Yeah this is a great thrtead and I hope I,m not too late to get some advice as well. I have been researchinmg what table to purchase after my LP-12. I listen to jazz 90%. I too will make a purchase to some extent influenced by the Agon community because it is difficult to audition tables. So far my research has drawn me to Avid, Brinkman, and Galibier. So can someone attempt to help me understand the sonics of these choices. I truly enjoyed my Linn sound, but I am now being drawn to a more neutral/open sound, I have Magies so they will reveal everything. I love the big soundstage with slam as well.
I am interested in the Tri-Planar/SME V arms. I also am curious about the Zyx/Shelter carts in this new system. P.S. My phono stage is an ARC-PH3, but the Rhea is being auditioned as I write this. Thoughts? |
I truly enjoyed my Linn sound, but I am now being drawn to a more neutral/open sound, ....
I love the big soundstage with slam as well. Xagwell, It sounds like you want it all! ;-) As between ZYX and Shelter, the ZYX lineup is more neutral and open. Neutrality and seamlessness are the first things everyone notices when they first hear one, and that impression does not fade with time. No colorations, no bloat, no artificial blooming of notes. The ZYX soundstage has more depth, width and perceivable dimensions. ZYX's also image better than Shelters. This is partly due to their more modern stylus profile and partly due to the excellent channel separation of the coil windings. OTOH, at comparable price points (901 vs. R100 Fuji, 90x vs. Airy 3) the Shelter cartridge will have more raw slam. The Shelter's leading edge transients will be more aggressive. Bass power goes to the Shelter, bass tunefulness and texture go to the ZYX. OTOOH, if you can afford a UNIverse then the contest is over. Shelter does not make a cartridge that comes anywhere close, in any sonic parameter. TriPlanar VII and SME V are both great arms. TriPlanar gives you the advantage of easy height adjustment, which many find critical with modern styli. SME gives you superb build and finish, and easier fine-tuning of VTF. Search for my thread called "TriPlanar Tips" if you want a sense of what living with that arm is like. Good luck and happy hunting, Doug |
Xagwell, I replaced my VPI several years back with my earlier version Redpoint/Galbier. Prior to the VPI I had an LP12. What I found when I switched to the Galbier is the background was much quieter and images were more solid. There was a huge improvement in dynamics both micro and macro. I listen to mostly jazz as well and feel the Galibier is far superior to my previous tables. I am not familiar with the Avid and Brinkman tables and can not comment on how they may compare. |
Dear Xagwell: Dmailer already answer ( first hand ) your question about sonics on TTs. All those TTs are very similar performers and maybe the choice will have to do with: which one like you more, manufacturer support, price, build quality, guarantee, it can accomodate 2-3 tonearms?, etc, etc. I like the Galibier all metal model.
About the cartridges this choice have to make along with the tonearm. Like Doug post the TP and SME are very good designs, I prefer the SME V and mate very well with the 90X, Sumiko Celebration, Dynavector XV-1 or Allaerts cartridges ( these ones are really special cartridges ). Btw, the Sumiko Celebration was voiced using the SME tonearm so it will be a great match with it. About the Shelter cartridges Doug post: +++++ " The Shelter's leading edge transients will be more aggressive ... " +++++, well in my experience this is a " real music " characteristic and a plus to have at home.
