I have heard the Totem mani-2 sig with a aprox 100watt integrated amp and they sounded fine to me. Not sure why you would need so many watts to drive them.
Most brands don't even make 500watt amps that are half way affordable. |
I just answered your email as well but what are you attempting to do? In your email you mention 200v. You can switch from 120v to 220v or back again by changing the wiring "harness" between the inlet and power supply. No soldering involved. Very simple. Just not sure if the 220v setting is safe to run on 200v. Best to check with Plinius or maybe someone else on A'gon can advise. |
I see here is the owners Plinius 9200.U me such a question. Is there a possibility of 120 volt version of the remake, or switch, inside a 220 volt without replacing the power supply? |
Hey...I am amazed that any tube amp can do them justice, because of the enormous power needed to drive the deadly combination of 3-4 ohm/83db efficiency issue. I thought this too until I plugged my Manis into my Tad 60 tube amp. In addition, I had it switched to Triode mode (27 w/c). While it won't blow the doors down with Rock music, it sounds amazing and wonderful with any music that has a lot of mids-highs. As far as loading your room - try a subwoofer with your Manis. I use a Rel Storm III with mine. Crossover is set at 30hz and it integrates beautifully. You don't know the sub is in the room, but the room is fully "loaded". . |
Mani-2 on Totem four pillar stands, here.
SimAudio Moon W-6 monoblocks (425 watts @ 8 ohms) wired with double run Kimber 8TC.
They really sound wonderful. I've always lusted over Aerial 10Ts, though, so I sit listen and wonder. Bass is fast and deep- just doesn't load my room. Waiting on a good pair of Rosewood 10Ts to land in my lap one day.
. |
Hey...I am amazed that any tube amp can do them justice, because of the enormous power needed to drive the deadly combination of 3-4 ohm/83db efficiency issue. I'm going to look into Music Reference....I don't know the company. Thanks for the info. Gerard |
Hey Glukeman:
Thanks for the comments. It’s good to be excited about something you’re passionate about. Your post was actually very timely in that I was in the market for a new preamp to replace my Audio Research SP16. I considered DeHavilland but never had an opportunity to listen to one. I ended up buying the Conrad Johnson CT 6. It’s still in transit but I’m looking forward to hearing it in my set-up. I have to tell you though that in my medium size room (about 15’x22’) my Mani’s driven by Music Reference RM10 tube amps sound glorious!! |
Hey...Another late response...sorry. Mani Signature's have a better top end than the straight Mani. When I bought them right from Totem, Vince felt that he had taken the design about as far as it could go, at least in this box. Indeed, they are the best stand-mount speaker I have ever heard. Remember...the stability of your amp is as important as power; my 100 watt PS Audio doubles to 200 with great stability into the Mani...plenty of power for a medium-sized room. The preamp is even more crucial. I upgraded from an AES-Signature to a DeHavilland UltraVerve. Sound is a bit better, yes....but it is the 6sn7 tubes that really do it. The best home sound I have heard. I cannot say enough about what 6sn7's can do for these speakers. Mind-blowing. The Mani's exploit everything that is amazing about Octal tubes....the big tone, eye-opening detail, bass...holy shoot. A complete experience. Go solid-state amp, tube preamp and you will be amazed. I promise. Buy good NOS tubes and do some tube rolling...the Mani's will reward what great tube sound is all about. Do I sound excited? Cool. |
Raduray, I have the Totem (4-pillar) stands with my Mani-2's. Personally, I think they look great, & match perfectly with the look of the speakers. I also have a pair of Osiris stands--they are excellent stands too, but the Mani's are larger than the top plates of the Osiris stands, so I didn't feel the speakers were as secure on them.
