I have dedicated audio room 14.5x20.5x9 ft. Currently have Marantz Reference CD/Intergrated paired to Magnepan 1.7's with REL T-7 subs. For the vast majority of music I love this system. The only nit pick is that it is lacking/limited in covering say below 35 hz or so. For the first time actually buzzed the panel with an organ sacd. Bummer. Thought of upgrading subs to rythmicks but then I will need to high pass the 1.7's. Really don't want to deal with that approach.
Enter the Double Impacts. Many interesting things here. Would certainly have a different set of strengths here. Dynamics, claimed bottom octave coverage in one package, suspect a good match to current electronics.
I've read all the threads here so we do not need to rehash that. Just wondering if others out there have FIRST HAND experience with these or other Tekton speakers
Depending on the gain of your preamp and amp, I still think the DI’s need close to 30 watts of quality power to sound their best. A friend brought over a First Watt SIT-2 to try with my speakers. It sounded great at lower volume levels but my Pioneer M-22 outclassed it at normal listening levels when listening to classical music.
If I were buying a tube-based amp, I would have to give a hard look at this one:
sbayne, the Berning is a push pull, class A, zero feedback, fully differential balanced, ZOTL amp. On the rear panel you can have a toggle switch between xlr and rca input. So technically you can have two sources connected. One via xlr and one via rca. I have gone with only the xlr input. The amp has four stages of power filtration including power factor correction. There are two LEDs on the front panel whose colour keeps changing between greenish orange to more greenish orange depending on impedance load. The colour the LED shows also indicates if there’s any problem with the amp. For example it will go red if a tube goes. No biasing is required.
The amp puts out 10 watts at 8 ohms and 12 watts at 4 ohms.
There is a toggle switch in the front panel which gives you option of two output impedance - 2.8 ohms and 2 ohms. At 2.8 ohms output impedance it puts out 5.4 watts. And at 2 ohms impedance it puts out 10 watts.
And yes it costs around USD 7000.
Above are the specs of my amp. I do not know if any changes have been made in his current version.
Hi every one I am the one who order aric audio 211/845 amp, my main amp is Allnic T-2000 Anniversary Inter amp . I am very happy with sound but always want to try powerful SET amp drive 89db speaker. So I ordered the 211/845 amp with all NOS and special psvane Treasure mk2 211/845 tubes Aric you can talk here little more detail my amp here please CHA
David Berning also custom makes a 300b class A, SET, ZOTL amp. I was actually more keen on that amp but David Berning was of the opinion the 6b4g, push pull, ZOTL was a superior option. So went with it. In the past the 300b SET was Bernings personal amp. Now he has moved to the 6b4g push pull amp
Hi charles1dad I think you consider 845/211SET amp as very good option for 300b amp cause you get more power and different tone for SET sound. I hope come out nicely for my speaker.
The Double impact are a great deal for $3k, the bass and cabinet is a weak link It us not tight Bass like with a $$ speaker thst us a fact.i compared with new ML powered Bass ,as well as Vandersteen speaker. All more money. Bass will do cleanly around 30hz Cleanly a Striway concert grand only goes to 28hz and thst is low frequrncy vibration at that frequency . These cabinrts are not That thick or ridged 30hz clean is very respectable not even 2% of music goes this low . There is no standards in Audio. Test yo be sweeps at 90hz is whst one of the guys did. If you bought the new SE model much better drivers ,and a little better crossover thst too us a weakness,, i have modded crossovrrs gif years The crossover us the heart .use good Jsntzen copper inductors old Mills resistors US made 5.00 each sonicraft sells them. No Solen garbage caps and cheapest clarity caps at minimum use the New Clarity Copper S.A. caps very good caps for the money .I gave done tins of experimenting .There are many better still butt Erik Is very frugal.
Text errors compliment of SamDung- tablet spelling wizard I wrote fast before work ,the intent was correct from midbass up even the cheaper $3k is respectable.i have been into sudio well over 30 years and the drivers in any speaker can be the weak link,a $300 scan speak or of revelatory tweeters are roughly 1% or under distortion , these $25;tweeter in the Double impact are yes Double or more Total Harmonic Distortion . It will still sound good But This us where the $$ speakers will All ways win . Send a pair if these to John Atkinson at Sterrophile he would love to dissect the good and bad, he is by far the best technician of any magazine . I have seen him rip products $$ he tells it as he sees it . Just have real expectations ,thst us all I am saying . For the money the DI are very good.