It is nice to " see " that you care too about the Phonopreamp. You have to go here too with almost " the best " one because the Phonopreamp is the most/critical/important subject in the quality music sound analog reproduction.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Thanks for your feedback. As usual this community really cares and is encouraging when one is attempting to ascend the equipment ladder. SO you may be shocked by the following: As you know I am currently auditioning a Rhea. Just for kicks I un-packed my old JVC 301 amp (with built in equalizer) and Yamaha P 320 TT with a Grado Black. For those who don't know this equipment is approx 28 yrs old. This was my first equipment post undergrad. I also had a pair of Graphyx SP-10 speakers. anyway using the Rhea I A/B the LP-12/Glider and Yamaha/Grado Black. I also A/B the LS-15 and JVC. Folks, truly the JVC/Yamaha, on one hand was fantastically better than I ever remembered, and on the other hand something I can never return to because I have become a critical listener. Given the sound of the JVC/Yamaha there is no way I would spend what I spend now on this stuff. That stated people in general are not critical listeners, and this is one of the biggest challenges to high end audio. So let's go forth and infect peolple with our passion for the music, and the prices will go down for all of us. I will now surrender the podium. |
Xagwell,
This is a bit OT but I can assure you that you will be able to improve on the already great sound of the Rhea with some tube rolling should you decide to keep that Rhea.
I'm currently trying to put together a Denver trip to hear both the Galibier and Teres. Thom and I have started the process. I'm still trying to contact Chris. The excitement is really building around my house! |
Dan_ed,
Do you plan to bring one back with you? Audition and carry, that 's way to go. |
Hey Dan good luck on your trip. If I had the time I'd join you!!!! It looks like I am leaning toward the Galibier or Teres with a Schroder arm myself! Keep us posted! |
Guys, if any of you can join me it looks like my trip will be no earlier than the last week of April. It is very exciting! As of this post I have been in touch with both Thom and Chris. I can't tell you what I don't know but it seems there is a very good possibility that new and promising developments will be available from both Thom and Chris. There is always more fun in numbers so if any one else can, please let me know so that we can coordinate. |
Hey Xagwell, you should fall in love with the Rhea!! I have mine (no tube rolling on mine Dan) over a year and it replaced an ARC PH3 SE (pretty good phono amp itself). The difference was like putting the flesh on some very strong bones! The Rhea created the sence of the concert hall air. A bit difficult to describe but never the less you will (or should) hear the difference and like what you hear.
Dan, are both Thom and Chris located in Denver?? |
Hi Rich. Yes. It seems when you get towards the northwestern side of Denver you would end up about half way between Teres and Galibier based on my current understanding of where these guys are located. If we assume a weekend trip this is probably 30-45 min. max between. I'm also assuming a decent motel location, which by my research is not a problem at all. |
Cello,
Thanks very much for your input. Unfortunately, I'm having trouble responding to your email. Perhaps try to respond through the A'gon system and that will work? I do look forward to hearing from you.
Dan |
Thanks Rwd. I noticed a more forward presentation/increase soundstage out of the box. Critical listenibg won't occur for approx 100 hours/this Tues. I still think it would be wise to purchase the TT/Arm/Cart 1st, live with PH-3 for a bit, then by the Rhea. A dealer said that the Io is in a completely different league. He says it even betters the ARC Ref Phono stage. Hmmmm? |
HI guys - being the person who started this thread I thought I'd keep you up to date on my decision making and fact gathering. First, I've yet to make any analog changes but I've added a power conditioner and super tweeters. Strange but true. But what is amazing is that the combination of these two budget tweeks have improved my sound a real lot. The conditioner (Chang Lightspeed) has blackened the background with no apparent strangling of dynamics. The super tweeters have improved the overall imaging and coherence, not really just the high treble.
Where I'm leaning analog wise is to keep my Avid table and upgrade my motor and cartridge when budget allows. After all my fact finding, without hearing a damn thing, I dont believe an approximate 8K investment in a high mass table will give me a high enough percent improvement to warrent the bucks. Believe me, I'd like to see a 150 pound table on my rack but opinions are down the middle on the above questions. But tomorrow I may change my mind. |
BTW-Cello,if you are following this.I lost your E-mail address,so have not contacted you,other than phone,and I do realise you are a busy guy,and maybe not a "phone guy".Sorry!I wanted to buy the "guitar/singer" who's album you played,but the web-site you gave me isn't available,to me.That being said,I do get the impression,sadly, of us kind of losing touch,as I did make attempts to stay in touch.I did call you recently,but am not going to second guess any lack of return calls,based on my last attempts,and don't want to get too analytical.Hope none of my post stuff was the culprit,and you seemed way above that,anyway(though the timing of my "dumb period" was not too good),as I do believe I made it my business to be nothing but complementary, of you personally.Always!!So,I will let all this go,with this post,but do admit to being somewhat surprised(mainly because you were a nice host,and a good dude overall)!!.Hope all is well!
