Tekton Double Impacts

As one of the few people who have heard the DI SE version I must say 

Was just wondering if anyone reading this thread has any experience with the Theoretica Bacch 3D playback system?

Not sure what happened but the speakers have a wonderful and alive midrange that are quite enchanting. The speakers completely disappear and they image like crazy! I heard them at Ezra's with Teajay, Mike and Alan. As good as as the original Double Inpacts are (and they are very good!) the SE version are a bit more refined with a warm and organic midrange. They also image better. We heard them fresh from the box so I am anxious to hear them with a few hours on them. 

On on another note I must add that the Ulfs are incredibly huge! I have a picture of Teajay standing in between them with him being dwarfed by the Ulfs. I like large speakers but as good as they sound, they will not be everyone. For me the DI SE would be the sweet spot both financially and from a size perspective. In addition you can use a 2A3 single ended amp with the DI SE. For me that would be a central reason to go for this speaker over the Ulf. The 2A3 amp really didn't do the Ulf justice. Anyway, I would like to add that all these speakers do an amazing job for their relatively real world price. I have seen many speakers come through Teajay's sound rooms for review and from a price to performance ratio there is nothing even close to these speakers. If these speakers had a more advertised name they would be many times more expensive! To think you can have a great system with the microZOTL2 and the DI for less than $5K is truely amazing! It is a great time to be an audiophile!

Baranyi , I told my audiophile friend the same thing, it’s really great time to be audiophile , so many selection and good products , with a reachable price....Iam greatful....

@baranyi   Thanks so much for sharing your impressions from the listening session at Ezra's home.

Does @teajay  concur with your take on the 2A3 pairing with the Ulfs? It was my understanding that he feels the LTA Triode pairing is 'perfection' for his needs and preferences. 

What would your ideal pairing be for the SEs (preamp and amp)?

Thanks.

baranyi

That is also the issue for me in regards to the Ulfs. I LOVE the design with the double tweeter array but they are just too overwhelming. To be honest, the DI is larger than I'd like. But boy do they sound good!

David,
           Teajay does concur that the 2A3 amp does not seem to have enough juice for the Ulf. For some reason the imaging of the speaker was not conveyed correctly with the flea powered amp. It just bunched up between the speakers. When I heard it originally I thought there was something wrong with speaker's imaging abilities. With Aric Kt-88 amp the imaging was much better but the midrange wasn't quite as luscious with the Triode 2a3. It would be interesting to try a 211 amp with the Ulf or one of the Line Magnetic behemoth 219's. I still love the midrange of the 2A3 so I think that the DI SE would be my choice but the regular DI is darn good also for 3k! Ridiculously good for the money!
  I like romantic symphony music and Jazz and use old Beveridge Model 2 electrostatic speakers. I mention this just so you can know my bias in listening.
My wife is a professional singer so getting the midrange is key for me. I typically hate most rooms at the HIFI shows because they play HIFI over music. The DI and up the line can play music.
I want to give a plug for Mike at Audio Archon who is as true of an audiophile  as you ever will meet. You definitely are in good hands with him. He has great ears as an even better guy.

@mac48025 - It’s not so much about bass output or SPLs but closely matching the woofer with the servo amp which leaves the main amp to only drive the mids and tweeter.  Jim Salks Exotica 3 are a prime example of what I’m thinking about.  Will be exciting to see what Eric comes up with to further refine and mate with his excellent tweeter array.  

Good stuff baranyi!

Yes, baranyi (Bob) is correct regarding my personal favorites, here's a few more details:


1)  AS I have stated before on this thread the combination of the LTA Micro-ZOTL and the Triode Labs SET 2A3 is my reference for either the DI's or the SE's.  When I ran the experiment of driving the 2A3 with other preamps it became to "slow" and lost the speed/kick/dynamics that the Micro-ZOTL provides.  But, the combo/synergy between the two is heavenly on the DI's/SE's.

