 3k owner , I be more than happy on that match...my desire to get the DI is more after yesterday.....
@audioman58 - So, you’re just specing things out in theory. That’s cool. I understand now.
I’m a purist. I don’t want distortion. I’ve spend X amount of dollars on a front end with almost nil measurable distortion. Moreover, I grapple with the "distortion" inherent in tube amps, and whether I want that, even knowing that SS amp manufacturers don’t ever talk about the high order harmonics intrinsic in their gear. Of course, any recording ever committed to magnetic tape has loads of 3rd order harmonics, not failing to mention the distortions inherent in microphones.
Anyway, some of that is a different story. However, did you know that blind tests in humans have deduced that even the introduction of 19% distortion below 500Hz is inaudible? This also plays into the masking effect that all speakers have. So, we’re talking about bass in the DI and whether 2%-3% distortion in the low end is going to have a great effect, as opposed to these cats who use NASA grade dampening material.
What’s more, there are some theories that state that most speaker manufacturers have it all wrong, in that they are using too much dampening, when fundamentally music relies - nay, NEEDS - vibration to happen, and that dampening has become just audiophile speak that says something has to perform X way to react Y way. In other words, you don’t throw out dampening, but you also consider what is a proper amount of vibration and whether that adds to the sound or not.
I posted yesterday about speaker manufacturers goosing the bass, and this much is a fact. Therefore, I ask if a $50k speaker, or even a $200 Bose system, knowingly skews the original audio signal by 4db in the bass, yet with only 1% distortion, and this other speaker has more of a natural bass response with 3% distortion (that you cannot hear anyway), which is the lesser of the two evils?
You having maggi speakers their speed is 2 nd to only Electrostaics. And the panel is for sure far less mass ,faster less distortion , but will not have the dynamic output from midbsss down . Put 2 powered subwoofers in the mix and now potentially you will have optimum extension and control. my earlier comment on conventional driver distortion was from the midrange on up ,not lower midbsss on down. Maggi can be greatly improved just be putting in Quality crossover parts ,fuses and get rid of the cheap frame ,Myers stands much more ridged all depends on your room ,what’s lacking what you are trying to accomplish. Myself have one of the New pup Martin Logan powered DSP powered bass. I completely upgraded the crossover far better then even their best speaker , it now sounds excellent wires many people overlook .i have tried many cables finally settled on the Verastarr line , these get out f the way far better then most commercial brands by a wide margin. Penny wise and pound foolish .myself included in the past .everything starts and stops with wire .many times it is your wire masking the capabilities of your electronics .that is another story . Don’t be cheap ,your system is only as strong as its weakest link !!
I have worked in audio for over 30 years ,and just from experience for example a Hiqiphon tweeter less then .5 % per per on average $260a pr . The wavecore not even close 2-3% and not even guaranteed X7 drivers a potential for many anamolies. Very simple math. These revelator tweeters,seas millennium, Accuton ceramic are all in the 1% range .wave Core is a $40tweeter, not $150 you are not going to see hand applied coatings and measurements per matched pair . Taiwan or not . This is where you get what you pay for better,everything, materials as well as castings on the frame .this is why YG acoustics,Magic, even Wilson have a dedicated line hand built for them ,but at a cost . That is where the 3-4 % potentially comes in ,and for the Bass 3X that.
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