Best!
|
Since Cello's moniker has been brought up, I've been trying to reach you off and on as well, like for the last year! And I live in South Florida!! Cello/Larry, are you alive or do you have a beard typing for you? |
I wanted to resurrect this post just to let people know that there is a date planned, May 13, for a Rumble in the Rockies! On tap is half a day of Galibier and half a day of Teres, with some special Schroeder sauce and TriPlanar garnishments thrown in.
Also, and most special, is the chance to meet many of the Denver area audiophiles.
Anyone who can is more than welcome join in! |
I'm going to see my first Galibier table today. I'll report on my impressions tonight. |
Hi Richard,
Are you still considering or just curious.
Dan |
Hi Richard....I'm all ears!!!!
Dan, I am going to see what I can do that weekend. Another 'goner may be interested also. I have to check the schedules with everyone in the house! |
Just one correction Dan ... NO Rumble with any of these turntables.
I just put up a Boulder Travelog page if anyone is interested in attractions in our wonderful town.
Currently, you can only reach this page from the small thumbnail photo of Boulder on the left side of the home page.
Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier |
Well, I spent 3 hours listening to the Galibier Gavia with a Moerch arm and a Van Den Hull Black Beuty. Black background and a very tight sense of image focus. It's tough to point out the sonic attributes of the table because all of the electronics were of very high quality as well. But the Galabier was solid and very nicely machined. I was impressed. Because of the seperate motor unit, your rack will require a minimum 23" base to hold both components. My Sistrum rack, as is, would only hold the table. |
Haha! Didn't think about table rumble. I was worried some would think there was going to be fisticuffs! |
Rich, where did you hear the Galibier table?? |
A guy in South Florida (Sanibel Island). Nice set-up. |
Hi Richard,
I'm working on a self-leveling 18 x 24 shelf that can sit on top of an existing equipment rack.
The minimum shelf size for these 'tables is actually 16" x 22". The Teres, BTW can get by with approximately the same footprint. To help you visualize how a Galibier (or Teres for that matter) sets up, I put together the following drawing to show the footprint:
http://www.galibierdesign.com/faqs_shelf_size_22_16.html
You can easily visualize overlaying the Teres teardrop shape over this image.
Al in Sanibel is running a very nice Micro Seiki MA-505 Mk III tonearm until his Schröder arrives. This particular Micro is not the last word in resolution, but it is indeed a very nice tonearm - getting the core of the music very right.
Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier |
Thom - Thanks for responding. I really liked your table. Do you think your platform will effect sonics negatively in any way? |
Hi Richard...one more question about the Gavia table you heard. What platter was it using: the Selac, Gavia or Stelvio?? Much appreciated! |
RWD - The platter was the graphite Stelvio. Nicely machined and slick looking. The table was an anodized gray. Understated, not striking. Redpoint's red anodizing looks more nifty to me. But it's just aesthetics. BTW, Thom's right about the Micro Seiki arm. My mistake. |
Please see my comments under "Schroeder vs Tri-Planer Vll sonic differences" Thank you! |
Wishing Dan_ed well!!!!!
Dan is off to Denver for a shootout of Galibier-Teres-Schroder-Tri-Planer and maybe more this weekend. I know we will ALL benefit from his trip! I wish him a good safe, happy time and I awiat a full report for us all when he returns....boy now isn't that pressure!!
Rick |
Rick! You dirty rat! (My best James Cagne!) :)
I'm posting here from Denver, up before the rooster since I'm still on eastern time. Just to be clear I don't really see this as a shootout so much since there won't be a a/b in the same system with all other components being the same. I think of it more as some really great auditions of choice quality stuff.