But the Osiris stands are sought after; & I keep mine to use with whatever smaller bookshelf speakers I own. Just my 2 cents, |
Thanks Jaffeassc. I scored a pair of Osiri stands on A'gon last night. They may not be as heavy as some of the massive four pillar stands, but I'm hoping, based on what I've been reading, that they'll do fine. They certainly are better looking. |
I use the Plateau 4 pillar stands for my Mani’s. They’re actually carryovers from my Model 1’s so I can’t comment on the virtues of any other stands with the Mani’s. The Plateau stands did however make a big difference with the Model 1’s as compared to some other lighter weight single post stands. The Plateau’s are also close to the stands that Totem sold/recommends (or sells if you can still get them) for use with their speakers. Generally speaking I think a heavy 4 pillar stand filled with sand or shot will be much better sonically than the single post metal (or wood) stands that depending on your taste may be aesthetically more appealing. Regarding the Velcro for the speaker grills, I used grills for a while on my Model 1’s and then took them off. No problem at all removing the glue residue from the speaker cabinet and a little teak oil and they look as good as new. I think you’ll find that the speakers sound better with the grills off but you’ll have to be the judge of that.
Congrat’s on the Mani’s. They are really great speakers. |
After reading this, and other threads here and elsewhere, I just picked up a pair of used Mani-2 Sigs off the A'gon classifieds. Should arrive next week.
I'll be driving them with a Rotel 1068 pre-pro and a B&K 200.7 amplifier. As I only have a 5.1 system, I'll be able to bi-amp by assigning 2 channels to each Mani, each channel having 385W into 4ohm. I shouldn't have any power problems.
I do have several questions.
Need stands. I've located Plateau V and Target MR24/60 at just under three hundred. Atlantis Reference 24 is a hundred more and the XL is another hundred. But I'm not crazy about the boxy appearance of the 4-pillar designs. Are there more esthetic versions available, or would I be sacrificing significant performance if I went to something like a Sanus MU-24?
I'd like grilles for protection, when I'm not into critical listening. How do you attach the optional grilles? I think I read somewhere that it'd done with velcro. Wouldn't the adhesive on the velcro pad damage the finish?
Gonna need a center. The Model 1 Signature Center seems to make most sense at first glance, but am wondering if there are any other suggestions.
Thanks! |
Bdgregory, thanks. I've never heard the standard Mani's. I bought the Sigs because from reading about Totems it always seems like the newer versions are an improvement. I think there are archived threads about the standard Mani's vs the Sigs on one of the "other" audio sites.....
If you see a nice set of Sigs at a good price, to me, It would be tempting. Mine are in Maple, & with the Totem stands, they also look great, IMO. Altho, I did pay a lot for almost-new ones, I haven't regretted it. |
congrat's Steve - did you have a chance to compare the Sig's to the standard Mani's? I've had my Mani's for over a year now. Every upgrade and tweak I do to my rig just shows how great these are. I bought mine used, and they are an earlier vintage, so I'm now thinking about upgrading to the Sig's.
Is anyone else out there familiar with the improvements the Sig's bring? |
There should be a website just for Mani 2 fans. Since my last post I got my pair of Mani 2 Sigs. with the Totem stands. Awesome speakers: In their price range, esp. used, I'm sure there are other excellent choices, but I can't imagine being unhappy with these. I'm using a C-J MF2500A 240wpc SS power amp; a great combo IMO....... |
Audire Otez - I think he retired but he is still building some amps if ya call him. May be my next amp. |
Too bad about the wife thing, but I can definitely relate. It would have been interesting though to have heard your opinion of the ARC tube amp/Mani combo. I actually auditioned the ARC VS110 with the Mani’s but I liked the Music Reference combo better. In fact, now that I think about it I also auditioned the Mani’s with the Ayre V5 and it was probably my favorite SS amp of the lot next to Plinius. But after 30+ years of being a SS guy, I think I’ll stick with tubes for now. Although I must say that 30 day money back guarantee that Bel Canto is offering sure sounds tempting. Happy listening. |
Unfortunately, I sold the tube amp last week. My wife was getting on my case about having it sit in the living room unused for the past month, and I knew it was going to be at least a few weeks before the Mani-2's were broken in, so I chose the most peaceful domestic option :)
I'll be taking the Mani's over to a friend's house soon to try them in his awkward room, and he has an Ayre system with their VX-5 power amp.
