The 5 stages of making a bad audio purchase

Being an audiophile you will make mistakes on our purchases, why it’s important to audition for free, Ive been an audiophile for maybe good 25 yrs, I usually makes mistakes, when I get too excited of what Iam hearing, at the end it’s only changed not improvement, I do well on my purchase when I am more patience, waiting for cables and components to settle and completely burn in, that’s what reviewers does, I listen listen listen to my system to really familiarize it.So I will know if indeed worth keeping any gear I Am auditioning, Doug Schroeder once mentioned, the most import part of the system is the audiophile, knowledgeable Audiophile knows what they want, and mostl of them they have good train ears.

I haven't heard any "best" system, but I have heard a lot of very good systems. They all had qualities I liked, but where one excelled in one area, others excelled in other areas.

When I am on my death bed, though, there is one thing I am absolutely certain of. When I look back on life, having an audio system better than 99.9% of the population will not even make it into the top 10 of things I was grateful for. Music perhaps, it certainly makes life worth living. Having shared musical events with people I care about, almost definitely. Having developed products that have helped people enjoy life through music, quite likely. But having a super awesome stereo ... I doubt it.

It’s actually a journey without a destination. One issue I see a lot is that many audiophiles don’t know where the sound of their system lies in the overall curve of sound quality. Maybe they think they’re 5% from Audio Perfection so they give up. Your mental image of HiFi perfection is only as good as the best system you’ve heard. 

"Back to the topic.....Is it the Journey or the Destination that matters."

For me it's the destination... and everyone's destination may be different. 

Problem is you won't know you're "there"... until you have "arrived".

Step 13

After getting lost in the rabbit hole you find yourself thoroughly frustrated... sell everything... and start from scratch.

( not my experience )

fleschler,
We had started to briefly talk about doors for sound-proofed rooms on another thread. It was identified as a difficult point. Can you detail a little bit more about your doors?  Are they off the shelf or custom manufactured?   How is the door frame built to enable the swing of the 17" depth?

The King’s New Clothes. You can paint a donkey different colors but it’s still a donkey. 

@glupson My listening room cost about $155-165,000. It has 16" thick, acoustically engineered walls per AcousticFields designer with activated carbon filtering, a 3000 psi 12" thick steel reinforced slab, 2 ton low noise HVAC, dedicated power panel with 10 circuits with 10 gauge wiring, 90 oz. plush carpet, 3/4" cherry paneling. Synergistic Research blue duplexes for audio gear. The interior walls are set on a 12" plate with 1" MDF, 1/8" Acoustiblok vinyl sheathing, 3/4" MDF, 3X12 studs, alternating 2X12 and 4X12 full height blocking, sandwiched in the 2X12s are 4’ X 12.6" four 4" thick chambered carbon filters, 4" thick insulation, all interior joints sprayed with flexseal (20 cans), then the cherry plywood. The ceiling has fire-rated industrial lighting. Ceiling suspended and side wall mounted absorption panels. The ceiling could not accommodate the load (2X8s), so there is 4’+ thick roll insulation above the built-up ceiling. The two doors are 6’8" (800 lbs) and 8’ (1000 lbs) high and 17" thick, built identically to the interior walls.

NO bass traps needed. The room is tuned to 25 Hz low frequency flat and designed to accommodate 6 - 12" woofers without overhang. That’s why my room cost $500/sq. ft. But it is worth it!

P.S. Which record did you purchase?

"...mimicking the high experienced from heroin, meth, alcohol and cocaine."

Do they all work the same way? They all have some bad effect afterwards. Does music mimic that, too?

"...I can tell you 100 percent that a high end Audio system can nearly cure these disorders."

"Nearly cure"? You mean "temporary relief of symptoms"?

"My listening room cost exceeded $500/sq. ft."

What the heck is that? It is silly.

My bathroom can beat up your listening room.

I did recently buy a record remastered by Kevin Gray. If you see him, tell him there is a satisfied customer out there.

geoffkait has made many interesting and educational audiophile posts which I appreciate.  Then he goes off on I'm right and you're wrong attitude which is shear arrogance.  I've had much worse trolls that put me down on a personal, race and religion basis. 

