BTW, I appreciated your input on this thread- big help. The new platter is great! |
I am glad it all worked out for you. |
FINAL UPDATE:
I was able to exchange the defect* platter for the standard platter.
ARE THERE TWO VERSIONS?
Yes, the manufacture did screw up a batch of platters, VPI felt it was not of sonic concern and sold them. The correct version has a ~ 0.2 mm recess which comes with a solid rubber mat versus the defect platter which has ~ 1.0 mm riser and comes with a soft waffle mat.
BIGGEST CONCERN?
When I purchased this TT, I put on a copy of Cream's Disraeli Gears and had to immediately take it off due to a solid warp of the vinyl. While disappointing not a big deal. However, even new vinyl has some warping that the raised platter and clamp would not even out. As a result the tone-arm always had a good bit of vertical deflection. This was never a concern on the Project Carbon with a clamp (and that drove me CRAZY).
COMPARISON:
First: It has been 12 days from the old to new platter so a direct comparison is not possible. However with the standard platter, you can either use a mat or no mat. The defect platter requires the use of the waffle mat.
After a couple of records, I prefer no mat versus the rubber mat provided (it also creates a nice vacuum on the record). While this is a personal preference, having the option is the bonus.
Second: Due to the turning on the spindle of the defect platter, the clamp would bottom out before it could really clamp down on the record (see above). FYI: If you do have this platter, I used two pieces of cardboard placed on top of the record to help clamp the record.
RECOMMENDATION:
Figuring this out was a stupid hassle but worth it. If you have the raised platter and can return it, DO IT! I just cannot find any value in a raised center and am not sure what VPI liked about it in the first place? Just watching my tone-arm not bounce is worth it.
Thanks to everyone who provided valuable feedback!!! I just found a used copy of The Afghan Whig's Gentlemen at the record store, so I am out of here....
*Defect Platter:
VPI stated that Harry liked the defect platter with the waffle mat and decided to keep it, but then went back to the standard platter on the next batch, so while it was a mistake, VPI liked the result. |
What platter does the Traveller have?
I saw one at a dealer last week and the inner label recession was raised. |
So the bottoms line is that (1) VPI has some platters manufactured, (2) the platters were improperly made with a raised middle instead of a recessed middle, and (3) to fix the problem, a mat is used with the platters with the raised middle? |
Correct Stringreen, and I have perhaps "jumped the gun", in that although I browsed over this thread, there may be some things I have missed, or may not be aware of?
A friend I talked to about this yesterday brought up some good points.
Firstly, I'm assuming this Table was bought new from a VPI Dealer, correct? As my friend mentioned, the customer should be addressing any concerns to the Dealer first, and letting the dealer find out what is what?
Is there also a possibility that there's another Table in the VPI Line that uses such a different Platter, and could it then be just a simple issue of that a wrong Platter was packed with the said Table?
Before I went into some rant, and not fully knowing what is what here, and maybe incorrectly assuming things at face value, VPI from the past has never seemed to be one to shy away from stepping up and backing their products. That if a manufacturing mistake was made, VPI would no doubt make the customer whole if it was a mistake they made.
I wish to keep an eye on this thread, to see what is eventually finally found, and whether this is a newer modified design, or was an error on the Platter?
Mark |
...no Mark....those platter should be melted down and redone correctly, not sold at all. |
Everyone makes mistakes..some take responsibility for them and do their best to make things right...VPI is one of those. I strongly suggest everyone with platters that seem to be made wrong to contact VPI and I am quite sure that a replacement will be shortly in the mail...(a very easy replacement). |
Why did VPI build Classic turntables with the wrong platter. This is madness and shows a complete lack of QC.
Raised centre vs normal recess is a BIG deal as it affects the way the vinyl sits interfaces with the platter. I have never seen any turntable from any other manufacturer that has raised centre.
abp689, you need to immediately ask for a replacement correctly spec's platter.
Hmmmm |
Seems to me the question I had, and other remarks have been addressed.
And it appears that VPI passed off a grave machining mistake onto unspecting customers, and for no small change either.
This sounds quite pathetic on their part, and I welcome somebody like Harry himself to chime in, to elaborate how, and why such a costly fubar to customers was ever then perpetrated?
Shame on you folks! Sounds to me, that VPI is in worse shape that the first day of their inception, and creation.
Those Platters should be sold as "rejects", for $100/ea for those who want them, not on a $3K and up turntable! |
Markd51, no, the platter in question is identical to all previous Classic platters with the exception of having a raised middle as appose to label recess. |
Emailed forwarded to me from Matt W. There was actually a supplier mistake for a short period of time, there is suppose to be a recess for the album label but for a short period of time there were some platter made with the raised center and a different mat was used on those. |
So, this new table that does not come with a recess at the center of the platter, does it still then come with a threaded spindle, and a screw down clamp that is cupped on the underside?