@audioman58 is correct and does have good experience with modifying and upgrading crossovers and gear. I now have a fully broken in pair of DI speakers with the upgrade package he offers playing in my system. I own them having purchased them from a past owner who can no longer stand to see them in his listening room. Why? Nothing to do with sound quality, but because of his horrific customer service experience with Tekton. Let’s just say Tekton needs additional talent and help moving forward if they want to achieve sustainable success.
So how do they sound vs. my highly upgraded set of Acoustic Zen Crescendo speakers? I will get to that in a moment. First, my room has 10 foot ceilings and is 24 x 33. The speakers are 8 feet apart center to center and 4 feet from the wall behind them. I sit 9.5 feet back. I do have some moderate toe in, nothing aggressive.
First, I prefer my AZ Crescendo speakers for their all around performance. They are the better speaker in my room and to my ears. They are as resolving and detailed as the DI, but deliver the details in a more meaty and full bodied manner. The music is indeed more rich, lovely, and beautiful with the AZ speakers. The AZ speakers have better bass. No, not as fast and tight as the DI. The DI speakers seem to have bass issues sounding lean quite often. Some tunes have deep and powerful bass, but most are presented in a lean manner. Deep bass is there on some tunes. Fast and articulate bass. But many recordings are missing the body and meat needed to carry the tune. Missing the tone, body, meat, and warm glow of my AZ speakers. I guess I am saying they sound lean with ultra fast deep bass notes there and gone so fast as to strip the music of its natural resonance and beauty in my rig.
The mids are wonderful as are the highs. They image very well and throw a great big stage. In my room, set up properly, they do not sound forward or bright. I cannot fault the sound from the mids up.
The cabinets are indeed one of the weak points holding this speaker back in bass performance. Very frustrating speaker in this regard. I kept saying to myself “darn, where is the bass”. Then for brief moments it shows up only to leave you wanting again. The wire and parts used from caps to drivers also impare the bass performance. The wire gauge is very, very thin for bass drivers.
Here is what I learned regarding bass performance. @kdude66 upgraded his woofers to the Eminence Beta Model which is 2db more efficient and offers slightly better specs. The key here is the aditional 2db of bass volume. Since I have Roon I was able to use the wonderful DSP tools and added 2db of bass up to 200 hertz. This made all the difference in the world. I have read many posts complaining about the bass on the DI speaker and this additional 2db or so gives the speaker a more pleasing presentation. The speaker is now more consistently full bodied and meaty.
This is not about liking added midbass bloat or veering off of neutral. It is about making this speaker more tonally complete and reflective of the source material in the bass area.
I conclude this is the best $3500 speaker I have ever heard. Easily. To say it betters $20,000 speaker’s handily or regularly is hyperbole in my humble opinion. I think it is easy to be swept off your feet by the speaker’s unique sound in the mids and it’s remarkable brilliance and immediacy. Unique and uncanny leading one to get very excited and rightly so. However, the speaker does have bass flaws and is not as tidy or refined as my AZ speakers in the mids and highs. I would like more richness and ultimate smoothness ideally. This is a very slight thing folks as the DI does mids and highs very well as I have mentioned. Others have said it is a smidgen “rough around the edges” compared to top performing speakers and I agree.
For those thinking of buying this speaker this is what I would say. If you love a rich and lovely full bodied sound and don’t want speakers finicky in this regard, then make sure you hear these speakers first. They are fussy or finicky of all your gear as they are a little lean sounding. Many recordings and gear will only serve to highlight this lean tendency and while impressive sounding, you may be left longing for more warmth and full bodied beauty.
If you value speed, detail, imaging and really don’t need more full bodied tone, then you will be delighted with this speaker as is.