Headphone listening has it's place and is a substitute for a dedicated listening room.  I prefer listening with dynamic music in the room rather than close to my eardrums.  I also like to feel the bass/air movement if it's present.  Since I am a part time mastering engineer for the aforementioned symphony, chamber group and many choirs, I depend on a good set of headphones since I don't have a mastering studio to work in.  

AES stalker alert 🚨Mods, do your duty!

fleschler,

geoff is just baiting you to validate his existence. He is a classic troll, and the best way to deal with them is to starve them.

Oh, please! See? That’s exactly what I’m talking about. Definition of an expert - someone who used to be a drip under pressure. You’ve been following the wrong, you know.....

🐑 🐑 🐑

My circle of friends include Kevin Gray, Steve Hoffman, Robert Pincus-all well known remastering engineers. Maybe you hate their work-most people don’t. Other musician long time friends include a conductor Noreen Green of a private symphony whose members consist of top LA Symphony and Hollywood studio musicians, Viklarbo Chamber Group headed by Maria Newman (you know Alfred Newman’s daughter), many opera singers and my large coterie of singers and instrumentalists. I really doubt you have as deep and broad a connection to music as I have. Too bad, you should get out more.

I doubt you share listening to music using headphones. You are a "know it all" type person.  Anyone who states that they haven't been wrong since 1985 is an arrogant fool. 
I am an intellectual without all the answers, curious and learning all the time.

Stalker alert! 🚨 

He hasn't been right either.

There’s no need to raise your voice. It’s all about knowledge, Fleschler. Knowledge is what’s left after you subtract out all the things you forgot from school. “My system sounds fabulous!” That’s gold, Jerry, gold!” 🤗

Besides, I haven’t been wrong since 1985. You have just gotten used to all the distortion, that’s all. You might consider expanding your circle of friends a little bit.

YOU ARE SOOOOO WRONG!!! I have a custom built listening room with ONLY the equipment I use to hear music. I have two book libraries, a separate custom shelving room housing the music collection which I actively listen to and a Tuff-Shed with the same custom made shelving for another 5,000 78s and LPs. My listening room cost exceeded $500/sq. ft. Friends homes have similar and higher cost listening rooms. Frank and Robert already know how great my system sounded compared to nearly all the systems heard at shows and audio salons. There is NO way that my excess equipment, music library or anything else interferes with the listening room.  My room is seen in this video prior to completion.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=49&v=vUg7Xd16ifA&feature=emb_logo

However, my cable manufacturing friend has a truly crappy room with a tube TV between his speakers, glass side wall, 8’ ceilings, long wall mounted system, CDs and LPs stacked and walled behind the speakers.yet his system sounds fabulous without deep bass (heard, not felt), possibly due to his 5" mid-woofers being too small and the room dimensions.

I’m sorry to inform you guys but it’s actually a viscous cycle, it’s also a negative reinforcement, that causing all the problems. The equipment itself degrades the sound and the more CDs and LPs you accumulate the worse the sounds gets, all things being equal. If you don’t believe me and it would not surprise me if you don’t, try taking all your CDs and LPs and books entirely out of the house some time. Then listen to your system again without all the media in the house. Same goes for all unused audio stuff you may have lying around, amps, cables, power cords, it’s all very bad for the sound. I especially feel sorry for Fleshler who has a bazillion CDs and records. OMG 😲 No angry emails, please, I’m not making this up. I’m only trying to help. 

We are buying STEREO gear that costs as much as cars and homes!!! We are all ADDICTS!!!! The extreme high quality sound we hear from our stereo gear releases gross amounts of endorphins and brain chemicals mimicking the high experienced from heroin, meth, alcohol and cocaine. A research study was conducted at STANFORD University that showed elevation levels of dopamine equal to that of methamphetamine from listening to music. As well as blood pressure was reduced by as much as 20 points. I suffer from depression and anxiety and I can tell you 100 percent that a high end Audio system can nearly cure these disorders. 