If so, this then truly sounds like a hodge podge of an incorrect parts mix strewn together which are then not compatible with one another?
Mark |
Brf: I have no idea what's going on. I spoke to Jack at VPI twice and he consulted with someone else there and stated the raised platter is correct. I also called a distributor who said they'd have another classic and the platter is raised.
I might try calling one more distributor and get a final confirmation. At this point, it seems like the platter is a matter of the draw?! If they confirm it is raised, I'm going to leave it. I'll update with any additional info... |
Hey Abp689, since you are the only one with a raised centre Classic platter, did you ever get re-confirmation from VPI?
I would be anxious to find out if I had the latest/newest design or a manufacturing defect. |
VPI is always experimenting...and I applaud that. Black shrink wrap eliminates some undesirable resonance that may be present in a particular cartridge and is transferred down the tube...minimal sound difference if any... |
Stringreen ... is there more to VPI's changes to the Classic (i.e., moving the motor left and rear, and prettying-up the button) than aesthetics? Another change is the Classic 3 black shrink tube on the wand. Wonder if that does anything, other than look good. |
I do believe that the classic platters definitely benefit from the periphery ring. I don't have one, but it is obvious to me that the record would lay flatter on the platter with that ring on it. |
Mine is also the ceramic coated one....in case you're wondering, the ceramic coated and without the coating sounds the same, however, the ceramic coating eliminates the fingerprints and looks better. I don't use a washer, just the anti-static mat which sounds the same as the static one,..and use the periphery ring, and the center weight. |
I have the new Classic Ceramic coated platter. It does indeed have a shallow label sized indentation on it. The platter is totally flat, except for this depression.
I have found that the rubber mat does nothing for the sound. I use the one piece clamp, but found that it does not work properly with the mat. Without the mat the record edge tends to rise a bit when the clam is applied. Makes sense since the clamp is pushing the center of the record down into the shallow depression.
Best for me is to use the rubber washer and put the clamp on lightly (not too tight). |
The rubber mat that gets static attractive to the record when you lift the record off of the platter has been replaced by a non-attractive rubber mat. |
Bif....lets see now.... if indeed there is a change to having the spindle area raised, that would mean that with the outer ring and center weight applied, there would be greater tension on the record...more downward force. ..may be a good idea. I suppose if its a gradual slope, and the record plays well, its fine. If its more than a gradual slope, and that azimuth is affected, I would question it. I find that proper azimuth makes a marked difference for the better. Isn't splitting the proverbial hair fun? I would guess that the sound isn't much different..like the black wrap, or the change from a 9 inch to 10.5 inch arm. |
I just purchased the classic 1 month ago. Could there have been a manufacturing change? That's the million dollar question! |
I received my new Classic 2 on Dec 6, 2013 and the platter has the recessed center to accommodate the label, not raised whatsoever. This is the latest version with motor/pulley mounted rear left and silver push on/off button front left on top of plinth. |
Hi all, I just bought a scout 1.1, it indeed has a raised center portion which is roughly label size. It is intended to be used with the included rubber mat according to my conversations with VPI. I have a relatively inexpensive cork mat with a label recess installed upside down on the platter and it sounds great. I just hated that rubber mat getting static filled and then sticking to the record when removed. From my understanding the classic platter, a future upgrade? is intended to be used mat less and has a milled out portion for the label. I intend to do some critical listening comparisons between the stock and cork mat but have been having too much fun listening to records so far to bother. I will update when I do. |
To add to Bifwynne's clarifying questions: how old is your rig? I just purchased the classic 1 month ago. Could there have been a manufacturing change? |
So String ..., if someone's platter is elevated as described above, does that sound like a manufacturing defect? Any thoughts or views about the sonic impact of the black shrink wrap VPI is using on the Classic 3 stainless steel wand? |
The classic platter has a depression in its center....it looks like it would accommodate the label of a record. I tried with and without the rubber mat...the rubber mat wins for me. Without it the sound is too - errrr metallic |
Yeah, I understood, I was not serious there either prince, the platter is properly installed :-)
BRF: I am not talking about the washer. From the center spindle is about 5 cm radius (label) which is raised about 1 mm above the rest of the outer platter. With the washer, the center (label) is raised about 3mm above the outer outer platter. I felt pretty confident after talking with Jack at VPI that this is correct, but now, I've got no idea.