2)  However, on the Ulfberht's this combo still provided the beautiful tonality/timbres and "meat on the bone" 3D imaging, but the speakers themselves did not quite disappear in the sound-stage as the DI's did with this combo.  However, with the Micro-ZOTL and Aric's SET KT-88 on the Ulf's these big monsters completely vanish like there smaller siblings.

3)  Yes, I give up a very slight "romance/intimacy" in the mid-range, however, it's still very beautiful and then you get more precise imaging and as I mentioned the Ulf's do the disappearing act.  My hunch is that its not the wattage between the two amps or the type of tubes, but that Aric's amp drops more current then the 2A3 amp which controls the Ulf's better.  Remember the Ulf's are slightly more efficient then the DI's, so there not more power hungry,but there a lot more transducers to drive (total of 21). 

  

I was hoping the tweeters, midrange, and mid bass woofers were in a separate enclosure.

Clement Perry, publisher of The Stereo Times, provided a dose of reality for the many high priced speaker manufacturers in his show report on the Tekton DIs.  See http://v2.stereotimes.com/post/rmaf-2017-page-4.

@mikeg

Yup. I drive a Golf R and regardless of price the reality is that it is so much better than a McLaren P1 NOT!

@shadorne 

Have you heard any of the Tekton speakers, or are you just a fan of non sequiturs?

He Shadome,
Clement Perry has the Double Impacts in his listening room and with components he’s intimately familiar with. I’ve read numerous reviews by him over the years and if anything he tends to gravitate to and favor the higher cost upper end products.
He has been exposed to the very upper echelon of the audio high end.

So it seems his high regard for Tekton Double Impacts is sincere and certainly has context. You may not agree with his conclusions (which is fair) but he is a legitimate and very respected reviewer and listener (as is Teajay). Shadome what is your listening impressions of the Double Impacts and where do they fall short based upon your experience with them compared to the speakers you find preferable? What inspires the automobile analogy?
Thanks,
Charles

Waltersalas,
I just assumed that Shadome has listening experience with the Double Impacts but I certainly could be wrong. Otherwise how  could one express such a definitive opinion without actual listening contact? Again I may be working with an incorrect assumption. 
Charles

I think the DI's have laid to rest the idea that paying more for audio automatically gets you better sound. That's a big NOT! At least with the DI's you know you're not paying for a lot of marketing, advertising and overhead, but you do get what matters most.......great sound. 

The Aric Transcend amp is still burning in yet still sounds amazing. The combination of the LTA MZ2, Aric Transcend and DI's belies the notion that one needs to spend exorbitant amounts of money to obtain world class sound. 

@shadorne - you’re a troll

*sorry but you guys are too polite and I’m just not I’m the mood to sugarcoat it."

Hi Jcarcopo, 
For me it isn't a case of being "too" polite, I'm just asking him to support his comments.  Either he's heard the Double Impacts or he hasn't. I'm open to anyone's opinion on a forum such as this one. I don't expect everyone to agree with my listening impressions.  I do expect people to present a reasonable or credible basis for their comments. That’s all. 
Charles 

Guys this is this is my first post here in Audiogon. I am based in India. I am primarily a vinyl guy. I have the Rethm Saadhana V 3 speakers and a custom made Berning class A zero feedback fully balanced 6b4g ZOTL 10 Watt amp. The 6b4g tube is basically a 2a3 in an octal.

I just placed my order for a DI SE.

I would personally like to thank Teajay, Mike, Charles1dad and obviously Eric for guiding me in my purchase

Wow, high praise, indeed, from Clement Perry. 

@charles1dad 

Hi Charles,
Ordinarily, I would make the same assumption, especially with a member with Shadorne's lengthy track record here. On the other hand, the "Tekton backlash" seems to have inspired quite a lot of comments made by people who admit that they have never heard the speakers. Strange and curious behavior, I'd say. Hopefully, Shadorne will give us the benefit of us experience.

In the meantime, I am leaning toward auditioning the SE, if Eric will allow a similar audition period to the Double Impacts. I would love to hear how they compare and perhaps improve upon these wonderful speakers.