Given how effortlessly and cleanly my Mani's are being driven to very high volumes right now, I say try the ref1000 - if you don't like them you can always sell them. |
Wow! Sounds like you're a happy camper! You've almost convinced me to give them a try as well. I seem to remember from another thread that we both posted on that you also have an ARC tube amp. Have you tried the tube amp with the Mani's yet? I'd be interested in your impressions of that match up as well. Enjoy the Mani's! |
After thinking about all the systems I've heard now that I've thrown out a superlative, the only other system in my memory that is in this league is ATC Active 100's (which are massive beasts with zero WAF) with a Linn cdp and Dynavector pre. The ref1000/Mani-2 combination matches that in dynamics and presence, but not in scale. Again, the ref1000/Mani-2 combination is about half the price of the ATC. |
Got the Mani-2's today. They're everything I loved about the Hawks (clear, fast, tight, lifelike) but even more so. The bass isn't amazing, but (1) I have them on some wimpy Target stands as Totem is backordered on the T4L stands and (2) I haven't spent any time positioning them, which Vince warned me is ESSENTIAL with the Mani-2. They're not supposed to be a speaker you can set down anywhere and have them sound good, which is true of most of the rest of his designs.
They absolutely disappear in the room, go stunningly loud with superb clarity, and are probably the most musical speaker I've ever heard, period. A Classe/Levinson/B&W 800D combination I once heard in a highly treated room still is my ideal reference, but what I currently have now with the brand spanking new Mani's is a very close second without any tweaking, without any break-in, and AT WELL UNDER HALF THE PRICE.
So, as you can tell, I'm a now a massive fan of the Bel Canto ref1000/Mani-2 Signature combination. There's really something to be said for just forgetting about whether or not you have enough power for the Mani's at 100-200W and feeding them 1000W. Class-D detractors need to hear this combination before saying anything else negative.
For the record, here's what else I'm using:
- Wavelength Cosecant USB DAC (ECC86 tube)
+ Cardas Golden Reference 0.5m RCA
- Audio Research LS25mk2 (2x 6H30 tubes)
+ Totem Urth Power Cord
+ Cardas Golden Reference 1.0m XLR
- Bel Canto ref1000
+ Cardas Golden Reference Power Cords
+ Totem Biwire 12' speaker cable
No power conditioning, but plugged into a Totem Urth power block. I also have a VPI Scout that needs to be set up properly before I can try some LP's, but I'm itching. Anyone near Bellevue 98006 want to trade me a Scout setup for a good bottle of wine? |
Ghunter, I’ll be interested in your impressions once you have a chance to listen to the Bel Canto/Mani combo. It seems that the general consensus is still high power solid state amplification for the Mani’s. As I mentioned earlier I’m using the Music Reference RM10 MKII tube amps to drive my Mani’s. And yes, I did buy a second one and now run them in mono block (about 70 wpc). Again for my listening habits (about a 90 - 95db peak is loud for me) the RM10’s do fine. I will say that the extra 3db of head room that I got by adding the 2nd amp does come in handy sometimes, for example this weekend when I was listening to the Pink Floyd Pulse DVD, but I still have a hard time grasping why you need those mega watts. How loud do you guys listen? Anybody else out there using tubes with the Mani’s?
BTW Glukeman, I’m also interested in what improvements you hear with the Mani Signatures. The Mani’s are definitely keepers for me but I’m considering trading in my “originals” for the Signatures. |
My Mani-2 Sigs arrive this week, and I'm planning on driving them with a pair of Bel Canto ref1000 amps. They should be putting out 1000W at 4ohms, and are stable enough to handle the M2S load at all frequencies.