Guess I will have to put on a new copy of Miles and Monk at Newport (mono!), open a cold beer, and think about this one some more. |
Abp689, are sure you are not talking about the centre being raised when "using" the supplied rubber washer which is meant to be used with a reflex clamp??? |
I was half-joking, but given the confusion I figured I'd ask. I know Jack, and I'm sure that he would know his product, so the conflicting answers indicate some confusion in the communications. Simple way for you to check would be to lift up the platter and check the other side, I guess. |
Reprince, Not really if it's upside down or not. I will call the factory and get back to you. |
Very confusing. You sure you don't have the platter upside down? :^) |
Just put any straight edge on the platter and you should know immediately |
I mentioned his communication to you BRF. At first he said it was recessed, I said mine was raised 2 mm in center. He then said, correct. It is raised.?.
Second stringreen to decide the win here. It's getting exciting. |
Stringreen ... please straighten us out here. |
Summary:
The OP has a platter with a raised center.
Jack Rubison at VPI says it doesn't, then he tells someone else it does, then he tells Brf it doesn't.
Are things OK with VPI these days? |
Interesting, 2 different answers from the same person. In his response to
me he indicated that the Classic platter has not changed, which would
indicate a recessed label. Could it be that he is answering your question
with the assumption that centre washer is being utilized in addition to a
screw down clamp? Having a raised centre does not make any sense.
Here is Jack's email confirmation.
On Jan 20, 2014, at 10:35 AM, VPI Sales
wrote:
That is correct.
Jack
To: VPI Sales
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2014 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: Classic Platter
Thanks Jack, so there has been no change to the Classic platter as mine
has the label recess and is completely flat.
From: VPI Sales
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 07:00:19 -0800 (PST)
ReplyTo: VPI Sales
Subject: Re: Classic Platter
It is the opposite, the center is depressed. You can place the record directly
on the platter or use a mat.
Best regards,
Jack Rubinson
To: "sales@vpiindustries.com"
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2014 9:53 AM
Subject: Classic Platter
Hello, has VPI redesigned their Classic platter? I read on a forum that the
new Classic platter has a slightly raised centre and is meant to be used
with a mat.
Any details would be appreciated.
|
Brf: I just spoke with Jack at VPI. He stated that the center portion of the classic platter is raised (he went back and checked).
Maybe there is some confusion because some of vpi platters are recessed? |
BRF: who did you talk with at VPI? Question: Hello, has VPI redesigned their Classic platter? I read on a forum that the new Classic platter has a slightly raised centre and is meant to be used with a mat. Any details would be appreciated. Aanswer: It is the opposite, the center is depressed. You can place the record directly on the platter or use a mat. Best regards, Jack R |
BRF: who did you talk with at VPI? |
Something is wrong. Just got confirmation from VPI that the Classic platter has NOT changed. The Classic platter continues to have a label recess and the platter is 100% flat. |
The Scott 1.1 has a steppped surface and is designed to be used with a mat, are you sure that Jack didn't get the two tables mixed up??? |
Hey ... I'm still waiting for Stringreen. Where are you buddy? Your the guy with all the VPI news that's fit to report. |
Agree with Sarcher30. This new direction in platter design seems curious indeed. Well, I'm standing pat with my basic Classic platter. I think using the center spindle clamp and outer ring clamp do a fine job and I'm just enjoying the music.
Just picked up some Jerry Lee Lewis LPs. Wow ... that Southern Boy knew how to rock. Love the New Orleans accent too. |
Sorry, I meant center clamp. I am thinking about grabbing the outer ring clamp, I agree, I think that will resolve the warped disc. |
That's strange. When I had my Classic 1 with the previous aluminum platter, the VPI outer ring worked pretty well on warps. I'm not sure why the new platter with the rubber donut would be different. How tall is the donut? Maybe it needs a little more height so the label recesses more? How heavy is the ring clamp? Are you using the center clamp or weight as well? The VPI ring clamp I had was a good 4 pounds and flattened most records pretty well. |
Correct. With no mat, there is a 2 mm gap between the platter and vinyl so no vinyl touches the platter (excluding label).
I think it sounds very good (not sure what it would sound like directly on the platter); however, I do not find the ring clamp does much to even out slight to sever warps. |
Does that mean that the clamp has changed as well?
For years VPI touted the benefits of the 1/4-20 thread on the spindle to mate with the clamping hold down system that they developed. |
Wow. That seems like a poor decision on VPI's part. IME rubber mats suck. It makes no sense to raise the middle section so you have to use their rubber mat. Now if you want to use an aftermarket mat, it has to go on top of the rubber one. Or if you like the sound better directly on the aluminum platter, that is not even an option now. |