I'll try to post this weekend but in reality it may not be until monday. |
|
Dan,remember to use the "light side of the force",once you start to audition!!The "dark side" may try to influence you,but you MUST remember you will have a captive audience upon return.The responsibility to post something with real "meat" must be overwhelming -:)!!
Rick,what happened to the Shindo Garrard,you were considering?
Best of luck!!
|
Hi Sirspeedy......the audition of the Shindo/Garrard is a month away. I will call you and we can see it together. But, I can't wait for Dan's reviews ...oh the perssure.....he may be holding my analog future in his hands........oh the pressure....heheheheh! |
Boy,are we fanatical geeks,or what??!No wonder my wife or kids have absolutely no interest in this stuff!!
That just leaves "little old me" to lose myself in my pathetic dedicated room,and "bathe" in the plethora of varied music,that I've picked up over the years.Heard on a system that I've "tinkered" with,to the point of exhaustion!And have come to LOVE!As all of us fellow fanatical geeks have succombed to!
We are a "sorry,and incredibly happy lot"!!Are we not??
Best! |
I just found this thread and the references to my comments on my audition of the Teres 360 and Galibier tables last year.
First, I've owned Koetsu cartridges for 20 years and have a fond affection for their lushness. When I heard the Teres dem, the overall tonal presentation was fine and I've enough experience to make allowances for the cartridge.
For me the difference between the 360 and the Galibier was that the Teres didn't have the same leading edge clarity and natural decay of the notes in the lower registers - it was kind of smeary.
The way I characterized it at the time was that it sounded like the bass player was playing behind the beat. This was particularly apparent on complex rock music. Ymmv.
If Chris has improved the line then I look forward to hearing for myself at RMAF in October. |
I'm not telling you guys nuttin' without yooze each send a small donation to my favorite charity. That being me. For an extra $5 I've give the audiophile approved cryo'd version.
I'll probably post something tonight. I want to get my thoughts together as there was just so much to take in. The trip was very, very much worth it! |
Dan,
I hope you had a chance to compare the Triplanar to the Schroeder Ref!
Andrew |
Andrew,Dan never made a Triplanar vs Shroeder Ref comparison,because the Shroeder Ref actually doesn't exist!!
Of course that could change,should CELLO("CALLING CELLO")decide to come out of hibernation and report on what was told to me.Which was he was to get a REF,in March!He has a 2.2 too,so I'd love to have him update us!
PLEEEASE!!
Best! |
Hi Andrew,
Dan spent from about 10am until 5pm chez Galibier. We listened to:
1. Schröder / ZYX Universe
2. Triplanar / Dynavector XV-1s
3. Schröder / Dynavector XV-1s
We ran out of time for the 4th permutation.
We'll let Dan report on his vist both to me and Chris.
BTW, there were indeed very few constants between Chris' and my rigs other than tonearms and cartridges.
One other shared reference point is the Artemis Labs phono stages (PH-1, PL-1) which both Chris and I love.
Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier |
Thom,
That sounds great. Looks like you covered all of the key bases. I'm looking forward to the report from Dan. Sorry I couldn't make it this time.
Andrew |
Saturday in Denver was, if nothing else, a tremendous amount of fun for me. As you can imagine, traveling almost 3700 miles in one weekend is very tiring and it really took a toll on my wife and me on the way home. Flight delays and cancellations put us back in New Hampshire about 4 hours late. Add to that the fact that we came home to a state of emergency due to some intense rain and subsequent flooding. But we dodged the floods and washouts and made it without serious mishap. We're high and dry but there are many people around us that are going through a very diffcult time up here.
I'll try to hit my main impressions here and then continue with follow up posts because I know more memories will pop as the conversation flows.