My Hawks sound AMAZING with the ref1000's, and I can't wait to plug in the Manis. |
Hey...I know this a bit late. I have the Mani 2 Signature's, which are extraordinary. I drive them with an AE-3 DJH preamp and a new PS Audio GCA 100. The combination is extraordinay. However, the speakers are very sensitive to the quaility of the tubes. The 6sn7 tubes in the AE-3 are outstanding tubes....I like the Sylvania Bad Boys, Tung Sol Round Plates, and CBS Hytron. Brimar are also good. I sold my RCA Red Base because they sounded flat and uninvolving. The rectifier in the preamp also makes a difference. Use an EZ 81 over an EZ 80. mullard is excellent in this combo, though I am generally not a Mullard guy. the Telefunken EZ 80 is disappointing (Tele did not make an EZ 81). This system is among the best I have heard anywhere. I highly recommend a good tube preamp/solid state amp combo for the Mani 2's. And the Signature's are a surprising and major improvement to the already good Mani 2. |
Assuming you do not have a very large room and listen at ear-bleed levels the CJ 2500 should drive the Mani’s quite well. As I mentioned before, I had an opportunity to listen to the Mani’s with several different types and power levels of application. I found that 200 watts of a high current SS amp did a very nice job and at least for my tastes was more than enough power. Enjoy the Mani’s and let us know how the CJ 2500 works out. |
from what I've read about the MF2500, you'll have plenty of power. |
I just ordered a pr. of (slightly used) Mani-2 Sigs. with the Totem stands; don't have them yet. I'll be using them with a C-J MF2500A 250wpc amp. I find it interesting that several people here have used or heard Mani-2's with C-J amps & really liked the sound.
I'm a little worried about whether the MF2500 will have enough power to drive the Mani-2's, altho I used that amp with B&W Matrix 802's (known for being real power hogs), & those speakers sounded wonderful with it.
I went thru 4 or 5 amps with the 802's until I finally found an amp that made them "come alive", & that was the MF2500 (hope it does the same thing for the Mani-2's!). |
Likewise, I do not have grills for the Mani's but I do have grills for my Model 1's and Mites. I have never done a serious comparison with the grills on and off but there does seem to be somewhat of a "muffling" effect with the grills on. |
I use them on my Sttafs, not on my Mani-2's (don't have any for them). I don't notice a material degradation in sonics, and it gives me peace of mind when the house cleaner is around. |
I've never seen a picture of Totem speakers with the optional grill and might have read that Vince does not like them. This might be sacrilege to ask, but do any of you use the optional grills with the Mani-2 Sig? If you've done a comparision do they noticeably degrade the sound? Thank You! |
Note that upcoming UHF #76 will revisit and review the Totem Mani 2s, apparently alongside an interview with the designer, Vince Bruzzese. For those lucky owners amongst you, nothing more fun than a really positive review of something you already own. |
Thanks for your input Marc. I would have loved to have heard the Mani 2/CJ combo. I bet it was out of this world. I’ve been meaning to update my thread so you have given me the incentive to post again.
Since my last post I ended up buying a used pair of Mani’s here on A’gon. I’ve had them now for about 3 weeks and I’ve been listening to them pretty much non-stop ever since. First let me say that they are every bit as wonderful as I remembered them and just fill the room with beautiful music. I would also say that for my room, my preferred volume levels, and my types of music (jazz, new age, and some rock) the Plinius 9100 drives them exceptionally well and to exceptionally loud levels (at least to my ears). But as you may have gathered from my previous posts I was just itching for an excuse to buy a new amp. So for the first week that I had them, I pretty much schlepped them all over town auditioning amps. Upon the advice of a fellow Audiogoner (thanks again Tumbler) I was particularly interested in hearing the Mani’s paired with tube gear. I auditioned them with Mac, both SS and tube, ARC both SS and tube, Plinius 9200 and separates, Music Reference, and Musical Fidelity. What I found was that the Mani’s sound just wonderful with tube gear, which seems to reinforces Marc’s comments about the CJ gear (I’m assuming the amps were tube as well). Since this is my first exposure to tubes, I must also say that I was somewhat taken back by just how wonderful they sounded with “small” tube amps given what I had always heard regarding the mega watts you need to drive these puppies. What I’m here to tell you, at least in my opinion, is that you don’t need a lot of power to do justice to the Mani’s.
Well what did I end up with you ask. Well before you start laughing so loud you can’t finish reading my post please bear with me a little longer. I ended up with tubes as you could have guessed. But what may be hard to grasp is that I ended up buying the Music Reference RM-10 MKII. It's just a little bitty amp, a mere 14 lbs. and puts out 35 watts per side (bridgeable to 70w). But it’s just an engaging little amp, very musical, warm, involving, dynamic but delicate, with a huge sound stage, all the buzz words! Does it really have enough power to run the Man’s? Well in my case I think I does, but the verdict is still out. Worst case, I'll buy another one and bridge them. I might also add that the price of these amps is under $2k new. No, not cheap, but compared to some of the other stuff I listened to it’s a bargain. I might also add that I picked up a used Audio Research SP16L here on A’gon to mate up with the RM-10, which really helps the sound stage, imaging and bass, yes I said bass, which is really quite amazing when you think about that fact that it’s only 35 watts driving the Mani’s. I think it’s also a very good match with Music Reference. And yes its tube bass, which I’ve also come to find that I prefer to SS bass. And again I listened to some BIG SS amps.
