PhD the pic up are not bad , I leave the guitar the way it is , any mods on guitars in my opinion, degrades it . Not original ,anymore I have Gibson’s already, sorry for going off topic.
Unbelievable
Yamaha really made this statement:
Glossy black piano finish provides improved signal-to-noise performance
https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/speaker_systems/ns-5000/index.html
I thought I would seek opportunity to hear these speakers, but now I do not think so
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All I know is that lacquer is important to piano manufacturers, as its use is correlated to the hammer stiffness/density and consequently the sound character we call brilliance. The lacquer/varnish used by Stradivari is the main reason why his violins can not be replicated. How does it translate to the loudspeakers I have no idea. I remember though that piano lacquer and glue were mentioned in relation to the discontinued Bosendorfer speakers which were rather special. It may depend on design. If Yamaha use the "sounding board" principle employed by that Bosendorfer, then the glossy lacquer will definitely affect the sound. If the cabinet is damped, then it does not matter whatsoever. |
I'm a little late to this party and many of you are not likely to see my post but for those that do here is something to consider. You can make fun of Yamaha for the reference to a glossy black piano finish but how do you reconcile that with the documentation on Stradivarius instruments which employed a unique varnish that contributes to the quality of the sound? A varnish that cannot be duplicated today was used to produce the best instruments ever. |
I'm a huge fan of Yamaha products and still own a Yamaha surround sound HTR 5760 receiver from the early 2000's. High current, Top Art equals best possible parts and sounds very good in stereo as well but doesn't do HDMI but i don't care about that. Well enough small talk, I do think you should give these speakers a try as you might be very impressed. |
eisen0169, Thanks for that, it was a pleasure to read such an informative post! It just confirms that when these giant corporations such as JVC, Pioneer, Sony, Yamaha etc really put their minds to it, it's often well worth having a closer look. Especially their loudspeakers. asvjerry, Lincoln Walsh and his interesting designs seem to have somehow become forgotten by the audio world. The new Ohm Walsh speakers (2000/3000) are near the top of my 'must hear' wish list - once the shows can start up again. |
"Unfortunately the day of a boxless point source full range loudspeaker still seems quite a long way off - "... ....yeah, 'boxless' is the hard part. Even the Ohm F's & A's had their base cabinets, and certainly had their issues.....the new ones' as well... Funny how 'point source' never seems to go hand-in-hand with 'omni'.... |
"check out www.kyronaudio.com.au and look up the Gaia. Full range, no box."Maybe you have to paint the room differently. http://www.kyronaudio.com.au/gaia.html |
None of the worldwide reviews on the NS-5000 mention the effect of the finish as improving the signal to noise ratio, just that the finish improves cabinet rigidity. With the introduction of the speakers to the US, Yamaha I believe changed this copy on all of its worldwide market websites and something got lost in translation. Yamaha paid great attention to the cabinet construction to dampen even micro vibrations. Aside from the overall construction and novel internal damping mechanisms, the company employed FEM analysis and according to one review, a "laser vibroscope" (actually I believe this is a Doppler laser vibrometer). What Yamaha explained to one reviewer is that it believes, which apparently its measurements confirm, is that the 1.2mm thick piano finish dampens micro vibrations better than veneer, just as the birch plywood obviously performs better than MDF. As an example of attention to detail, the company experienced some early problems with the Hokkaido birch plywood not acclimating properly to the humid climate of Indonesia, where the speakers are manufactured. That problem was solved by adjusting the moisture content of the plywood during the manufacturing process in the Hokkaido mill. While it is impossible to state with total accuracy, and while Yamaha employs skilled labor, the national minimum wage in Indonesia is less than a tenth of what it is in Japan or the USA. Yamaha priced the NS-5000 in a highly competitive price point. One can only imagine the economies of scale they realized by manufacturing in Indonesia and what these speakers may have cost if created by a smaller manufacturer, if that were even possible considering they took 8 years to develop and apparently were afforded virtually unlimited resources. That's for a loudspeaker that as another review noted, is really a studio quality monitor disguised as a consumer product. |