Ok, the great news for DIY guys is you can turn these speakers into everything and anything you could ever want. The bass issues noted above can be remedied with the better Beta driver, bettter quality crossover parts, thicker gauge wire, additional cab dampening, and 2db of bass boost up to 200 hertz. Yes, all these ingredients in varying combinations will get you there.
High quality Duelund hook up wire, SOTA resistors and capacitors will certainly benifit the mids and highs resulting in more refinement. Parts such as Lefson and Path Audio resistors, Jupiter copper foil caps, Mundorf Evo caps and others will refine and deliver more beauty.
One could spend $1500, no labor included, and improve things nicely,
I won’t be posting here much, if any, anymore for personal reasons. Let’s just say it is more healthy for me this way. I wanted to post this as I know many audiophiles are looking and wondering about this speaker. While it is a great speaker it is not perfect. I am thrilled at the level of sound quality now available for $3500. Very refreshing and good for the industry. Some will prefer other speakers for $5000 because they desire a different sonic personality. That is just the way it is. Know what you like in sound and find it. Don’t assume any speaker based on the hype will deliver what you want. Listen to it and determine for yourself. The DI speaker does have a unique sound and personality. It just does. Will you like it? Perhaps, perhaps not. For me to live with it I will need to modify it to my liking as outlined above. If you have Roon try adding 2db or so up to 200 hertz. Play with this as it will take time to dial it perfectly with your room and preferences.
@tkcha Cha's amplifier is a very robust build centered around the 845 DHT/211 tube, and will be using EL34's (also capable of a KT88) to drive the large voltage/current swings needed for the Input of the DHT. A 6SL7 will be the input stage, then the Pentode driver stage, and lastly the power tube. We're using Electra-Print output transformers and a choke (capable of handling 5 kV swings). This amplifier uses many upgrades parts including all Vishay chassis-mount resistors, Audyn "True Copper" caps and independent power supplies for both the driver/pentode stage, the 845/211 power stage, as well as DC on the DHT's filaments. All will fit neatly in a hard-wood wrapped chassis with mirrored-aluminum as the finished top plate. Aric
@charles1dad - This is a very robust power tube using very high voltages and requiring a very heavy voltage swing at it's grid to drive it. 30 watts is the absolute maximum this tube is capable of- and that's running it at it's absolute max specs (not a good recipe for reliability or distortion). The sweet spot for this tube is between 18-22 watts, and this amplifier will have fully user-adjustable bias controls to fine-tune the amount of current that it draws.
Wow Grannyring, thank you for the post, what cables did you use? What gear did you use tubes or solid state? Can you mention the cd or sacd you played n vynil you played?thanks
Modified Lyngdorf 2170 Music Vault Ultra server from Sound Science BPT modified balanced power conditioner Core Power Technology modified balanced power cords 20amp direct lines with Porter Ports outlets Western Electric 10gauge DIY speaker cable
Aric, Thanks, the sweetspot operating point of a tube is where I want to be. 18 to 22 watts is far from stressing the 845 which is an additional advantage. Charles
I don’t remember Waltersalas complaining about the bass, or lean sounding , I read mostly all his DI post, I might be wrong.Are those DI were fully broken in?
Grannyring: I have not heard the Cresendo Speakers. They have a horn tweeter don't they? I'll have to find some to listen to. In the past I have preferred ribbon tweeters to horn tweeters but still something I should listen to based on your writeup.
My review on the Ulfberht Speakers just went up on hometheaterreview.com this morning. I hope you all enjoy reading it and that it clearly explains why it's the best speaker I ever have had in my house. Yes, I bought the pair!
Yes fully broken in as they are 3 months old. My comments are vs speakers like the AZ Crescendo and other top shelf speakers. No right or wrong here folks. No need to be defensive or looking for explainations under the rug and the like. All this is subjective based on a great big world of speaker options and experiences. Just reporting my experiences. I have owned far too many systems, but my experience level is very high as a result. Take care Agoners.
@grannyring Great post! Thanks for that. This is exactly what I was trying to describe in my review but I didn't have the technical knowledge to explain. Using EQ always seems to be such a dirty word. I've never EQ'd a speaker but I tried adding a bit down low on Audirvana with these. It just added very audible distortion. I think it has to do with the interface between the MacBook Pro factory EQ and the Audirvana app. Something isn't right there. I'm going to keep digging.