So what’s the moral of the story? I guess there are really two points that I’m trying to make here: (1) IMO you don’t need mega watts to drive the Mani’s to reasonably loud levels; and (2) if you own a pair of Mani’s you really owe it to yourself to listen to them with some quality tube gear. You might just be amazed! |
I attended the March 2006 hifi show in Montreal and the best room by far, in my book was the one with a set of Totem Mani-2 driven by Conrad Johnson Preamp (the new CT5) & 2 CJ amps and Chord transport and DAC. Simply out of this world ! I did not dare ask the price of the entire set-up but the Mani-2s really shone. |
Thank you both for the information on the stands. Just one more thing that's on the list. It's funny how you tell yourself "well this is all I need to give me the sonic bliss I've been searching for all these years" and then even before you get the speakers you're already thinking about a new amp, new speakers stands...gee I wonder is my speaker wires are good enough! |
The Marble stands are available through Fine Audio in Courtenay,Harold is the owner. They Range from 700.00 to 1000.00. I got a deal on mine as I got them from the guy who made them as they were sitting in his living room. Harold has a pair of White Marble ones in stock right now that are beautiful. I think they are 750.00 if I remember correctly. You can contact Harold at http://www.fineaudio.net/
or the guy who makes them is Franco Ciomo 250-338-5765. |
I run my M2s with the May Audio stands that were made for them. Sand filled. Spiked through the carpet. hard to find them now. Perhaps Totem can give you a lead on them. They are a perfect fit for the M2s |
Telemarc, just re-read my last post and other than the typo's (sorry about that), just so there’s no confusion, I was asking for more information on the person that made the stands. |
Wow! If I had to guess I would have said twice that. My son lives in Seattle. I you don't mind giving me a litte more specific info, I'd like him to check them out the next time he's on the island. |
The stands were mads by a local guy on Vancouver Island and cost 600.00 dollars canadian. |
Currently I have 24” Plateau V series stands (4 post stands that are similar to Totem’s). They’re good and heavy and filled with sand and do a good job with my Model 1’s. So I guess I’ll start there. I have learned that stands make a HUGE difference so I may look at the Totem T4L stands (or other alternatives) down the road. Those solid marble stands that Telemarc is using sure look interesting, but I hate to think what they cost! Telemarc, if you're still on board, maybe you could give us a little more info. For that matter the T4L’s are pretty expensive as well. Seems like that would be a good topic for another thread.
Tumbler, I’m glad to hear that you’ve had good success with “low” powered amps. I’ve never gone the tube route, at least in amplification, but I’ve considered it many times. I have a Velodyne DD12 sub that I currently use with my Model 1’s so I’ll have that to play around with too. It’s crossed over at about 90Hz with my Model 1’s but I’m thinking that I’ll have to go a lot lower with the Mani’s. Maybe around 30Hz. Any thoughts? |
I have owned the M2s for some years now, and have enjoyed them with different amps. A pair of Cary 300Bs was magical although at low levels. Read SF's review of the M2s and their comments on the Cary match. I also enjoyed the Pass Aleph 5. Now I am running a McIntosh MC-275-IV and couldn't be happier. I supplement them with a REL Stadium III and its a great combination. Plenty of power. |
congrat's! what stands are you using with them? |
Well I did the deed...I bought the Mani's...so now I'll have the opportunity to find out for myself. Thanks everyone very much for your input. Can't wait for the fun to start. |
A blast from the past! I heard one of the Audire's years ago, not sure which one but it could have been the Otez. In any event, I'm sure it would do very well with the Mani's. My recollection is that they sound similar to Plinius. Are they still in business? |
Kind of an offbeat recommendation - Audire Otez will drive and control those speakers like very few others. |
Thanks for the clarification. I misspoke. What I should have said was standard biamping using the 9100 for the mids and highs and the P8 for the bass. Still need to find out about the gain and rise time of the two amps. I've sent a inquiry to Plinius and I'm awaiting a reply. |
one clarification on the biamping. I asked Totem about vertical vs horizontal biamping. Below is their reply. Also notice their reply to my question about driving them with one CJ MF2100. The primary consideration if you biamp with your Plinius is wheather the sensitivity of the outboard amp matches that of the inboard. I would think you'll want to set up in horizontal biamp in any event. If the sensitivity isn't identical, you may be able to attenuate using pots.