No matter the topic on here...eventually the discussion goes sideways. Sometimes funny, sometimes sadly. BTW, IMHO YMMV so CBD, FWIW. 

I have made some purchasing mistakes in my time.  I remember an "audiophile" CD player which I bought for 40% off, the Muse Signature 9, somewhere around $2000 back in the 90s.  It was awful, cut off beginning and ending transients.  I guess I bought it because my analog would always beat CDs in the 80's and 90's.  Worse than my Sonys and Kyoceras. 
I bought speakers in the 80's and 90's that didn't suit my electronics but I sold them for minor losses.  Most recently I purchased some SR products which were more playthings than sound enhancements (I love SR duplex outlets, fuses and HFTs).  Got 80% of my purchase price back.   So, we all make mistakes along the way to building a great audio system.  My equipment is mostly 13 to 30 years old with only cables and tweaks which are recent purchases and my new DAC, the COS Engineering D2 as of yesterday.  
Yes, that expensive CD player purchase bugs me even today.

To EBM; I too have only made great purchases....that includes 5 sets of speakers, 3 receivers, 2 complete home theater systems and 2 amps sitting in my basement while 3 sets of speakers are on my main listening room rotation. They were such great purchases can’t bear to let em go.

to Tom6894; I agree system matching is critical....but I Like Vodka. Am I doomed never to get the most out of my system?

to Elliotn  ewcombjr; you pose the ultimate conundrum: if most home listening is done under the influence of some substance, then that is the only way to audition new equipment. But if you then buy that equipment:
- could someone question your purchase stating”what we’re you thinking, were you high?
- if you then listen to the purchase stone cold sober and it doesn’t sound great, will you forever be chasing that initial high?

I believe Internet window shopping for audio is probably a whole different psychosis best dealt with in another thread, that crosses over into this thread when you finally pull the trigger; often purely out of emotion, boredom, retail therapy, etc.
:-) :-)

Funny post!

But one of the steps that has yet to be addressed here is: Internet Window Shopping.

At what point does one go through this stage, or like myself, I am constantly in this stage no matter how content I am with my system.

Perusing EBay, Craigslist, Audiogon, USAudiomart, Audio Trader Asylum and Facebook groups for used audio gear.

There’s a reason they call it Audio Porn. My name is Lou and I’m an Audio Porn addict. When I get bored looking through ads, I’ll go to Pinterest to look at Audio gear and peoples stereo setups.

I can spend hours looking at images of audio gear and system set ups, because while it’s about the music, it’s also about the gear and how it looks in your room. That adds to the overall enjoyment of the hobby.

Part of the chase can be the most fun. I like really rare gear, the stuff no one else has, so I’m constantly on the lookout for it. Cause if you find it, you gotta strike while the iron is hot and buy it. 
I’ll keep my eye on EBay auctions or other ads and if I want something bad enough I’ll enter 30 or more bids in $1 increments on eBay, in order to dissuade the competition from bidding; thinking that, if others look at the auction and see 30 bids for something maybe they will think there is too much interest in it and won’t bid on it. I thought it was a clever idea at first, but the more experienced Ebayers will see right through my ruse :)

Anyone else share this affliction? If so, where are you on the AP scale. 1 being not so much, 10 being totally addicted to the hunt for used gear.

I wonder what Elizabeth Kubler Ross would think of this. 
As far as audio is concerned I have died 100 times. Usually, I don't even go for the 30%. I just throw it in the garbage rather than ruin someone else's day. (Ethics in Audio 101) But, the end result is I have the perfect system which means the rest of your's all (Alabama slang) is CRAP :)

@br3098 , 3/5ths of a mile in 10 seconds, J. Airplane....per your 10 per oz. *G*

Some things never change...;)
And when they do, often not for the better.
On the bright side, now it knocks one into the left field fence. *L*

My issue now is when 'my nose goes up like an infield fly', I'm regarded as some sort of very obscure narcotics officer....

...and I helped to establish 'their lifestyle'!  Punks.....*growl*

umrkretread, 
Life can be hard, but it's harder when you're poor. Now go away. 