For me these speakers are everything I could want except for the fact that they are lacking on the low frequencies on certain music. (And the size lol) But I know they have tons of potential because on certain recordings, the lows are so powerful, rich and satisfying but in a non bloated way. My biggest pet peeve with any system is trying to find recordings/albums to match the speakers vs just hitting play and having most everything sound great. In saying this, the DI's play the best recordings better than anything I've had or heard.
And just to remind everyone, yes I do still have some set up tweaks to perform to do the DI's more justice. And for the price, these speakers are absolutely amazing.
Grannyring, exceptional gear, but I think the western electric match your AZ speakers. From what I read the western is on the bright side, so DI being highly resolving speakers it will sound lean and bass won’t be right , my guest CT speaker cables will eliminate the lean sound, bass will improve, I think Waltersalas use the CT.my Andra 1 if I will put silver the sound is lean, The CT is perfect...Teo game changer and Reveal HF are good compliments...I do respect you Grannyring, I follow your post well..Thank you for sharing.....
WE 10 gauge is actually on the warm side completely. Owners know this about the 10 gauge. Wonderful full bodied cable. That is why I own it. The 16 gauge is more lively. My system is geared and specifically tweaked for rich, full bodied sound. The modified BPT and CPT all help as well as the WE10 gauge. The Lyngdorf with room correction assures the DI speakers sound as intended also. The Lyngdorf is quite neural, but leans on the warm side of things.
Grannyring, Thanks a lot for your feedback!! I have followed you and Charles (charles1dad) for a very long time, and I value your opinions greatly. You both call a spade a spade, so I price your feedback on audio gear very high. While we can all argue that performance on a component can't solely be judged on the cost, any sensible person knows that quality parts and implementation plays a major part. I have interest in the Tekton SEs and still do. I expected quality drivers but you saw the designers response. It appears to him that all that matters is the sound, and that there was/is no need for people to ask for the drivers used because the sound alone answers it all.
Your quote "
Let’s just say Tekton needs additional talent and help moving forward if they want to achieve sustainable success" is spot on. Tekton is doing something great for us audiophiles in that he is bringing affordable speakers with great sound to us, but he need to be open to criticism on improvements. Also, how he responds to the critics is very important as his personality/ego could show in his responses. As a designer/manufacturer/owner of a company/seller, how he treats customers, whether good or bad, will decide his fate in this business going forward.
I felt the other speaker cables I had at my disposal did not gel well with everything in my system. I was experiencing way too much upper midrange and high frequencies with the Electrons installed. My old speakers (Eminent Technology) had a more laidback presentation. When adding the WE cables, I felt like I added a warm tube. It pushed back the soundstage to midhall and eliminated the nasties that were making my ears miserable (I have tinnitus). I am sure other cables like the Cerious Tech would work great as well. I am in the camp that believes cables do influence the sound. Some don’t. No debates :)
I wasn’t about to buy more cables to figure out how to make the Electrons work in my room, so I was lucky to have the WE cables available. Yes it came down to a wire. A $60 wire lol
Associated Equiptment Amp: Lyndorf TDAI 2170 Source: Simaudio 260d Tranport Digital Cable: High Fidelity Reveal Power Cords : CPT 150 and 300 Power Conditioner: High Fidelity Cable MC6
I also wanted to take the time to thank the great posters here that have helped assist me in making my system sound the way it does presently. You know who you are.
For me these speakers are everything I could want except for the fact that they are lacking on the low frequencies on certain music. (And the size lol) But I know they have tons of potential because on certain recordings, the lows are so powerful, rich and satisfying but in a non bloated way. My biggest pet peeve with any system is trying to find recordings/albums to match the speakers vs just hitting play and having most everything sound great. In saying this, the DI's play the best recordings better than anything I've had or heard.
Right, but is this the DI's fault or is it what intrinsic in the music?