On the surface, this appears to be a gross claim. However a surprising number of individual aspects of the design of an audio component have an impact upon how that design sounds. Materials used in the construction of a speaker cabinet can and do have an audible impact. The finish of the cabinet can and does have an audible impact. In fact, it was documented that different wood species and surface finishes did in fact have an affect the sonic qualities of the LS3/5a. While something may have lost in translation, don't knock till you tried it so to speak. |
I was skeptical about these speakers. I also ignore the marketing hype from the manufacture. Let's face it the majority of Yamaha's market is not audiophiles. That being said I heard these at my friends house with Parasound Amp and preamp. These speakers sound unbelievable!!!! I own Wilson, Dynaudio Elac and B&W 805N . This is not a comparison. If you are interested in these I would recommend finding a dealer that would allow you to take these home for a listen. The price tag seems high because they are Yamaha. Once again In my opinion and about three other of my friends these speakers sound fantastic. |
C37 lacquer audiophile anti vibration paint for speaker cabinets, speaker diaphragms, capacitors, wire, printed circuit boards, etc. Works like a champ! 🥊 POW! http://www.ennemoser.com/eundf.html |
I thought this sounded preposterous at first. But since Yamaha makes very good musical instruments, I tend to respect them. Just speculation, but if these speaker cabinets are fabricated with wood, the paint finish might be some sort of epoxy or high strength material, that stiffens or damps the wood. Being a DIY woodworker, I have experienced that some of my painted projects seem to take on a better structural situation after painting. Just a thought! |
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bikerbw, Yes, tone and decay are one reason what makes old guitars and violins so sought after. You sometimes see guitars used which have had most of their lacquer scratched off. In a loudspeaker, the cabinet also contributes to tone and decay - despite the best efforts of most designers to stop it (ok possibly barring exotic designs such as the $165,000 Arrakis reviewed by Robert Harley or the KEF Blade). It would be interesting for tuning purposes if you could somehow separate the drive unit sound from the cabinet sound. In a poorly designed cabinet the walls can even effectively become transparent at certain frequencies due to resonance. So you might actually hear more of the box sound than the drivers sound! Definitely not good. On the other hand a few designers have decided that since you can’t beat it, you might as well join it. So they have attempted to actually incorporate the cabinet sound with the drive unit sound. I think Bosendorfer tried this previously and UK designer Russell Kauffman does currently. http://www.russellk.co.uk/index.php# |
On a totally unrelated subject, nitrocellulose finishes on guitars are sought after as opposed to poly finishes, and are preferred by some artists for the idea that they let the wood "breathe". So some finishes can have certain characteristics attributed to them, but for a speaker where the cabinet is supposed to be sonically transparent, I think they're reaching a bit with their claims. |
Those who can swallow this kind of nonsense from Yamaha marketing people can go and buy
Machina Dynamica's Teleportation Tweak, it ranks the same :) http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina60.htm |
Audio Machina (no relation to your humble scribe) builds speaker cabinets from solid billets of aluminum and Rockport is no slouch at speaker cabinet building, applying shipbuilding engineering principles to speaker cabinetry. The Rockport Hyperion tips the scales at 500 lbs per side. That’s a lot of inertia, gentle readers. Speaking of Robert Harley, the best stereo system he ever heard is..... https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/the-best-stereo-system-ive-ever-heard-1/ |
Some comments can easily compete for award in utmost nonsense: " All six external surfaces of the enclosure have a glossy black piano finish created using the same dedicated paint, primer, and polishing processes used for Yamaha’s renowned grand pianos. The uniform and hard membrane further increases the overall rigidity of the enclosure, and at the same time it suppresses fine vibrations, contributing to the bright sound and significantly enhanced signal-to-noise performance." |
"Given what audiophiles do believe, is this really a surprising statement?"I would like not to, and in general do not, believe in such claims. But I do run into a problem. There is a product that sounds fine, any product but you could use these Yamaha speakers as an example. Someone designed and produced it way better than I could ever dream of. That person claims something this "outrageous" and I want to dismiss it. Well, if that person is just making things up, snake-oiling it, why on Earth does her/his product sound good then? She/he may know a thing or two about designing/making it that I do not. So I give up beating the truth out of it. I give some benefit of the doubt to the designer/manufacturer and just use the product as intended. In the end, why would I even care if it is the paint or not? |
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