As Thom mentioned, I spent good deal of time with his system. We did go through the arm/cartridge combinations he mentioned and I do have some thoughts and observations on those but I want to first get out my impressions of the tables that I heard. I have had the pleasure of hearing Doug Deacon's Teres 320/Triplanar/UNI no too long ago so I was over the initial first impressions of how massive these table are. The first thing I noticed was how much these tables, both Teres and Galibier, just completely remove themselves from the sound. Both at Thom's and again at Chris's some less than pristine LP's were played, because what good is a table that won't allow you to also enjoy those 25 cent garage sale records as well as the expensive audiophile LPs. All of the tables I heard did an excellant job here. So you get to have fun with these tables as well.
I must admit that I did bring some expectations with me concerning what I thought I would hear between an all wood table and an all metal table. There are differences in the sound to be sure, but perhaps not near as much as one might expect. The Galibier, the Stelvio model, was very dynamic across the entire range. Nothing unexpected here at all. Lots of attack and plenty of decay with cymbals. Bass was very detailed and controlled. Several times I heard that bass string growl I'm always listening for.
What makes it tough is that I heard much of the same from the Teres 320. I do think there is a smoothing effect that may be the characteristic Teres sound. Keep in mind I'm trying to relay what I heard from the tables in two different systems and with a good two hours in between. I should also point out that the 320 was set up with a Moerch DP 6. No slouch at all but no where near the dynamics of the Triplanar and DPS. I think it possible to totally screw up the presentation of either table with the wrong arm and cartrige. Naturally, screw up is entirely subjective but I have no doubt that both tables will give you exactly what you ask for.
If you haven't caught on by now here it is. I'm not going to decide this for anyone because I can't even do that for myself at this point. If I take a bit off of the Stelvio to get to to the Gavia (I have not heard the Gavia) and then try to hold that up against the 320, now try to compesate for two different systems and rooms. I cannot make a real stand either way. Everyone is going to have a slight preference one way or the other. Anyone considering Galibier and Teres (Redpoint as well) owes it to themselves to make the trip out and hear for themselves which table they might prefer. If nothing else you get to meet two of the nicest people you could ever hope to meet. They would be Chris's and Thom's wives! They're both good guys, too.
Here's some even more fun stuff. Chris has a new, all Birch model (280 I believe) that is really cool to watch spin. The platter is made from the good, multi-layered, cabinet grade birch plywood sandwiched between birch hardwood top and bottom. Nicknamed "The Blonde", it gives this iredescent strobe effect as the end grain spins by. Some of us are quite sure there are subliminal messages implanted within. This table has the characteristic Teres smoothing but it is a step down in dynamics from the 320. But it is also a big step down in cost. Really could be something of interest to the mid-market owners looking to upgrade.
Here is where the rubber hits the road. The most profound experience of the weekend for me was the new Teres Direct Drive 380! Hands down the best sound of any table I heard. The attack and tempo this new beastie puts out is awesome! Dynamics were very good but I expect this since there was Schroeder Reference and ZYX Universe mounted on it. These don't account for the obvious superiority in timing. Naturally, the cost is much higher starting around $9K. Every genre was played on this table and it just powered right through them. Classical, jazz, piano, mandolin, big band, even Stevie Ray Vaughn could not make the 380 even break a sweat. Chris says he has some more improvements to make to the controller and the final form of the platter and plinth to get to where he believes the table has the potential to go. |
Dan,
Great report. Glad to hear you made it home okay and that you're high enough not to be flooded. We didn't think about it when we bought our home, but I'm glad we chose one on a ridge line and not down in some valley bottom. Some of our neighbors are suffering, though some of yours are suffering more.
CB told us about his DD project over a year ago and I've been biting my tongue. I kinda wish you'd said it was no big deal. Sigh...
Just out of curiosity, how much bigger/taller/wider is the 380 compared to a 320. (I'm hoping you'll tell me it's the size of a refrigerator, so I'll have a reason to stop thinking about it!)
Regards to you and your incredibly patient wife,
Doug |
Dan,
Sounds like it was quite the experience. The rains up north were serious.