+1 spinaker01

what a bunch of cry babies. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Moved_My_Cheese%3F
Why? Because the first step to fixing a problem is admitting you have one :-)

I thought the OP was worth a chuckle , With its take on Audiophilia Nervosa as refracted through Kubler -Ross.  Not sure why any one should find it offensive...

The bad purchases I made pushed me to learn more about what matters to get good sound, so I would say the journey leads you to the destination even if just the next destination.

FWIW
Back to the topic.....Is it the Journey or the Destination that matters.

I used to love smoking pot and listening to music. With the mean green that is so present now I dont really enjoy much of anything when I am high. We need to go back to the browns, golds and reds of yesteryear. If it aint grow outside it isnt worth a damn in my book.

jsautter, when I was in high school a lid... sorry, ounce of pot was $10.  $15 for the really good stuff.  In 1975 I was working part-time at the RSL store in Van Nuys and spending every dollar I made on dope, concert tickets and Luxman gear.  The good old days...

Quite obviously a 12-step program will not suffice for this particular addiction...

And for what it's worth, I'm amused and yes, even a bit surprised, that anyone could make a conflict/flame-session about this particular topic. That takes real effort.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to sell my 2nd kidney for cash so I can get a new DAC.

based on their simplistic renderings - and their clamoring to be treated as "adults" suggests that they aren’t.

LOL; while, sadly, superciliousness is lost as a word in common usage, good to see you haven't lost yours Curtis.

iv'e had some failures but i think it made me make better decisions later. now i know that if a component is described as having very fast bass it means there's no bass. if something has lots of resolution and detail...it's bright as fu*#. even sounding or flat means dull ,exciting means ear piercing. i understand why people make those mistakes it's very difficult to get synergy throwing together arbitrary components .it's almost impossible to know which components are good in the first place and after that how to pair them. even the traditional market leading companies have bad products at any price point so you can trust no one but yourself. it's a matter of luck, making good decisions and luck.  

Say no more...well.said.

I spent 10 bucks on my SONY WALKMAN CD Player, 10 bucks on my SONY MDR v700 Headphones 🎧 which are fabulous by the way, so as you can imagine I have ZERO buyer’s remorse for my system. I do have a little tiny bit of buyer’s remorse for all the tweaks in my room, however. I estimate there must be at least a few grand tied up in tweaks. Oh, well, that’s the way it goes sometime.

I like to pretend that that’s exactly what they want my loose change for, so they can finally power up their CH Precision preamp with that long-coveted Odin power cable....

This thread is hilarious. I wonder what your local homeless/hobo (you know you have some out there, somewhere nearby) would think of a $5k interconnect?
Har har

Nope, we can't even agree to this. According to some, who seem to have a delusion, people that understand the technical aspects of audio  couldn't possibly just listen to and enjoy music :-)

asvjerry704 posts11-07-2019 1:24am
At least, at the end of the day, we do agree on one thing:
We like music.

"The more you realize nothing makes sense, it begins to make sense."

@elliottbnewcombjr, The warp & weft of this forum (esp. the 'warp factor' ;;;)) *L*) has been amusing enough, at least to me. *G*

Starting with 'buyer's remorse, segway to drugs 'n alcohol and the use of for 'enhancement'/'blunting'.  Followed by a tad of minor review of the + 'n - of That, which has existed since the species found that bad grain, certain sorts of smoke or veggies made one 'different'....

'Bell curve' stuff again.  What some find amusing, others go dead serious about or *yawn*.  Seemingly endless scraps over cable X vs.(insert letter Here), speakers, amps, spaces, places to (or not) to purchase from...

At least, at the end of the day, we do agree on one thing:
We like music.  It evokes various responses in each and all that we like.
How we do so...there's the rub.  Love it, hate it, like it, leave it.  Seems to apply to nearly everything 'umans' do...or don't. *L*

*End of PSA*
*snicker*G*

Were those cartoons not based on GK and MG?
🤔🤔

Sometimes all I want is to find a bit of humor here.

There are some people who are very funny here.

Remember the cartoons in Stereophile?

everybody here needs to go outside and get some air...