Being polite is a good thing. Maybe discounting him as a troll prematurely was myopic on my part.

@baranyi   and @teajay   Thanks for the additional information and commentary. Very helpful! 

Any thoughts regarding a parallel 2A3 (paired with the SE)? I believe Triode offers one and perhaps Aric is open to building one?

@manati   I enjoyed reading your write-up on your new DIs. Thanks for sharing your system and your experience. Great remark regarding "The law of maximizing return"  

Don't have the DI's but just took delivery of their Enzo XL's. I'm still in the process of experimenting with different positioning, trying different feet...etc but I can say this from first hand experience, brand new and right out of the box they sound great and sound as good as other speakers I have heard costing 10X as much. I imagine they are only going to get better with age and proper adjustments. Paid less than $2000 for them so I'm sure there are audiophiles out there who won't even consider them because something that cheap can't possibly be good. I had a budget of $15,000 for new speakers but decided to give these a chance because I couldn't ignore the number of rave reviews all over the internet. The remaining $13000 I still have is still in my bank account and not someone else's.

Hi Premnath,
Congratulations on getting the Double Impact SE and I believe that they will mate in  excellent fashion with your amplifier. No regrets in my opinion.

Hi Walter,
Your Line Magnetic 508ia with the SE versions? I honestly believe this would be an extraordinary pairing, no doubt whatsoever 😊
Charles

Congrats premnath. Like you I value the opinions of teajay, Mike and Charles and it's led to some great purchases on my part, with the DI SE's being the latest and I'm anxiously awaiting their arrival. The DI's are the best soundings speaker I've owned to date and I look forward to hearing the SE's in my system. 

David, I believe Aric is up for building just about any tube amp you might want and more importantly he's capable of doing so. I absolutely love his Transcend KT 120 but just might have him build me a 2A3 SET for something different.

These reviewers have lost all credibility same as if Top Gear said that a Fiat Arbath is as good as a Porsche 911 GT3 or any number of high end performance cars.

Thanks Charles.

Thanks Mac48025. You should probably also look at the Berning amp using the 6b4g tube. It’s zero feedback class A ZOTL amp and uses quite a bit of the technology found in his uber expensive 211/845 amp. The 6b4g is basically a 2a3 in an octal. In the past I have owned a 2a3 amp with Dave Slage nickel based output transformers, nickel based interstage  transformers and chokes. 

In the Berning 64bg amp you get all the magic of the 2a3. 

He sells this amp direct. It’s a hand made amp. So you don’t get a great looking finished product but that’s more than made up with the quality of the sound. Incidentally this is the amp Berning uses for his personal listening. 

Do I detect a case of car envy here?

So any reviewer that prefers an audio component over a vastly more expensive one has no credibility? The status quo, rubber stamp positive reviews of the big name, big money products lack credibility in my eyes. 

Now onto the real question shadorne, which has been asked previously, just what actual listening experience of the DI's do you have? Mine are painted in Mercedes Diamond Black, I suppose that will make them sound better? 🤑

A reviewer can prefer what they want but making ridiculous claims destroys their credibility. The car analogy is clear. A cheap but sporty little car does not outperform all the best high end cars in the world no matter if it may be much better value for going from A to B.

Tekton DI may be great value. DI is the world's best speaker regardless of price NOT.

I take it as a personal compliment when someone like Shadorne,regardless of his intent or motivation, puts me down as a reviewer.

Of course his statement proves I'm an idiot to sell off 19K speakers and get better performance for 3K!

Thank you, Shadorne

I admire Terry (Teajay) for comparing Double Impact 3k, to those more expensive speakers, Because some owners of expensive speakers, will not take it or they will become defensive on their purchase, I totally understand that...BUT for me if this Double Impact are better than my Andra I, I would be very happy, because it will benefit me, I will end up having two good speakers, iam too open minded to just be greaful on Eric new design speaker....with respect to Shadorne , I respect Terry more after the Double Impact review....my question is would other stereo magazine will let the reviewer say what Terry’s finding that this Double Impact is much better than much more expensive one? My own guess is no....

Shadorne 

Any reviewer that prefers the sound of audio gear that is vastly less expensive than the uber expensive gear lacks credibility?

If expensive cars outperform less expensive cars then expensive audio gear must outperform less expensive gear? 

These points don't sound ridiculous? 

Btw, your silence is deafening. You fail to share your personal listening experience of the DI's that allow you to make the satement that any reviewer that expresses an opinion that the DI's outperform speakers costing many times more lacks credibility. Please, share your wealth of experience with the DI's that allow you to state they can't sound as good as more expensive speakers. 

@teajay 

Whoa! Where did that come from. Someone sells a Porsche GT3 and gets a nice little hot hatch for 20% of the price is making a sensible decision. The cheaper little hot hatch is adequate and much better value. Totally rational. Sensible decision.

The incredulous claim is the owner claiming a month later that the little hot hatch performs better than the GT3 and everything else on the high end market.

So from your car analogy I guess I can assume a Rolex keeps time better than a Casio. Not sure what sports cars have to do with speakers. One is a complex mechanical machine whose performance can be fully be measured and explained. 

Oh oh, looks as though we have reviewers reviewing other reviewers.

Can someone explain how cars have anything to do with audio? I must be missing something. 

There is a snob factor in both. I used to be a car collector. Had like 18 european cars at one time. Lots of snobs. If its an expensive car it must be better than an inexpensive car. And look at how much MY car cost!

I see lots of it in hi-fi too. Right now the Alfa is getting some reviewers to say that it is the best handling sedan made. However, that can't be right because there are more expensive sedans out there. Silly reviewers. We don't even need them. Just look at the price tags. It saves everyone lots of effort. And it helps the snobs keep score. I don;t need to drive any cars or listen to any speakers. I just have to know how much they cost. Keeps things very tidy.

@shadorne 

I will admit to venturing a guess here.

There is but one person finding your recent posts of any value.

    LP

Dear Shadorne,

Respectfully, you're car analogy is flawed. Here's an accurate comparison and frankly it's how I roll, design, think, live, and create. 

The link below contains a car that costs $99K than anyone can own. This car is built less than 2 miles from my facility - I see the cars on the road here. This car, in the hands of the right team owner and driver will go toe-to-toe with every multi-million dollar super car ever built - period - end of the discussion!

http://www.kirkhammotorsports.com/products427kms.shtml

Personally, I want to go as fast as hell and I want to do it right; for this purpose... there's nothing better. This car costs $100K and a super Ferrari costs $3,000,000. What gives??!! I say Ferrari has it ALL WRONG not Kirkham. Furthermore, I could literally bolt in a lightweight aluminum power-plant producing in excess of 1600 horsepower into this car for and additional $95K - for a total investment under $200K. I could do all of the work alone, and I could do it in a day or two of labor. Respectfully, what would you guess a 1600bhp Ferrari engine would set a guy back... and could he do the work alone?!

The above analogy is spot-on and it's how I approach audio. In other words... no one needs to spend crazy money to get the best sound out there.   

Have a fantastic weekend!

Eric Alexander - audio designer   

I guess a car is not the right analogy.
how abot wine.
subjective, different taste... use same grape, same region.
i may enjoy more a Joseph Phelps than a screamin Eagle.
i may simply find a wine maker of great talent doing his magic and creating a wine that many people prefer over the $2,000 bottle and pay $25.

Agreed, wine too is another perfect analogy. When YG Acoustic ran their "best sounding speaker on earth" campaign 10 years ago I called him on it (through emails) and I used the wine analogy. I felt it was like a wine producer saying: "I simply make the best tasting wine on earth - period". Furthermore, I asked him: "if you make the best sounding speaker on earth which one is it...?? After all, you have no fewer than 3 speaker models." When you say you have the best sounding speaker on earth it  must be one single model, right? The dialog between us progressed and we each agreed upon a head-to-head winner-take-all shootout. I'm ready to go on my end, but it hasn't happened.   

Like wine sound is so subjective. Some of us are musicians and we know what live sound is because we live it and we crave this exact sound reproduced in our hi-fi systems. On the opposite end of the spectrum, some audiophiles prefer a warm, liquid, fluid presentation; this is so far removed from real live dynamic music, yet it's such a beautiful expression of art.  

Eric Alexander - audio designer    

I will come to the defense of @shadorne  's post for a number of reasons most of which I sincerely believe (my opinion) are for the benefit of this thread and those who own Tekton speakers, and not the post per se.

He clearly makes the comparison of high value vs absolute performance, which is evident in the first post. I think all of us can agree on this, whether a car analogy is used or not.

It is fair of us to ask him to elaborate and for those so inclined, who expect more, to substantiate. He did. His position is a general one. Nothing wrong with that. Many active here have made similar general statements about any number of topics / components / etc. and some even based on a lack of first hand or in-depth experience (but on experience of the field). These don't get challenged simply because they have been supportive.

His post generated a natural and understandable reflex --- I have no problem with that and I do understand it and why it happens --- but I do wonder how we ultimately benefit when those following (which is far, far greater than those posting) hesitate from participating when it is clear what the natural reaction to posts that question these speakers, or issues around it, will elicit?

It's also obvious that some who were previously active here and collaborated to the greater good of this thread are conspicuously absent of late.

Our behaviour, and I include all posting here, drives the evolution of this thread.

I personally would like to learn from those who do not see or hear things the way I do. The only way I see this being possible is to be open and not as reactive as all of us have at times been, myself included.

Eric, et al.,
I too prefer the sound of the impact, (Double Impact)  ; ) of live music. The best sound, to me, is the true sound of ACOUSTIC instruments. That is the benchmark. ALL amplified music has coloration and the difficulty is in reproducing acoustic music via electronic delivery systems, and here is my point. With my current system, BAT and DI there really aren't any live broadcast systems that come anywhere near what I have in my living room. It used to be that I could enjoy this quality of music in Weil Hall at Sonoma State University but alas no more. The new director has wreaked havoc on the sound system there. ALL music amplification outside my house is a huge step down for me unless it is acoustic performance. My dream? I would love to see Eric produce a line of speaker for night clubs, small venues, stages, etc. that will rival my couch sound!!! Why must we endure the torture of terrible music everywhere when the possibility of great sound at a reasonable cost exists? I am forever ruined!

Shadorne, 
In   an earlier post today I asked you to share your listening impression of the Double Impacts.  It seems clear that you have no actual direct listening experience with these speakers. Your car analogy is simply a function of how you believe things should be as opposed to how they may actually be. 

Audio is simple in this regard,  you listen to a product and form an opinion.  Subjective? It's all that we have,  you must hear something in order to properly judge its merit and performance. You present no factual basis for your Double Impact assessment.  Apparently you've determined that you have it figured out based on their cost and nothing more. 

As mentioned above byVitop and I raised a couple of weeks ago,  there is a strong element of snobbery in High End audio amongst some. You appear to fall into this niche.  You haven't heard the Double Impact and likely feel that you don't need to.  You've determined its sonic performance based solely on its cost.  Not a rational position in my opinion. 
Charles 

david_ten,

Loved your: "I personally would like to learn from those who do not see or hear things the way I do." line.

When a client returns a pair of speakers to me he usually has a lot to say about it. His feedback is the most valuable piece of information I can be fed. I take that feedback and go back to work on the speaker and make the proper adjustments. 

Eric   

greg22lz,

We'll be working on it...

Eric  

David,
I respectfully disagree with your post 😊. This has been and continues to be an open thread with different viewpoints and experiences expressed. No rule says we all must agree (and we don’t). You wrote that we see and "hear" differently and that is true. Keyword is hear. So what has Shadorne heard regarding the DI to base his opinion on?

Of course he’s free to post comments here and by the same token people are free to ask for clarification or some modicum of substance to support what he writes. Is this asking too much? To me this is what dialogue is all about. How is he in a position to judge performance of a product he has never heard? How is this enlightenment?
Charles