I come from a world of headphones, dating back to 1983 or so, and once I got to the upper echelon of cans, I knew that I had to switch to speakers. Notice, however, the bass response with headphones, and how yes, if they recorded the kick drum in 1972 to make it sound like a soft pad, then it should sound that way in 2017. The same with the bass guitar, or cellos, or pipe organ music. What then would make one think that speakers should act any different?
I have the answer. It's that many manufacturers make sure that the bass is goosed when designing speakers. This becomes evident when you get to the lower-mids, and they just sound wrong. These speaker manufacturers posit that the overall ambiance of a recording is directly related to its bass response. They ask the question, "How can we make recordings sound fuller?" They aren't asking how we can make it "neutral" (if there is such a word), yet they certainly aren't asking many of the right questions.
Audiophiles then go into a listening session equipped with certain biases, because audiophiles read a great deal. Audio manufacturers know this, so they play up to it. We come to believe in a certain technology, and it's not that we're going in blindly like so many sheep; nevertheless, anyone who has been an audiophile for a number of years eventually whittles their sonic pleasures down to certain parameters, and a lot of that is predicated upon how the designers, the marketers, and even the record companies want us to hear the music.
So, we're back to subjectivity, right? Well, yes, but as subjective as our environment allows us to be, and that includes what audio gear we decided upon, or can afford, or whatever.
I'm speaking to @grannyring , too, in that, I think it's a great post. Moreover, it has me interested in possibly "upgrading" the DIs at a later time. Still, at least on the surface, you have both described a common malady associated with audio bias, especially a bias that has grown in favor since about 1992, i.e. let's squash the recording in the mastering phase, so that all of the instruments sound equal. Let's turn a wav into a brickwall, and let's put some more juice into that bass. Speaker and headphones manufacturers have since followed suit in order to cater to this new paradigm. Cable manufacturers (in their wisdom) have found a way to color the sound with their wire and insulation, using certain geometries, sub-atomic quark freezing, and precious metals. Room correction software is touted to eliminate the need for acoustic treatment; room correction does not.
I'm just saying, ask yourself, why would recording X have more bass than recording Y, and why do I expect them to have the same amount of bass?
I should point out that the parts in the $300 Upgrade are interesting. For a DIY dude these are a dream come true. Great design and bones!
Dayton $1.50 cap on tweeter Clarity PX cap on mid tweeters $8
The rest of the caps are all under $5 electrolytics. Bipolar generic types. The wire is all perhaps 18-20 gauge mill spec. All sand cast resistors.
The fact that these sound so good with these parts is a big testament to the wonderful design. They can be taken to another level easily.
When a builder is selling to hit a $3300 price point they really have no other choice in terms of parts quality. I would do the very same thing. Heck, they sound good as is. Amazing.
A lot has been posted here since last night. Fun times.
Yes Charles, I am having a ball with Aric's amp driving the DI's. Once things settle down on my end I'm looking forward to having you over for a listen. I think you'll like what you hear as I'm getting closer to the sound of your system....and that's a good thing!
Grannyring, thanks for sharing your thoughts on the DI's. I find it strange that some find the DI lacking in bass as don't at all. Maybe it's my room or my ears but would never describe the DI's as lean on bass but I respect your evaluation of them. I wish I had the guts to modify components like you do as it sounds like fun and it would be interesting hearing the results. Your use of the 10g WE wire is interesting, I only used 14g and 16g. You even modified your Lyngdorf? That's a product that is very intriguing. I looked into getting one but it being so unconventional and seemingly too good to be true made me shy at pulling the trigger on one. While I'm very happy with the sound I getting now, the Lyngdorf is crying out to me andi won't be gun shy next time. I wish you the best with your health, get well soon.
Teajay, thanks again for another great review. I'm glad my room isn't large enough for the Ulfbehrts since I can't afford them 🤑 I'll have to settle for the measly SE's ;)
@evolvist Absolutely agree! Definitely a subjective thing. I’ve just noticed that compared to other systems I’ve played with, the difference in low frequency output between certain recordings is more noticeable with the DI’s.
I think most people are biased with their listening traits. They like certain characteristics and base their purchasing and research to reflect that.
I can safely say I usually lean toward a speaker that is a touch low end heavy and artificially or not, warms up most recordings. But in saying that, I love a rich, real midrange and shimmering detailed highs to go along with that.
