A few weeks ago, I created a post where I was asking for advice to help a family friend create a home office system on a $6-7K budget. He ended up buying a VTL I-85 integrated amp which he really loves. After searching for speakers, he really liked my Harbeth M30.1s. He eventually bought my speakers but was going to pay in October. Unfortunately, he has had some unexpected expenses and won’t be able to pay me. So the speakers will be back in my possession next weekend.
The problem is that during this time, I started researching my next set of speakers. Of course, a safe bet was to stick with what I know and buy another pair of 30.1s whenever they pop up in the used market. Now that I will be getting them back, I’m still wrestling with the idea whether I should try something different. At this time, I’m only looking to buy used and not spend much more than what I can sell the 30.1s for. And to be honest, I will only be switching for the sake of trying a new flavor. I really like the 30.1s and something tells me that I might come to regret the decision. This speaker does pretty much everything right for my tastes and music preferences. Okay, if you put a gun to my head and force to me to share just one thing I wish was better, it would be a more airy presentation and little bit more open on the top. But otherwise, it’s hard to find fault with this speaker.
My room is 12 x 13 with almost 20 foot ceilings. Just like my friend, I’m limited on positioning options -- I can only pull out the speakers from the front wall by a foot at most. Another restriction (spousal commandment) is that I have to sell the 30.1s first to obtain the funds for the next purchase. So I won’t be able to buy something else, compare, and resell the one I don’t like as much. Secondly, I only want to buy used and well-known brands. The idea is that whenever the next upgrade itch strikes, I should be able to sell the speakers without losing more than 10-15%. And the final (whew!) restriction is that I have to be able to drive them with a tube integrated amp. I’m planning to buy a Qualiton a20i next month. This is the smaller brother for a50i which I also own.
So what do you guys think? Is this an ill-conceived, wrong-headed idea? Feel free to talk me out of it :)
If not, I would love to hear from people who have moved from 30.1s to another speaker in similar (or lesser) price range and are happy with their decision. An obvious next step is to move up to 30.2, but I’m not sure if it’s worth paying an extra $1000 or so. Or maybe it is that much better? C7ES3 is another option, but I fear it might be a little too much on the warm/lush side with difficult to tame bass especially when placed so close to the wall.
Another speaker I would love to try is the Fritz Carrera BE, but again I don’t want to buy new and I don’t see them in the used market that often. I know they have a 30-day return policy but that’s not the point. Knowing myself, I would probably end up selling them after a year or two, and don’t want to take the depreciation hit.
Proac Response D2 is another option, but I fear that it might be too forward for my taste, especially in a smaller room. If someone owns one and disagree, please chime in :)
Any of the M40s are better than any of the M30s/SLH5s/C7s etc.
It’s a timeless design that did very very little wrong to begin with.
The reason why the BBC designed/influenced speakers (Falcon, Graham, Harbeth, PMC, Spendor, etc) remain in production some 50 years later is because, within their working parameters, they fundamentally do very little wrong.
The larger models simply have a larger scope to demonstrate this inherent correctness. They might not be to everyone’s taste but the original BBC science and methodology behind them has never been refuted.
The BBC research papers are still available online and must have inspired many designers.
Yes, Harbeth, Spendor and Graham are going to have some cousin-family resemblances, and as with Harbeth there are going to be some differences in iterations of a given model. I'm very intrigued by the Spendor Classic 1/2. It is now like a miniature Classic 100. Previously iterations, SP 1/2, 1/2E, 1/2R, etc. were configures like the H. SHL5. But now the Classic 1/2 is a conventional 3-day with tweeter, mid, and woofer. There are some nice reviews of the Classic 1/2 out there--take a look.
In summary, the bass of the Parker Duo is superior to the Duke 2 and SHL5+. The 30.1 is far behind.
The Marten has a 9" passive radiator on the back which may not play well in your space. The 30.x is a monitor and is never going to have a lot of bass by design.
Thanks for the post. Your response is surely useful, no further information on the Marten is required.
Apologies to OP for the thread hijack. I’ll make it short.
Three hours with the Parker Duo at the dealer, impressive. When I was at the Harbeth dealer, I think I spent about an hour listening to the SHL5+ and another hour or so on the M30.2 before I placed an order for the 5s. It’s surprising to hear that the Parker Duo sounded underwhelming at lower volumes. I have no issues with low level listening with the Duke 2(spec is rather similar to Parker Duo).
The Parker Duo should have much better bass performance than the M30.1/30.2. Although the Duke 2 is a smaller speaker in comparison to SHL5+ I actually find the Marten to go lower in the bass. On paper the Dukes go down to 38Hz while the SHL5+ only go down to 40Hz. The Parker Duo goes even lower down to 36Hz, perhaps with the help from the passive radiators. In summary, the bass of the Parker Duo is superior to the Duke 2 and SHL5+. The 30.1 is far behind.
I am glad we share the same observation on strength of the Harbeth. It’s really a strong trait where many higher end speakers fail to match.
In an effort to avoid hijacking the thread, I'll be brief, but you can PM me if you'd like to discuss the Marten in more detail.
I did not listen to the other models that you mentioned, mainly because I spent ~three hours with the Parker, and didn't want to impose on the dealer any further, at least that particular day.