==================
Hi Brad,
you have mentioned bi-amping your units
would this be done with 2 identical amplifiers ?
external amplifiers are not necessary as the internal crossover supports
this format
(on all our products)
It is important to remove the jumpers if you wish to experiment with
bi-amping
generally we have found the best results to be:
1) the more powerful amplifier of the two to power both speakers woofer
portion
(the bottom two terminal on each speaker)
2) the smaller amplifier to power the tweeter section
(the top two terminals)
we generally we don't recommend "vertical" bi amping due to the fact that
most amplifiers are not "identical" and will cause small discrepancies
between the two channels (even if they are the same model) different
production dates can yield slightly different variants
the Cj unit in question should yield very good results with strong power
delivery and very stable current into low impedance
take care,
TOTEM
================ |
No apology required Bdgregory. Your posts are very much appreciated and informative. I think what I’m beginning to get from this thread (and probably already knew) is that more is better with the Mani’s, but that I can get satisfactory results with my 9100 at least to start. In that regard your comment that “you effectively get a new set of speakers without having bought any” when you do upgrade your amp is an interesting analogy. My challenge in that regard is that if I do get the Mani’s how long I could wait until I got the upgrade bug again. But then I guess that’s what this hobby is all about. The bi-amp option using the 9100 and say the Plinius P8 is also something that I am looking into. I’m not sure if the gain of the two is compatible in a vertical bi-amp mode. If it is, it could be a very natural progression to follow.
Please let us know how your tweaking goes this weekend. Can’t wait to see what you’re planning for an on core!! |
Sorry Jaffeassc, Let me address your original question with respect to my paragraphs above, and also try to answer your last question.
First - when driving the Mani-2 with 100 w/c, they sounded great. Would I buy them based on what I heard? yes. I was very happy with the results on one MF2100. Incidentally, I had driven them with an old Bedini 100/100 that I have in my other room too. It's pure class A and IMO did a little better job of controlling the bass. One Key point about the Watt rating - the CJ MF2100 is rated at 100 w/c at 8 ohms. I don't know what it's current capabilities are or its power rating at 4 ohms. Same for the Bedini.
As for the B&K M200s - they are rated 200 w/c at 8 ohms, and are current generators. 150 amps p/p, so you get the full 400 watts at 4 ohms. That's the power rating I referred to, and I assume Baroque also referred to.
So, I think the message for you is this, I think the 9100 will give you nice results, actually excellent results for now. When you're ready to upgrade to a new power amp, you effectively get a new set of speakers without having bought any. Finally - the Mani-2 just begs for Bi-amping. A nice upgrade path would be to get an outboard power amp to drive the bass, and drive the M/T with you inboard amps.
As for what I hear now - keeping in mind that what I heard before was pretty phenomenal compared to other speakers I have or have had, including - Totem Sttaf, and GMA Europas, Von Schweikert VR3s.
I hear much more control, precision, and resolution of tones. The bass is tighter than I could imagine. The mids and treble are crystal clear. This opens up the soundstage. Instruments are more pinpointed in 3 dimensions. These are all things I would have said existed previously, but now it's just more. |
Bdgregory, my last post was just before I read this and was primarily directed to answering Grakesh’s question. Whoa is right!!! We seem to be going in the opposite direction of what I was hoping to hear, but can you please tell us what you are now hearing with 800w vs. what you heard with ONLY 400w. BTW do you just keep a bunch of spare amps hanging around just in case? |