I want my cake and I want to eat it too. :) But I have no problem swapping/matching gear to achieve this. It’s all part of the fun for me. At this price range though, these are minor gripes.
Grannyring, many years ago I bought Norh 9, the shape of the speaker is a piece of art, The sound is ok, I decided to checked what kind of wire inside was use, this cause me to believe it’s a cheap wire, My friend replaced the old wire with siltech silver, the improvement was more than, I can I ask for , the Norh 9 did sound more highend, Then my friend Markr converted this speakers to Biwire.. the rest is history, modification is good, if you do it right.. Now back to DI as it is , it’s already good, Granny my mind tells me just get the original ...I need you wisdom and your advise here...thanks
Sorry about your health concerns, hope you get well soon.
I have spent many hours listening to standard, not modified AZ Cresendo Speakers and find them to be a wonderful musical speaker. If I had not purchased the Lawrence Audio Cello Speakers, which are just as musical and the equal of the AZ speakers, I would have considered buying a pair of Cresendo's for my reference system.
So, when you shared that the DI's are as good as a 20K speaker "is hyperbole in my humble opinion" with great vigor and passion I totally disagree with your position. I know I can be politically correct and go back to this all boils down to personal taste and a disagreement among gentleman. However, your statement represents to me the defensiveness of owners who can't accept that a very inexpensive product out performs their very expensive piece. I don't believe that the AZ speaker are any better then my Cello's, and before you retort that yours are modified and better-maybe so, and the standard DI's significantly out performed the Lawrence speaker in my system.
I also do not know what gear you drive your speakers with, I bring this up because I believe the AZ speakers are more for giving, they are slightly warm sounding overall, then the DI's, which are drop-dead neutral, and therefore this could also lead to different outcomes in tonality and bass response.
In my humble opinion, your statement is hyperbole regarding the hyperbole regarding what the Tekton speakers can compete with on the high-end market.
PS: There are at least three professional reviewers who have shared to me that they "are eating crow" because when they first read my review on the DI's they thought I was on the take or drinking laced Kool-Aid to say they were better then the Cello's, until they got to hear them with their own ears. All had reviewed or owned speakers above the 20K price range and admitted the DI's were at least as good or better then the much more expensive speakers.
Bill (Grannyring), I just want to say thanks for the characteristically nuanced, thorough, and well written comments you provided about the DI earlier today. And, more importantly, to express the hope that the unrelated issue you referred to resolves quickly and fully.
Hi Bill (Grannyring), I feel that your assessment of the Double Impacts is very astute. Having heard this speaker my impression matches yours. It is a very good sounding speaker. As you point out it isn’t perfect (nor is any speaker) but it has substantial modification potential.
Your scrutiny of the quality of the wire,resistors and capacitors is on the mark (given the part list you provided). You very fairly acknowledge the reasons for the stock parts and the reality of price point and market/manufacturing considerations. You and I both know that judicious selection of premium capacitors, wire, resistors etc can result in truly impressive sound quality improvement.
People upgrade passive parts in 30-40,000.00 peakers so it is not a put down of the Double Impact to suggest the same. Your budget of 1500.00 dollars to upgrade (if so desired) would transform a very good sounding speaker to an even higher level. Good post and advice.you provided to this thread. Charles
@Teejay, "There are at least three professional reviewers who have shared to me
that they "are eating crow" because when they first read my review on
the DI's they thought I was on the take or drinking laced Kool-Aid to
say they were better then the Cello's, until they got to hear them with
their own ears. All had reviewed or owned speakers above the 20K price
range and admitted the DI's were at least as good or better then the
much more expensive speakers".
Are these three reviewers reviewing the DI's for publication? Are they members on Audiogon? Can they post here? It would be nice to hear from the horse's mouth, so they can share their direct experience along with the speakers they compared the DI's to.
My heath is fine. My mental health suffers when on the Gon threads as I find they go nowhere due to closed mindedness among other things. I won’t go into it here. Many good folks on this thread and enjoy your DIs. I will take mine to a level beyond the SEs and see what that does. Should be fun, informative, and a labor of love.
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