You listened to two of the finest TT's. Their high mass, solid design and excecution should should create many similarities as you noted. The fun part is that you're picking from the finest and either way you go you'll be at the very best end of the spectrum.
Andrew |
Doug, I thought of you and Paul right off the bat when I heard the pacing of the 380. Sorry to give you the bad news, but you guys need to start saving your spare change for this one. I would say the difference easily surpasses the differences between Nick's pre/phono and the Aesthetix gear by an order of magnitude. Chris has a pot on the controller to vary the torque so we had to play with that. It was very easy to hear the effect that excess torque had on the leading edges. All of us agreed that he should have that adjustment on the finished controller, perhaps with a much smaller range of torque adjustment. The 380 was about the same size as a 320. I wish I had remembered to take a few pictures although it is probably better that I didn't because Chris is not happy with the look. But,hey, it's a prototype. I believe it weighs around 120#.
Andrew, SirSpeedy is correct in that we did compare the Triplanar with a DPS. This is just my opinion, but I would go with the Triplanar for no other reason than it is much easier to adjust. The Schroeder is very well thought out and elegant in it's simplicity. Thom was able to tweak the DPS with the Dynavector so that it was very close to the same sound as the Triplanar/Dynavector. It did seem that the Schroeder was not quite up to controlling the edge attacks with piano stikes, but Thom and I both think that it could be done with some diligence in tweaking. The Universe did seem to lack a little dynamically compared with the XV-1s on the same arm. But I heard a very different result latter on at CB's open house. Now, if someone wants to wait for a Schroeder just be aware that the lead time is much greater than it used to be.
Another observation concerning the ZYX Universe. I realize that the arm used has a great deal to do with the outcome, but any talk of the Universe being somewhat slow or rolled-off is not what I heard at all using CB's Reference. This combo was also mounted on the torque monster 380. I can't explain why the Universe I heard at Thom's seemed to lack some dynamics. It could be that it is a better match with the Ref or it could be that the increase in torque unlocks the transient response. The Dynavector gives the Zyx a good run and costs good deal less. |
Dan,
The 320 and 380 are about the same size? Egad! You'll have to help us out my friend. I just mailed Nick some RatShack resistors for your new preamp and suggested he wire it with lamp cord, instead of that exotic stuff he normally uses. He thanked me for a great cost-control idea and - here's the good news - he's splitting the savings with me. Woo-hoo! We're on our way to a 380! ;-)
Interesting differences you heard between Thom's UNIverse and Chris's. If Thom's was set up on a DPS while Chris's was on a Ref, that alone would cause dynamic differences. The Ref has more powerful magnets. In our direct comparisons at Cello's it had more stability on big dynamic hits and a lower noise floor on trailing edge decays. The DD table probably contributed also, as you said. |
It's my humble opinion that of the 4 permutations we wanted to listen to on Saturday, the one we didn't get to (Triplanar/ Universe) is the best combination for the Universe. Please see my comments below about mass matching caveats, and the fact that my Ebony Schröder Reference has an 18 gram effective mass.
Everything I've heard tells me that the attributes of the Triplanar and Universe is a match made in heaven. Given that no component is perfect, I'd say that both Triplanar and Dynavector are slightly stronger in "incisiveness factor", while Schröder and ZYX are slightly more about tone color.
Now, the ZYX is fast, and the Dynavectors have tone, so don't take the above comment to the extreme. Realize that this is a broad, sweeping generalization as all 4 products perform to a very high level.
Only when you listen side by side will you hear a difference and will you come to a preference.
I don't know what went on at Chris' house, but I suspect that his Edgarhorns played a significant role in the different results.
I speak from experience of both of the Edgarhorns as well as of my soon to depart Exemplar horns. Before switching to my new Azzolina Audio horns, I would have considered the Edgars/Exemplars to have a correct presentation. Every other cone driver based, front-loaded horn has had tubby colorations. Not so with the Azzolinas, but I digress. Again, we're talking about 3 speaker systems that perform to the level of the arms and cartridges in question, but having said that, this is all about small but significant differences.