The dealer is sophisticated, and likes Marten very much. He paired it with an Accuphase E-480. My impressions were largely very positive, but with one important qualification: I found the Parker to be underwhelming at lower volumes. It changed dramatically at more "realistic" levels, and was able to strut its stuff. Surely a very high-class stand-mounted monitor under those conditions, but for those who like to listen at lower volumes, they may fall short.
Not surprisingly, I found the Parker to be able to disappear more completely than the Harbeth, and their ability to reproduce bass was more visceral and impressive. I thought that the sound was well balanced, and, as you suggest, detail retrieval was excellent, and I was listening through the ceramic, rather than (much more expensive) diamond tweeter.
With funk and soul, I found the Parker to be superior, and, interestingly, it produced more pleasing sound from an older Warner Brothers Tower of Power CD that I brought specifically because it is an early '70s pop recording, and has limitations.
I agree completely about the human voice, though, and believe that it is Harbeth's greatest strength.
If you can pick up a 2nd hand pair of Shahinian Obelisk 2’s, you won’t be disappointed. I’ve had C7 XD and M30.2 XD, not a patch on the clarity you can get with the Obelisks.
... but your room is limited, so i would consider top tier smaller proac floor standers, or same from joseph audio, or the fritz carrera be w/ sub (gotta pay to play... 🤷♂️)
Whipsaw, how did you find the Marten Parker Duo? Did you manage to listen to the Oscar Duo and Duke 2? The Parker Duo is the top-of-the-range standmount in the Marten line of speakers so I would expect it to sound better than the other two models, but I’m not sure how is the sound different.
I own both Harbeth SHL5+ and Marten Duke 2. Both have their own sets of strength and weakness, both good. I use different amps to drive the Harbeth and Marten as they are rather selective in matching (they sound off driven by the wrong amps).
Having listened to the 30.1 and 30.2 at the dealers several years ago, the things they do well, they truly excel. The Marten or any other speaker will undoubtedly offer something different. Better, is subjective and dependent on the listeners’ preference and expectation. Personally I find the Marten to show higher refinement, nuance and fine detail than the Harbeth in general which I presume is typical of quality high end designs(obviously I don’t regard Harbeth to be in that group although it’s fairly high quality). The sound quality is different in the way music is presented. FWIW I still find human voice to sound more like the real thing on the Harbeth although it’s a fairly close affair.
A Harbeth M30.1 owner on the Naim manufacturer forum moved to Dynaudio Contour 20 as he found the 30.1 to sound too polite. He was happy with the change.
Good luck. Sounds like a real hard one. All my speaker changes have been large steps up. In other audio choices I have not had good luck with lateral moves. They then to be unsatisfying mixed bags of changes.
I am going to take you up on the offer to talk you out of it. Given all that you have shared my advice is to stick with the M-30s. Not my favorite Harbeth but you have enjoyed them and unless you are prepared to open your wallet more than you imply I’d say sit tight on speakers and think about inexpensive ways to get more out of them. It would help if we knew more about the rest of your system to see where performance gains might be available.
@audiothesis -- I would love to visit your showroom once you get the Pienza's back. The only issue is that they seem to be much higher priced than what I can afford right now. Second, I would prefer to buy used so in the event I decide to sell them after a few years, I won't lose much. That's one reason I love buying Harbeth as a matter of fact. They trade like currency in the used market.
However, I'm still intrigued by Rosso Florentino as a brand and don't mind checking out what the fuss is all about :)
Thanks for recommending Neat and Spendor. Neat is a brand I'm not aware of at all, but I doubt I will find anything on the used market.
Spendor is a good suggestion and they do come up in the used market every now and then. @twoleftears any idea how they compare to the Harbeth sound? One would assume they sound more alike than different, since they share the BBC lineage.
@yogiboy I hear you, man. And it is quite possible that I might just end up keeping the 30.1s after all. I mean I really, really like the speakers. BTW how do they compare to C7s? If you had to choose between the two, which one would you keep?
You're local to me. Come hear the Rosso FIorentino Pienza and Fiesole. The Pienza are currently at Part Time Audiophile for a review but they will be back at my house on October 16 for an audio meet. Maybe its an ideal time for you to come out?
If you like the M30.1s so much why not keep them and tell your friend to find a speaker ? Why would you take a chance buying another speaker that you might not like and then have to sell them? BTW, I have owned the M30.1 and the C7!
Coincidentally, I am on the cusp of probably upgrading from my 30.1 speakers. To be clear, I do like them quite a bit, and they sound excellent in my system, but I will be moving to home with a larger (though not very big) listening space, and am also very close to upgrading my amp.
The other reason for the likely change is that my musical tastes are eclectic, and while some (e.g. jazz, vocals, small classic ensembles, etc.) suit the 30.1 very well, others, such as soul and funk, my first loves, do not. So, while I would prefer to stay with a stand-mounted speaker, I would prefer one that would be more versatile, without losing too much (if any) of the mid-range magic that makes Harbeth so attractive.
I expect that some in my position might be inclined to step up to the HL5+, but I'm more likely to try something outside of the Harbeth family.
I auditioned the Marten Parker Duo recently, and will soon be doing the same with the Triangle Magellan Duetto, and (German) Fink Team Kim. They are all quite expensive, so I doubt that the OP will consider them, but they are very high-quality speakers that should fit the basic criteria that I am seeking.
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