Rather than take a side trip into this topic, I think that this worth a rant on my Rants Page - the perilous journey into low power triodes and horns. To quote someone I once used to correspond with: "it's a long and dangerous journey ... bring plenty of milk and cookies".
So ... once again, the poor audiophile is in system matching hell - given the inherent flaws in any transducer (be it a cartridge or a speaker). If it were only more simple, we could make global proclamations. Forums like this give us the opportunity to triangulate on combinations that make magic.
Now that I have what I consider to be speakers that lend a slightly more even hand to the music, I am beginning to ponder whether an 18 gram Ebony Schröder Reference is a bit too heavy for the Universe. My ZYX has the silver base plate, BTW.
After CES, and at Frank's suggestion, I tried to see if 18 grams was the upper limit for the Universe. I increased it by employing the optional brass cartridge carrier to add 5 more grams (total mass of 23 grams). This slowed things down.
Perhaps 12-15 is truly the magic spot for the Universe? Unfortunately, I don't have a Jacaranda or Bocote version to play with, but Dmailer's Jacaranda arm / Universe combination would point toward this (15 grams) being the true upper limit for optimum performance.
Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier |
Thom, I may be completely butchering which model Schroder you were using. I thought that only the DPS had the VTF wheel on the back of the weight but I admit that I'm not really familiar with the differences in Frank's arms.
Doug, leave Nick alone, dammit! :) |
It's my humble opinion that of the 4 permutations we wanted to listen to on Saturday, the one we didn't get to (Triplanar/ Universe) is the best combination for the Universe. Please see my comments below about mass matching caveats, and the fact that my Ebony Schröder Reference has an 18 gram effective mass.
Everything I've heard tells me that the attributes of the Triplanar and Universe is a match made in heaven. Given that no component is perfect, I'd say that both Triplanar and Dynavector are slightly stronger in "incisiveness factor", while Schröder and ZYX are slightly more about tone color.
Now, the ZYX is fast, and the Dynavectors have tone, so don't take the above comment to the extreme. Realize that this is a broad, sweeping generalization as all 4 products perform to a very high level.
Only when you listen side by side will you hear a difference and will you come to a preference.
I don't know what went on at Chris' house, but I suspect that his Edgarhorns played a significant role in the different results.
I speak from experience of both of the Edgarhorns as well as of my soon to depart Exemplar horns. Before switching to my new Azzolina Audio horns, I would have considered the Edgars/Exemplars to have a correct presentation. Every other cone driver based, front-loaded horn has had tubby colorations. Not so with the Azzolinas, but I digress. Again, we're talking about 3 speaker systems that perform to the level of the arms and cartridges in question, but having said that, this is all about small but significant differences.
Rather than take a side trip into this topic, I think that this worth a rant on my Rants Page - the perilous journey into low power triodes and horns. To quote someone I once used to correspond with: "it's a long and dangerous journey ... bring plenty of milk and cookies".
So ... once again, the poor audiophile is in system matching hell - given the inherent flaws in any transducer (be it a cartridge or a speaker). If it were only more simple, we could make global proclamations. Forums like this give us the opportunity to triangulate on combinations that make magic.
Now that I have what I consider to be speakers that lend a slightly more even hand to the music, I am beginning to ponder whether an 18 gram Ebony Schröder Reference is a bit too heavy for the Universe. My ZYX has the silver base plate, BTW.
After CES, and at Frank's suggestion, I tried to see if 18 grams was the upper limit for the Universe. I increased it by employing the optional brass cartridge carrier to add 5 more grams (total mass of 23 grams). This slowed things down.
Perhaps 12-15 is truly the magic spot for the Universe? Unfortunately, I don't have a Jacaranda or Bocote version to play with, but Dmailer's Jacaranda arm / Universe combination would point toward this (15 grams) being the true upper limit for optimum performance.
Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier |
